Mooore Power

[InMyImage]

Honestly I don’t normally do intro threads, but I’m not normally a fish out of water who has a lot to learn and will definitely looking forward to tips, tricks, gotchas, don’t do that! etc.

So, my wife and I have embarked on a full-time RV journey with our teenage autistic son in a 5th wheel trailer.

Fortunately we knew Ethan had autism before he was 18 months old and we were able to take unconventional actions to minimize the typical issues associated with autism but there are limits... One of Ethan’s limits is an interruption of power. Brownouts and blackouts have always been a major problem and now that we are in the trailer we have had a couple hiccups and outages so we want to set things up so that we don’t suffer from either and he doesn’t even realize there has been an outage.

Additionally, even though our trailer is 50 amps and I have a variety of adapters to combine outlets when 50 amp isn’t available there have been a couple sites where the only outlet available was a single 30 amp outlet so I couldn’t combine say a 15 amp with a 30 amp or grab a 30 amp from shared pedestals to get us to at least close to a full 50 amps and I’m going to build things such that we always have plenty of power available for our needs.

So... after lurking a bit and much discussion with @Michael B Caro I pulled the trigger on 16 Lishen 272 AH cells, it’s way more than what should ever be required to meet our basic requirements but at the price he got me, it didn’t make much sense to only get 8. These will get configured into an 8s2p 24v battery bank, let me know I got the nomenclature wrong. Side benefit is that boondocking should become realistic with an appropriate solar setup.

In order to seamlessly transfer power AND use the batteries to give a power assist when limited to a single 30 amp connection, I’m planning on using a Victron MultiPlus inverter/charger. If anyone knows of another brand inverter/charger that has a power assist feature, please let me know as Victron has been the only one I’ve found with this feature.

Anyhow, I’ll close this chapter of my story and look forward to learning much more as I flesh out my system design over the course of the next month or so.

Thanks and have a good one

 

[snoobler]

Welcome!

Given your restrictions, I assume you have a split phase gas generator available?

Your 50A input requires 240VAC split phase, but with a 30A input L1 and and L2 are shorted providing the same phase to both legs in your RV.

You would essentially need 2 umbilicals - one connected to the AC in of your multiplus with a 30A plug with the AC-out connected to a ATS and then the original 50A connector connected to the ATS with the ATS connected to the AC panel

When running L1 and L2 jumpered, you are stuck with the current rating of your wires. When in 50A mode, the neutral line essentially carries no current, but in 30A mode, N carries the return current of both L1 and L2 legs, i.e., double current. Assuming This limits you to 50A on the neutral or 6000W - still only half of what a 50A line can provide.

I'm very curious to hear what is challenging about being on a 30A connection that you can't mitigate with simple power management. If running dual A/C units is part of the problem, a $300 soft start on each A/C unit may be the better solution or at least part of it.

We run our 5th wheel on a Victron 48/5kW Quattro - essentially a 4kW inverter, so we only have a little more power than with a 30A connection, but our 34' unit only has one A/C.

 

[InMyImage]

Welcome!

Given your restrictions, I assume you have a split phase gas generator available?

Your 50A input requires 240VAC split phase, but with a 30A input L1 and and L2 are shorted providing the same phase to both legs in your RV.

You would essentially need 2 umbilicals - one connected to the AC in of your multiplus with a 30A plug with the AC-out connected to a ATS and then the original 50A connector connected to the ATS with the ATS connected to the AC panel

When running L1 and L2 jumpered, you are stuck with the current rating of your wires. When in 50A mode, the neutral line essentially carries no current, but in 30A mode, N carries the return current of both L1 and L2 legs, i.e., double current. Assuming This limits you to 50A on the neutral or 6000W - still only half of what a 50A line can provide.

I'm very curious to hear what is challenging about being on a 30A connection that you can't mitigate with simple power management. If running dual A/C units is part of the problem, a $300 soft start on each A/C unit may be the better solution or at least part of it.

We run our 5th wheel on a Victron 48/5kW Quattro - essentially a 4kW inverter, so we only have a little more power than with a 30A connection, but our 34' unit only has one A/C.

Thanks for the feedback.

We don’t have a generator and will mainly rely on park power to keep the batteries charged until we get solar, but even then I know that getting enough solar to keep up with the 13 kwh of batteries will be challenging.

Our rig has a residential fridge with an Xantrex inverter with an ATS. It runs the residential fridge plus a couple additional outlets (none in my sons room). I’m thinking that I’ll run the un-protected output of the MultiPlus to the existing inverter so that it continues to cover the same devices it currently does and then use the MultiPlus to power the remaining devices and outlets.

Long term goal will be to get a second MultiPlus when we can afford it to replace the Xantrex.

The primary power assist desire is to enable full use of all appliances without worrying about the 30 amp limitations so at least one AC (we have 2), microwave, washer and dryer, etc. Accidentally tripping the pedestal break is the same as a blackout to Ethan.

Knowing that Victron inverter/chargers are popular with RV’rs is a definite plus and already finding someone with one is great. Will definitely value your input as I design and implement the system.

 

[snoobler]

Ah... Washer/dryer is a variable we don't have to deal with. Our 5th wheel has space for them, but we don't have them. Our 5th wheel is our "cabin" on our off-grid property, and we generally aren't there long enough to need to do laundry. The power system is external - all stored in a shipping container supplying a 50A power pedestal, so the RV is unmodified. Once fully deployed, the power system will provide tons of power for a full dwelling (once built).

Without understanding your trailer's wiring and the Xantrax inverter's role, I'm concerned the Multiplus dual output option may not be viable.

If you've worked all this out, please disregard.

 

[InMyImage]

Ah... Washer/dryer is a variable we don't have to deal with. Our 5th wheel has space for them, but we don't have them. Our 5th wheel is our "cabin" on our off-grid property, and we generally aren't there long enough to need to do laundry. The power system is external - all stored in a shipping container supplying a 50A power pedestal, so the RV is unmodified. Once fully deployed, the power system will provide tons of power for a full dwelling (once built).

Without understanding your trailer's wiring and the Xantrax inverter's role, I'm concerned the Multiplus dual output option may not be viable.

If you've worked all this out, please disregard.

Currently we are traveling but eventually we plan to buy some land and park the trailer while we build our retirement home.

We have stackable washer and dryer and as full timers it’s really nice to not have to deal with laundromats even if the capacity is small.

I haven’t worked out the details of installing the inverter and integrating it into the guts of the trailer but do have a leg up given having the Xantrex to act as a guide. Lots of wire toning in my future!

Fortunately because the MultiPlus is so popular with full-timers that there are quite a few videos about installing them and people to ask more in depth questions.

I need to get a full wiring diagram from Jayco, fortunately it hasn’t been a problem getting the various diagrams I have requested in the past 6 months so I don’t anticipate any problems there.

Jealous of your Quatro. Would love to have one so we could integrate a generator in the system to automatically start it but can‘t justify the huge price jump.

 

[snoobler]

Hmm... Multiplus has auto gen start too. It just doesn't have the ability to be connected to both grid and gen at the same time (Quattro will only use one or the other even if both are connected). That, 48V option and the higher power of the Quattro are the only differences.

Looks like we have the same end goal with different paths.

Washer/Dryer are also impractical because we have no more than 935 gallons at any given time. We use about 40 gallons per weekend including 4 submarine showers. In cold weather, I'm probably dumping about 10-15 gallons on the ground because I have to winterize it every time we leave for 3 months out of the year.

Anyway, good luck! With the wiring diagram and a better understanding of how to integrate the Multiplus, you can get where you want to go.

 

[InMyImage]

Hmm... Multiplus has auto gen start too. It just doesn't have the ability to be connected to both grid and gen at the same time (Quattro will only use one or the other even if both are connected). That, 48V option and the higher power of the Quattro are the only differences.

Looks like we have the same end goal with different paths.

Washer/Dryer are also impractical because we have no more than 935 gallons at any given time. We use about 40 gallons per weekend including 4 submarine showers. In cold weather, I'm probably dumping about 10-15 gallons on the ground because I have to winterize it every time we leave for 3 months out of the year.

Anyway, good luck! With the wiring diagram and a better understanding of how to integrate the Multiplus, you can get where you want to go.

Thanks, I didn’t think the MultiPlus had auto gen start, will definitely have to look deeper. It’s been a bit of a challenge because Victron has so many similar units on their site. I haven’t found any good comparison guide so it’s a pain.

 

[snoobler]

It helps to read through their manual. They have a built-in battery monitor. It says it's optional, but my Quattros have it, and I'm pretty sure it's standard equipment.