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Looking for a way to merge 2 Schneider 60-150
- Thread starter latinhawk
- Start date
C&K
New Member
We have four Schneider MPPT60-150's all charging the same battery, so I am quite familiar with them. They cannot be switched from one battery bank to another without a quite complicated procedure involving first disconnecting the PV arrays from both. They are powered from the battery DC side, so disconnecting the battery DC power will shut the controllers down. Reconnecting will re-boot the controllers and then the settings in them have to be changed for the new battery bank before reconnecting the PV arrays, or they won't exit absorb stage at the correct current and/or time.
The better option is to combine your two battery banks, even the number of panels out on the two controllers, and network them with Xanbus so they work together as a single 120A charge controller.
The better option is to combine your two battery banks, even the number of panels out on the two controllers, and network them with Xanbus so they work together as a single 120A charge controller.
C&K
New Member
Thanks. However, I can't merge the battery banks because one is AGM and the other is lithium.
Ah, that presents a little problem. I'm afraid if the panels can't be evened out between the two. the only idea I can come up with is to put in a switching network between the solar combiners and controllers, disconnect the PV arrays and switch the arrays from one controller to the other. That way they stay powered up and don't have to change settings in them, just switch the input power instead. You would probably have to design a switching network yourself, as I know of no such thing available commercially.
Most controllers including the Schneider units will be fatally damaged by disconnecting battery with p.v. input.
Do not under any circumstances disconnect battery with any solar input.
I use Midnight classic controllers and have a short trick, Remove P.V. Input, press the forced sweep button, disconnect battery.
By doing this “forced sweep” you will cause the MPP portion of the controller to drain all the power from the front end circuitry. This can be seen by the P.V. input voltage going to zero. Now it is safe to disconnect battery.
The problem with just disconnecting the battery results in the front end of the controller has an amout of power in the internal capacitors which now has no where to go. This power will fatally damage the controller.
I have seen this kind of damage on Victron 30/100 controller, Midnight Kid, Morningstar MPPT 60 amp controllers , EP solar and a few others
Do not under any circumstances disconnect battery with any solar input.
I use Midnight classic controllers and have a short trick, Remove P.V. Input, press the forced sweep button, disconnect battery.
By doing this “forced sweep” you will cause the MPP portion of the controller to drain all the power from the front end circuitry. This can be seen by the P.V. input voltage going to zero. Now it is safe to disconnect battery.
The problem with just disconnecting the battery results in the front end of the controller has an amout of power in the internal capacitors which now has no where to go. This power will fatally damage the controller.
I have seen this kind of damage on Victron 30/100 controller, Midnight Kid, Morningstar MPPT 60 amp controllers , EP solar and a few others
Right now I have switch the change from one bank to the other. I turn off the breakers from the panels and go to the neutral position of the switch whith the house connected. I then switch to the other bank and turn on the breakers that go to the panels.
Good move but....... There are many capacitors in the front end of a mppt controller which store power. These have enough power to damage the controller if there is no place to dump that power. I do not own an Outback but seeing that the same crew that designed the Outback moved on and started Midnight I can see that the design is very similar.
There is no point is leaving a good design but rather improve on it. I do believe that there are many similarities between the Outback and the Midnight Classic. Maybe there is no forced sweep on the Outback but if you disconnect solar input you should be able to see input (solar) voltage and let this bleed off before disconnecting batteries. Without forced sweep on the Classic 150’s the capacitors will drain down in several minutes as the input voltage is lost and the controller will try to sweep the panels and will dump that power to the batteries
Adding this small step would be beneficial to the Outback controller
OK question for you....what is the voltage and amp-hour capacities of your battery banks and what do you use them to power.
I have 4 banks batteries, 2 FLA at 426 a.h. (not exactly matched...1 Rolls Surette house lignting set and one traction motor set) each charged by one Classic 150 (never paralleled except for large loads) (normal household and shop loads) plus 2 LFP banks at 200 a.h. (emergency and clean medical power.) ( these are exact match and are normally used in parallel) charged by 2 Midnight Kid controllers
Becuase I am very close to that big pond...the pacific Ocean (biking distance) I often have pea soup fog, that is where the other controllers are used as often in season I will not see sun for extended periods and all banks are charging
There is no point is leaving a good design but rather improve on it. I do believe that there are many similarities between the Outback and the Midnight Classic. Maybe there is no forced sweep on the Outback but if you disconnect solar input you should be able to see input (solar) voltage and let this bleed off before disconnecting batteries. Without forced sweep on the Classic 150’s the capacitors will drain down in several minutes as the input voltage is lost and the controller will try to sweep the panels and will dump that power to the batteries
Adding this small step would be beneficial to the Outback controller
OK question for you....what is the voltage and amp-hour capacities of your battery banks and what do you use them to power.
I have 4 banks batteries, 2 FLA at 426 a.h. (not exactly matched...1 Rolls Surette house lignting set and one traction motor set) each charged by one Classic 150 (never paralleled except for large loads) (normal household and shop loads) plus 2 LFP banks at 200 a.h. (emergency and clean medical power.) ( these are exact match and are normally used in parallel) charged by 2 Midnight Kid controllers
Becuase I am very close to that big pond...the pacific Ocean (biking distance) I often have pea soup fog, that is where the other controllers are used as often in season I will not see sun for extended periods and all banks are charging
My original system is AGM 732ah. I then purchased 2 lifepo4 48v rack mounted. 2 more of the same batteries are on the way. The lithium batteries are 100ah 5kwh 48vdc.
I use them all to power my home. The idea is to on days where I'm unable to charge to be able to switch to the lithium bank to operate that day.
I use them all to power my home. The idea is to on days where I'm unable to charge to be able to switch to the lithium bank to operate that day.
C&K
New Member
I see, you have a primary battery and solar array, plus a backup battery with 3 solar panels on it just to maintain it. So you need to be able to switch the charging sources when the backup battery is in use.
I still think that switching the solar arrays from one controller to the other would be the best option. It's a simple matter of swapping four wires (the inputs to both controllers) from one to the other. I would imagine the panels are typical grid-tie panels with three in series, running at about 90-95V under load, around 120V open circuit, which would be the same as we have, except we have 40 of them on four MPPT 60's (250W panels). I wonder if Midnite Solar might make some DC switches rated for the appropriate voltage that you could use to make a switching system for the high voltage part? By simply swapping the arrays, the controllers are never disconnected from the low voltage (battery) DC power, so it should not harm the controllers in any way.
I think it would require four two-pole switches to make a switching system.
I still think that switching the solar arrays from one controller to the other would be the best option. It's a simple matter of swapping four wires (the inputs to both controllers) from one to the other. I would imagine the panels are typical grid-tie panels with three in series, running at about 90-95V under load, around 120V open circuit, which would be the same as we have, except we have 40 of them on four MPPT 60's (250W panels). I wonder if Midnite Solar might make some DC switches rated for the appropriate voltage that you could use to make a switching system for the high voltage part? By simply swapping the arrays, the controllers are never disconnected from the low voltage (battery) DC power, so it should not harm the controllers in any way.
I think it would require four two-pole switches to make a switching system.
