MPP 2xLV2424 split phase - output is under 220VAC (on true RMS meter)

[madmax]

I thinks David poz tested the 5048 and found that it was unable to provide more than rought half the overall (5000/2) to a single leg. Meaning it wouldn't provide more than the 25a of output on each side of the split phase.

Just depends on your needs and config.

 

[madmax]

FYI I checked the mpp solar pdf, it says >90 percent efficiency for the lv2424.

I cannot find the 5048 having grid tie capability (legal or not). That said the lv2424 says grid tie should be off during split phase operation

My other issue is that the 5048 says 80 amp x2 mppt but then says 4000w per leg of the solar. .. for a Max of 8000w.. but still a 145v max. I don't know how that would operate!

 

[Capt Bill]

Yaaay, great video on paralled invertors that communicate to produce a phase matched output! Thanks

Not exactly the LV2424, but similar MPP model; plus hooking up in parallel to up the 120v ampage output to one leg of circuit breaker box vs configuring for 240vac split phase (2 * 120vac outputs/ one to each leg of circuit breaker box).

I now have my two MPP LV2424 on wall with initial configuration; hooked up and fused up safely to my 1st DIY 24v 280 Ah LiFePO4s, grid input, & connected to power up my main house sub panel (a little under powered/ but doable). I am currently without Solar Panel Input because that is coming up next. I have confirmed both of my LV2424s can power my kitchen and most of my house, plus both battery chargers work. Wow to the options including for grid pass through help (if you choose to configure for that and have grid); for if one exceed limits of the inverter (which I did this morning / and blew a 200 amp fuse right after seeing the red flashing fault light while testing too high an amp draw). I will be configuring to 240v split phase next. I am taking in the references of that video link while leaning on the MPP manual. 1st time configuration seem to take more time than I first imagine. Printing out parts of my manual and marking it up as I study the details is helping me. More later ... :+) Bill

 

[Capt Bill]

I just configured my two LV2424s for 240vac split phase output about 30 minutes ago. I will hook up a third LV2424 soon to up my current 2400 watt ability to 4800 watt ability on one of two circuit breaker legs (for 20 amp on one 120vac leg /and 40 amp ability on other more used 120vac leg/ all on 240vac split phase (so my 240vac well pump will work too). :+)

I used the closing part of the manual with it ok directions on how to do this (but instructions could have been better!). I printed pages to 37 to 48 of the LV2424 Manual (covers others models too) to study as I did this. After wiring as diagram shows (two wire connecting unit from bottom side) and disconnecting the All In One from grid Out to Curcuit breaker box, AND Grid Input to All In ones (which needs to be 120ac from 240ac split phase/ one leg going to one unit, the other leg going to other unit:, and output from All In Ones disconnected. I had to figure out how to get setting 28 in All In Ones to show options; had to be switch off (all in one little switch at bottom, which turns off inverter only, had to be off/ with I 1st thought; with no grid Input to All In One. What MPPs directions could have been clearer about: I had to turn on Grid Input to my All In Ones (with inverter switched off / or that might also be standby), ...to get setting 28 to show my options for selecting 2P1 and 2P2. (says set up in sequence, then turn unit off, then back on. Has to be with with 240ac / one leg of each 120vac going to each all in one. Finally sets up and shows "P1" on screen of 1st unit/ and"P2" on screen of 2nd unit. I left the load side from the All In Ones disconnected until I got everything configured. I running my house on both LV2424 now. :+) Happy Days, Bill

 

[offgriddle]

Not exactly the LV2424, but similar MPP model; plus hooking up in parallel to up the 120v ampage output to one leg of circuit breaker box vs configuring for 240vac split phase (2 * 120vac outputs/ one to each leg of circuit breaker box).

I now have my two MPP LV2424 on wall with initial configuration; hooked up and fused up safely to my 1st DIY 24v 280 Ah LiFePO4s, grid input, & connected to power up my main house sub panel (a little under powered/ but doable). I am currently without Solar Panel Input because that is coming up next. I have confirmed both of my LV2424s can power my kitchen and most of my house, plus both battery chargers work. Wow to the options including for grid pass through help (if you choose to configure for that and have grid); for if one exceed limits of the inverter (which I did this morning / and blew a 200 amp fuse right after seeing the red flashing fault light while testing too high an amp draw). I will be configuring to 240v split phase next. I am taking in the references of that video link while leaning on the MPP manual. 1st time configuration seem to take more time than I first imagine. Printing out parts of my manual and marking it up as I study the details is helping me. More later ... :+) Bill

Ahoy there Captain Bill! Being an effective captain means you must wear many hats and tackle many challenges to keep your ship afloat! Great job, can't help you on the grid tie as i am not near any power poles and don't plan to run the greedy grid in from the main road up to the homestead anytime soon. Keep us posted of your solar adventures, ill be reading! OG

 

[Capt Bill]

Ahoy there Captain Bill! Being an effective captain means you must wear many hats and tackle many challenges to keep your ship afloat! Great job, can't help you on the grid tie as i am not near any power poles and don't plan to run the greedy grid in from the main road up to the homestead anytime soon. Keep us posted of your solar adventures, ill be reading! OG

I am configuring to run Island style, Isolated from my Grid power. I am very glad I have Grid for any higher amp needs I might have like for welding, or powering up my 240vac/ 50 amp German made Steibel on demand type Water Heater (which I will leave off of my LV2424 circuits), and just as a backup (though it going to get switched OFF during dry high wind wilderness fire danger times, or was off for days during our 2017 Firestorm that hit my community (so luck it remain 1.5 miles away fro my place). I Think: Configuring three LV2424 for getting 20amps /& up to 40 Amps split phase (with grid IN covering occasional higher amps draws up to some limit) will nicely cover my needs.

I have a couple of 120vac Pioneer brand heat pumps to put online next (after my solar panels racks and panels get place my roof in next week or two)), ... for 12000 BTU (x 2) for my Heating (in winter, an backing off use of natural gas), and for AC type Cooling needs; using only up to 9 amps each @ 120vac when cycling on via their built in thermostat adjustments.... Those mini split heat pumps are just getting more and more efficient at making use electricity with their variable speed dc powered compressors etc. ... I heard it is better to undersize em, and compared to getting heat from a glowing red hot coil, I heard or read someone saying these newer mini split heat pumps are up to 8 times more efficient. I currently cool my house with an evaporator cooler in our dry inland Mendocino County, Northern California Climate. Those Evap Coolers (swamp coolers) are way more economical to run than AC units, but kind of reach their limits when it hits about 100 degrees F (which is happening today/ thankfully not a whole lot). l like the idea of the 2 Pioneer 120vac 12000 BTU heat pumps I obtained for about $750 each. I think it will be a great way to use my solar energy, Plus be an super option if there is ever wildfire smoke in my neighborhood.

Re: The LV2424s: I am not absolutely sure, but I think these MPP All In Ones NEED some kind of 240vac split phase IN source to bounce off of, to kick in to it's split phase option. Maybe if I was off grid in the boondocks and wanted 240v split phase; ... I might consider a 240 Vac Inverter type Generator for both back up, and kicking in the LV2424 to split phase (or I might try borrowing such a generator). Do You Need 240vac split phase to kick the LV2424 into split phase. ... I think YES. This is just my take from my 1st time ever configuration to 240v split phase earlier today. I could be off base about that, but I doubt it.

Additional Thoughts for OFF Grid: I think 120vac would cover the huge majority of my needs. The advantage of 240vac split (or double) phase come into view when running a long distance of electrical cable to something like a 240ac well pump (possibly down some 300 foot well hole , plus possibly 300 - 600 foot or more away from originating source. That is where 240vac split phase has a noticeable advantage: ... 240vac can run on thinner wires because then each leg is running at half the amperage as compared to a 120vac run. Otherwise, I would think paralleling those LV2424 units to up one's Watt and Amperage at the circuit breaker box would be quite good enough. That is My Curious Creator Take Today :+)

 

[offgriddle]

I am configuring to run Island style, Isolated form my Grid power. I am very glad I have Grid for any higher amp needs like welding, or powering up my 240vac/ 50 amp German made Steibel on demand type Water Heater (I will leave those off my LV2424 circuits). I Think: Configuring three LV2424 for getting 20amps /& up to 40 Amps split phase (with grid IN covering occasional higher amps draws up to some limit) will nicely cover most of my needs.

I am not absolutely sure, but I think these MPP LV2424 NEED a 240vac split phase IN to bounce off of, to kick in to it's split phase option. Maybe if I was in the boonedocks with no grid, I might consider a 240 Vac Inteverter Generator for both back up, and kicking in the LV2424 to split phase. This is just my take from my 1st time ever configuration to 240v split phase just earlier today. I could be off base about that, but I doubt it.

OK, split phase, aka single phase consists of two120 volt AC lines coming from the high voltage transformer. Each line reads 120 volts to ground and 120 volts to neutral. The voltage measured between both 120 volt lines is 240 volts because the lines are phased so that when one 120 line volt reaches maximum positive, the other 120 volt line is reaching maximum negative which equals 240 volts maximum peak to peak. This maximum peak occurs 60 times each second in the USA.

 

[Capt Bill]

RE: when one 120 line volt reaches maximum positive, the other 120 volt line is reaching maximum negative which equals 240 volts maximum peak to peak. This maximum peak occurs 60 times each second in the USA.

My Take: I think you are missing part of the picture when you label one leg of 120 ac as positive, and the other 120 vac as negative. Both legs are the same 120 Volt AC (alternating current/ different than DC current), and both are kind of vibrating at 60 cycles per second (Hz). If there something in that 220-240vac current configuration that is kind of like a negative, it is the (usually colored white) neutral wire, and then the ground wire which hook up to the same grounding bus bar in your circuit breaker box. 240vac split phase refers to two alternating 120 vac legs vibrating against the same neutral and ground wire current route, in kind of half synced overlapping patterns of that 60Hz AC current vibration (& some countries have 50Hz). That is definitely different than DC current that has a positive and negative. I hope that make sense. That is the way I understand it, and someone else might be able to explain it better.

Also: To make it a little more confusing; ... In some European and other countries , there are 220 Vac current standards that have 220vac current flowing through just two wires (the hot and neutral wire w ground, and that is not the same as 220- 240vac "split phase" used in the USA (and elsewhere?) ... or at least, that is my current understanding (+: :+)

 

[bhavin66]

One of the reasons I went with LV5048. Instead of fudging the phase thing outside the box and hoping it works LV5048 does everything inside the box and I give split phase in and I get split phase out. Remaining connection is solar panels and battery. Easy. Everything else is software/firmware setting from the menu or watchpower software.
From what I remember for these MPP boxes to work you need either solar or grid connection and batteries connection to get it spit out 120/240vac

 

[offgriddle]

My Take: I think you are missing part of the picture when you label one leg of 120 ac as positive, and the other 120 vac as negative. Both legs are the same 120 Volt AC (alternating current/ different than DC current), and both are kind of vibrating at 60 cycles per second (Hz). If there something in that 220-240vac current configuration that is kind of like a negative, it is the (usually colored white) neutral wire, and then the ground wire which hook up to the same grounding bus bar in your circuit breaker box. 240vac split phase refers to two alternating 120 vac legs vibrating against the same neutral and ground wire current route, in kind of half synced overlapping patterns of that 60Hz AC current vibration (& some countries have 50Hz). That is definitely different than DC current that has a positive and negative. I hope that make sense. That is the way I understand it, and someone else might be able to explain it better.

Also: To make it a little more confusing; ... In some European and other countries , there are 220 Vac current standards that have 220vac current flowing through just two wires (the hot and neutral wire w ground, and that is not the same as 220- 240vac "split phase" used in the USA (and elsewhere?) ... or at least, that is my current understanding (+: :+)

Hmmm captain, yes indeed both 120 volt legs are equally positive in respect to earth ground and it's kissing cousin, neutral. Both 120 VAC lines are carrying a sinusoidal wave of electrical energy that alternates 60 times each second. Both lines are phase matched so when one line reaches it's positive sinusoidal wave peak the other line is reaching it's maximum negative sinusoidal wave peak. The difference of potential measured between the two, oppositely phased peaks = 240 volts.

 

[Capt Bill]

Hmmm captain, yes indeed both 120 volt legs are equally positive in respect to earth ground and it's kissing cousin, neutral. Both 120 VAC lines are carrying a sinusoidal wave of electrical energy that alternates 60 times each second. Both lines are phase matched so when one line reaches it's positive sinusoidal wave peak the other line is reaching it's maximum negative sinusoidal wave peak. The difference of potential measured between the two, oppositely phased peaks = 240 volts.

got it down ;+)

 

[Capt Bill]

I just got my 3rd LV24242 networked to my 24v 280Ah LiFePO4 battery bank configure for 240vac spit phase/ for up to 2400 watts 20 amps ac on one leg, and up to 4800 watts 40 amps on other sub panel circuit breaker box leg. I also have 240v split phase INPUT to my All In Ones available via separate circuit breakers to power the LV2424 (up to 60 Amps from each, & up to 180 Amp total) battery charging options, and/or to power overloads (beyond 2400 watts each /extra amps if I configure for that).

I am in a pre Solar Panel Input phase right now on this project because solar rack for my roof are next (with 4000 watts worth of solar panels stored in my nearby gazebo right after that). In 1st dialing in my Chargery BMS8T protection: I have set up my BMS discharge trigger to a SSR that turns off all three of my All In One's Inverters (protecting my LiFePO4s from further draw down if just one battery cell hits the 2.5 volts empty cell mark. I decided to also set up my BMS charge side triggers to disconnect both my Grid Input, and Solar Input to my All In Ones' MPPT chargers via multiple SSRs. I decided I liked cutting off AC & DC current Inputs like that, better than using a much higher amp rated relay to cut my Battery Cable Connection (which would required a 300 amp + rated relay using up coil power 24/7) .

While in my phase of testing options; I am wondering hard about this: Can I Charge My LiFePO4 Batteries with my 120vac Inverter Generator when networking 2 or more LV2424s for 240vac split phase ???

... I am not sure if that is possible. I am sure I could get one LV2424 All In One to actualize its' battery charger with 120vac grid or inverter generator input, or to get that multiple battery chargers working on a daisy chain of LV2424s configured to up the amperage of one 120vac circuit (from 20 amps, to 40 amps, 60 amps, & up ... ) with 120vac INPUT to my All In Ones. ... But after configuring 2 or 3 LV2424s for 240vac split phase: I have not been able to actualize any battery charger action unless I apply both sides of 240vac split phase INPUT(using my grid IN options) to all three of the All In Ones I have networked together. I am not sure there is a way to InPut just 120vac IN (just one leg IN and not the other) to get a battery charge cycle going! The only way I have been able to get a battery charging cycle started from grid IN options is by Inputting both legs of 240vac split phase. The Handicap of this situation in my view (if I do not figure out a work around): One might need a 240vac split phase inverter generator to charge batteries(on a cloudy no grid cycle), when configured for 240vac split phase. ???

I have two 120vac Inverter Generators (a 2000 watt and 4000 watt) I can power up my house's sub panel with, for situations like when the grid might be turned off for a protection from wild fire danger phase. If it was cloudy for days, and the grid was off, and my batteries were drained; I certainly want to be charging my batteries whenever I run a generator. In my view, If I am not able to get past this (kind of road block) ... this will be my view of the Major Handicap of the LV2424 when configured for USA style 240vac split phase.

Has anyone else looked at this arena of questioning? Maybe this handicap could be fixed with a MPP Firmware Update. ??? If I find an answer for how to charge my batteries with 120vac Input while configure for 240vac Split phase Output ; ... , I will share the information here ... :+) Bill

 

[Capt Bill]

July 7, 2020: My Ongoing LV2424 Configuration & Testing and Adventure:

Wondering If this is normal for the LV2424 (I now have 3 configured for 240vac Split Phase),
... or If there might be a Firmware Update Fix for this challenge/ or some way to configure better:

I would like to leave my Grid IN ON, as a backup for overload situations, while working to understanding all my options properly. In my Testing of different settings: I notice with GRID IN; w and Solar OFF, (configured for 240vac split phase); With number one setting of SUB chosen (Utilities supply beyond Solar Input) = My Battery Charger gets actualized/ vs choosing #1's "SbU" (Battery supply beyond Solar Input) = my Battery Charger stays OFF (and might go on later via setting #20 (for Stop on Battery discharge when Grid In).

I like that Sbu option with Grid IN, and using the batteries and solar to power loads, ... and that works Until I flip breaker to include PV IN, ... Then with PV In to one of three All In Ones, I get grid plus solar supplying all loads with no battery draw, and instead have the grid float charging my batteries. Playing with Setting 10 for Charger Source Priority does not made a difference, and I current have that setting on "CSO" for Solar First Priority.

I read one other LV2424 thread ( https://diysolarforum.com/threads/mpp-solar-lv2424-kicks-butt.5852/ ... with at least one other LV2424 owner testing and configuring these same options, and then leaving Grid Input OFF for his solution (not one I desire), or using battery timer for one hour and low charge rate (something I might try next).

I have an extra challenge to understand from configuring 240vac split phase (specifically: a setting 30 defined in parallel or 3 phase section of manual (that include directions for 2 phase)/ ... have selection options for ONE or ALL that might help me/ but that # 30 conflicts the "LV2424's "Start charge timer for AC charger" (on same #30 setup); The Split Phase (ONE or ALL) does Not Show up in my current viewing attempts (I have faint memory of seeing it on original 240 split phase config/ but not sure).

I have some ongoing research, and think I may soon put my Questions to MPP Tech Support.

Attached is picture of my Solar Wall. Have 2 inexpensive circuit breaker boxes: 1) 240vac Grid power INPUT to my house/kitchen subpanel (ON or OFF), with option of All In Ones INPUT to subpanel (one breaker per LV2424). 2) Then other breaker box for Grid Input to each LV2424. Plus have my Chargery BMS8T relay triggers wired to turn OFF all 3 of my LV2424s Inverters (further battery draw down) for (if) discharge side fault; Plus: via 2 SSR dc-ac underneath my Grid In Box to each All In Ones, I can cut all AC chargers off via a BMS charge trigger. I also configuring to cut off all PV Input via same BMS charge side fault trigger. ... Pre- full on Solar Input; Currently just running 400 watts of Solar In from old array on my roof. Welding up and mount my 1st solar rack on roof for 1st 2000 Watts worth of PV next week, to be followed by 2nd 2000 watt set of PV.

Learning More from Hands On :+) Bill

:+) Bill

 

[Capt Bill]

Sbu option with Grid IN, and using the batteries and solar to power loads, ... and that works Until I flip breaker to include PV IN, ... Then with PV In to one of three All In Ones, I get grid plus solar supplying all loads with no battery draw, and instead have the grid float charging my batteries.

Re my learning curves on above. I now think that is not so bad a situation: When I put a full set of 2000 watts (x 2 ) worth of Solar Panels input to LV2424(s), I could see that Solar In then charging battery and loads together, with short made up by grid Input. I Will Test more to see what happens when I get there. ... In my recent test in #1 Sbu mode/ of #20 lowest battery voltage when Grid connected: and #21 Stop auto charge voltage; ... I see that works (I set high to test, and noticed smaller than maybe 3 volts voltage difference between auto start charging (via grid), and shut off had the grid powered chargers cycling on and off too much (until I set a larger volt spread).

I would like option to Input 120vac via my 4000 Watt Inverter Generator to one or two LV2424 (when configured for 240vac split phase), for a Battery Charging Cycle via one 120ac leg In to one or two of my All In Ones, powered solely by my 120vac Inverter Generator. I am currently doubtful that is easily possible; as I might need a 240vac Inverter Generator to do that, or have to reconfigure to parallel LV2424 for higher amperage 120 Ac single phase to do that; or have or a separated additional Battery Charger to do that (which does not make allot of sense)! I would like to figure out my how to on this option from the point of view "Be Prepared" with full set of Independant Energy Options :+)

 

[Capt Bill]

Can I Charge My LiFePO4 Batteries with my 120vac Inverter Generator when networking 2 or more LV2424s for 240vac split phase ???

I just got some more information from MPP (USA) about my 120vac INPUT battery charging options when two or more MPP LV2424s are configured for USA spec 240ac split phase. I posted that info. to the thread: MPP Solar LV2424 kicks butt!!! ... if there is any interest in the subject here: just search for MPP Solar LV2424 kicks butt!!! for the challenge I sent via email dialog with MPP.