Mini Diesel Genset/DC charger

[Ohms_Cousin]

I posted this info in another thread but it was on the end of a long thread - so may well be missed by many. Reposting the info here so others get to see this info. I believe this small Hatz diesel genset to be very different to every other small genset I have seen.

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This seems to be a nice Diesel battery charger.

Hatz (German and very old well respected company) single cylinder with a Hatz designed and built 56v 100 amp *PMG* attached to the flywheel of the engine. J1939 CAN bus equipped from the factory.

There is a 24v version if thats your voltage with 2 different 24v units available - 24v / 100 amps and they have a 24v version that has *TWO* inverters attached to the 3 phase output of the PMG to give 200 amps at 24v (1 x 100 amp + 1 x 100 amp attached to the one engine)

They also do a 115v unit and a 230v /13amp unit with the same PMG setup. That is, the one AC unit can do either 115v **OR** 230v by adjusting jumpers on the unit. From the data sheet............

......Voltage output (Factory Setting) Volt out nom.: 230/115 Volt AC. Selectable by mean of JMP1..... - Seems to be very versatile and something I have never seen or heard of before on a genset.

Choice of engines - the 1B30E which is 347cc and the bigger 1B50E which is 517cc. Diesel usage listed as 1.2L per hour at 3/4 load on the bigger 1B50E

Here......... https://www.auroragenerators.com/product-page/battery-charging-dc-generator a US based manufacturer uses the same Hatz 1B30E engine but uses a different approach to generating the 56vdc. I prefer the PMG method built by Hatz myself as there are no external parts or belts to maintain over time.

Note the diminutive size of the 56v 100amp PMG unit....

Dimensions (mm) - 357 x 440 x 480
net-weight (kg) - approx. 71
packing dimensions (mm) - 570 x 570 x 820
gross-weight (kg) - approx. 82

Seems like a nice solution.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Lot of money for a 5kw generator.

Cheaper to get a Chargeverter and a portable Generator.

 

[DIYrich]

Interesting option. For $6,499 it rivals the Honda inverter in price. I didn't see the noise spec. I wonder which is better. Diesel does have the advantage of the fuel storing better. I wonder if there is a fuel cost advantage when you can buy diesel without taxes for non road use. Maybe home backup where house has heating oil. You can tap that to fuel the generator.

 

[Ohms_Cousin]

The local quote I am getting for the 1B50E with 56vdc PMG is approx $6K

Its not a terrible price for what it is.

It is very small and can fit into the hatch I have on my sugar scoop.

I was looking at building my own DC genset with a Yanmar 3 cylinder Diesel. It works out much more expensive then this. What is nice about this little guy is its all factory designed and built and has CANBUS onboard. It will be nice to have that CANBUS data from the DC genset on the N2K network on the boat.

I am not that interested in the Aurora version of it. I dont like the belt setup that drives the 3rd party alternator.

at 1.2L per hour fuel burn to pump around 4-4.5kW of 56 VDC power into the battery setup, I'll take it.

I think its a very interesting little genset. Posted the info here so that others are aware that it exists. It can solve some DC genset problems in a unique way.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

Don't know if I can afford this either, but the concept is neat ... looking through all the docs. Also, propane is the fuel of choice for my site ... but, I do have a diesel tractor, so can't avoid diesel altogether.

Being on a homestead, one of my rules is: something has to serve multiple uses. Tractor, in a pinch, can also drive PTO genset.

If you can buy an item for this task, but it can do one or more other tasks as well, it goes up in "utility" value, regardless of price.

 

[wholybee]

_Almost_ perfect. I would need a *small* generator ~1.5-2kW. But I rule out all of the small inverter generator types because I don't want to deal with gasoline, which adds a bunch of safety issues I don't have to deal with using diesel, and I already have diesel on my boat.

It looks like PMAC-120/6-1,5 based on the 1B30E engine might fit the requirements. One based on the 1B20E engine might be better but I don't see it. I also can't find a price.

 

[Ohms_Cousin]

As far as I can tell they only do the PMG on the 1B30E and the 1B50E.

These gensets solve two problems for me - keep everything diesel and they are small. Its difficult to find a small diesel genset much less one that has a PMG built into it.

Like others here, I want to keep my setup all diesel on the boat. I can feed the 1B50E (my preferred setup out of the two) from my main diesel tank.

The BIG thing about these gensets is the diminutive size. The hatch I have available is 980mm Long x 400mm wide x 600mm high. These gensets fit into that hatch space with ease. IIRC the length with PMG attached is 357mm long. Thats small for a diesel genset.

Another factor to me, but ymmv, is that it is CANBUS equipped from the factory - so no after market sensors/switches/black boxes to fit to it in order to get the engine and electric parameters onto the N2K BUSS.

Something else that jumps out at me from the fiPMG brochure - the PTO shaft is still available on the engine. I wonder if I could use that for running a hydraulic pump to run my dive compressor? When not using the PMG for charging batteries I could use the hydraulic setup to run the dive compressor.... interesting idea but not sure how to go about putting that together. Currently my compressor is driven by a Honda gas engine - which means carrying gas, and I want to get right away from carrying gas if I can.

Its interesting that one can turn down the power output if needed - The PMG doesn't have to be run at full output - it starts at 20% output and can be dialled up from there. That means very low fuel consumption if your needs for power are small.

I have a quote - approx 6K USD. The only negative I see is 15 weeks waiting time from order date. But then, most things are like that these days.

 

[svsagres]

Interesting option. For $6,499 it rivals the Honda inverter in price. I didn't see the noise spec. I wonder which is better. Diesel does have the advantage of the fuel storing better. I wonder if there is a fuel cost advantage when you can buy diesel without taxes for non road use. Maybe home backup where house has heating oil. You can tap that to fuel the generator.

The bigger issue is the logistics of carrying gasoline. Gasoline is takes more care and thought to carry on a boat compared to diesel/kerosene as it will evaporate with explosive vapours. Diesel doesn’t. If I was on a larger boat where I actually needed a genset, I’d consider the advantage of not needing to carry/manage gasoline to be worth a pretty penny.

 

[32 volt boater]

Diesel Engine, 2.2KW 196CC 3HP 4 Stroke Single-Cylinder Air-Cooled Diesel Engine Manual Recoil Start Engine Orange+Black, 168F​

​

175.00​

Its on Amazon. Just power your favorite alternator and your good to go.

 

[ovakus]

As far as I can tell they only do the PMG on the 1B30E and the 1B50E.

These gensets solve two problems for me - keep everything diesel and they are small. Its difficult to find a small diesel genset much less one that has a PMG built into it.

Like others here, I want to keep my setup all diesel on the boat. I can feed the 1B50E (my preferred setup out of the two) from my main diesel tank.

The BIG thing about these gensets is the diminutive size. The hatch I have available is 980mm Long x 400mm wide x 600mm high. These gensets fit into that hatch space with ease. IIRC the length with PMG attached is 357mm long. Thats small for a diesel genset.

Another factor to me, but ymmv, is that it is CANBUS equipped from the factory - so no after market sensors/switches/black boxes to fit to it in order to get the engine and electric parameters onto the N2K BUSS.

Something else that jumps out at me from the fiPMG brochure - the PTO shaft is still available on the engine. I wonder if I could use that for running a hydraulic pump to run my dive compressor? When not using the PMG for charging batteries I could use the hydraulic setup to run the dive compressor.... interesting idea but not sure how to go about putting that together. Currently my compressor is driven by a Honda gas engine - which means carrying gas, and I want to get right away from carrying gas if I can.

Its interesting that one can turn down the power output if needed - The PMG doesn't have to be run at full output - it starts at 20% output and can be dialled up from there. That means very low fuel consumption if your needs for power are small.

I have a quote - approx 6K USD. The only negative I see is 15 weeks waiting time from order date. But then, most things are like that these days.

I've been interested in these for a while (also for a sailboat). The small size and relatively light weight are very appealing. Where did you get the price quote? Last time I spoke with Merton's in New Jersey, USA, they did not yet have the ability to sell individual units. It seemed Hatz was still catering to bigger, high volume industrial clients. Hopefully that has changed.

 

[TimE]

For a boat, the air cooled aspect is a problem.
As an alternative, consider the Perkins 102_05 twin cylinder diesel. It's a small water cooled industrial engine of 450cc. They have been around for years. The 102-05 is a 2 cylinder version of the 3 cylinder Northern Lights lugger engine. The 3 cylinder engine runs at 1500rpm. The two cylinder engine runs at 3000rpm 9hp for 220v/ 5kVa. We have one onboard that is 27 years old. Parts are dirt cheap. At full load is runs 2 litres per hour.
I can pick it up once disconnected from the alternator. Weighs about 50kg.

 

[aybabtme]

Small size, light weight, direct DC with CAN communication with Victron. These generators are game changers in my opinion. The air-cooled would require some thinking, but their manual seems to suggest it's not unworkable. On a boat I think the salt-air could be dealt with using a large air filter ahead of the enclosure/area where the generator is stored, and some forced air with a fan. Then a dry exhaust. And 6k$ is a great price for something like this in my opinion. The alternatives are all >10k$ and much bulkier, crappier.

I'm not gonna lie, I want one yesterday. I may try to fit one in March or next Summer... I need to lose some weight first, the waterline comes too high on my catamaran.

 

[TimE]

Small size, light weight, direct DC with CAN communication with Victron. These generators are game changers in my opinion. The air-cooled would require some thinking, but their manual seems to suggest it's not unworkable. On a boat I think the salt-air could be dealt with using a large air filter ahead of the enclosure/area where the generator is stored, and some forced air with a fan. Then a dry exhaust. And 6k$ is a great price for something like this in my opinion. The alternatives are all >10k$ and much bulkier, crappier.

I'm not gonna lie, I want one yesterday. I may try to fit one in March or next Summer... I need to lose some weight first, the waterline comes too high on my catamaran.

An air filter doesn't take out moisture effectively. How are you going to remove the heat? Electrical ancillaries are normally rated for circa 40degC. An air cooled engine is going to produce a huge amount of hot air. How are you going to remove this so it doesn't heat up everything in the space including the fabric of the boat? The noise from air cooled diesel engine is considerable. There are dam good reasons why diesel generators are water cooled and enclosed in acoustic boxes. Would you consider you main engine in the same way?

 

[aybabtme]

The installation manual explains how much air flow the genset needs when in an enclosure, it's just a matter of engineering so that those numbers are met. Humidity, what about it? There's humidity everywhere and aircooled gensets work just fine. Salt is the problem, and an air filter will probably solve that. If not then it'll be a failed experiment and that's alright, life is boring without failure.

 

[Ramon Pad]

I posted this info in another thread but it was on the end of a long thread - so may well be missed by many. Reposting the info here so others get to see this info. I believe this small Hatz diesel genset to be very different to every other small genset I have seen.

************************************************************************************************************************************************************

This seems to be a nice Diesel battery charger.

Hatz (German and very old well respected company) single cylinder with a Hatz designed and built 56v 100 amp *PMG* attached to the flywheel of the engine. J1939 CAN bus equipped from the factory.

There is a 24v version if thats your voltage with 2 different 24v units available - 24v / 100 amps and they have a 24v version that has *TWO* inverters attached to the 3 phase output of the PMG to give 200 amps at 24v (1 x 100 amp + 1 x 100 amp attached to the one engine)

They also do a 115v unit and a 230v /13amp unit with the same PMG setup. That is, the one AC unit can do either 115v **OR** 230v by adjusting jumpers on the unit. From the data sheet............

......Voltage output (Factory Setting) Volt out nom.: 230/115 Volt AC. Selectable by mean of JMP1..... - Seems to be very versatile and something I have never seen or heard of before on a genset.

Choice of engines - the 1B30E which is 347cc and the bigger 1B50E which is 517cc. Diesel usage listed as 1.2L per hour at 3/4 load on the bigger 1B50E

Here......... https://www.auroragenerators.com/product-page/battery-charging-dc-generator a US based manufacturer uses the same Hatz 1B30E engine but uses a different approach to generating the 56vdc. I prefer the PMG method built by Hatz myself as there are no external parts or belts to maintain over time.

Note the diminutive size of the 56v 100amp PMG unit....

Dimensions (mm) - 357 x 440 x 480
net-weight (kg) - approx. 71
packing dimensions (mm) - 570 x 570 x 820
gross-weight (kg) - approx. 82

Seems like a nice solution.

Do you have some electrical wiring about comunication? I will comunicate the engine with an genset control. But i don´t know how connect this.

 

[Westcliffe01]

Take a look at this offer from Central Maine Diesel.
https://www.centralmainediesel.com/order/Perkins-6-kW-Diesel-Generator.asp?page=P6125
This is rated at 6kW for $4800 and is water cooled. The generator is belt driven and I am guessing the engine runs at something like 2800rpm vs 3600. Will be quieter and longer lived than an air cooled solution. They have other models to look at too with 1800rpm direct drive generators.

There is a direct drive 1800rpm 10kW model at the link below for $7800
https://www.centralmainediesel.com/order/Perkins-10-kW-Diesel-Generator.asp?page=Perkins10

 

[Dave911]

Take a look at this offer from Central Maine Diesel.
https://www.centralmainediesel.com/order/Perkins-6-kW-Diesel-Generator.asp?page=P6125
This is rated at 6kW for $4800 and is water cooled. The generator is belt driven and I am guessing the engine runs at something like 2800rpm vs 3600. Will be quieter and longer lived than an air cooled solution. They have other models to look at too with 1800rpm direct drive generators.

There is a direct drive 1800rpm 10kW model at the link below for $7800
https://www.centralmainediesel.com/order/Perkins-10-kW-Diesel-Generator.asp?page=Perkins10

The railroads in the US use a lot of Hatz diesels. They also use Kubota. But the aircooled Hatz diesels last a very long time.

 

[Westcliffe01]

My motivation for the water cooled generator is that I plan to capture waste heat from the coolant and exhaust to get the most out of the fuel used to run the genny. I'm going to be in a cool climate where no AC will ever be needed so heat is a significant factor for most of the year. My 2500sqft shop will have radiant floor heat (pex) with a storage tank for the hot water and I will be using heat exchangers on the coolant and exhaust systems.

 

[Crowz]

Diesels love heat so unless it melts down its not likely to care about heat build up near as much as a gas version would. So on a boat if its in a spot that would house an engine of any kind water cooling probably wouldn't be required I'd imagine since they should have vent fans for that area.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

The local quote I am getting for the 1B50E with 56vdc PMG is approx $6K

Its not a terrible price for what it is.

It is very small and can fit into the hatch I have on my sugar scoop.

I was looking at building my own DC genset with a Yanmar 3 cylinder Diesel. It works out much more expensive then this. What is nice about this little guy is its all factory designed and built and has CANBUS onboard. It will be nice to have that CANBUS data from the DC genset on the N2K network on the boat.

I am not that interested in the Aurora version of it. I dont like the belt setup that drives the 3rd party alternator.

at 1.2L per hour fuel burn to pump around 4-4.5kW of 56 VDC power into the battery setup, I'll take it.

I think its a very interesting little genset. Posted the info here so that others are aware that it exists. It can solve some DC genset problems in a unique way.

just curious do you know a location to source a 54-58 volt generator head? I have a 2 cylinder yanmar (8~12 hp) depending upon fuel pump setup, from a cultivator and it was one of the things i wanted to try

 

[Ohms_Cousin]

Did anyone ever end up getting hold of one of these ? Interested in user reviews

 

[Ohms_Cousin]

just curious do you know a location to source a 54-58 volt generator head? I have a 2 cylinder yanmar (8~12 hp) depending upon fuel pump setup, from a cultivator and it was one of the things i wanted to try

No I dont.

 

[Dave911]

No I dont.

Use a large 24 volt alternator and build or buy a custom voltage regulator.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Use a large 24 volt alternator and build or buy a custom voltage regulator.

thats an idea, basically I am looking at the same engine i used for my wood splitter a little 2 cylinder kubota diesel that makes between 8-12 Hp depending upon your fuel pump settings. I wonder if that would be enough hp? they also have three cylinder kubota's on the auctions occasionally, the kubotas out fo rice combines are so cheap and plentiful its a challenge not to buy several of them for experimenting with.

 

[Crowz]

Basically that's what I did with an old gas riding mower I had when the deck rusted out. This is a 24volt bus alternator I ordered for that so regulator tweaking might work for that. I think the mower had a 15 hp engine on it.