My bad

[dustystars]

Very New. Ok I want to build a 48 volt off grid solar power kit to power an electric furnace kit(that is not purchased or installed yet) to heat a 1056 square ,three bed room ranchhouse and get off the gas heat. I have know idea exactly what parts or KITS that I will need to do this project and funds are somewhat limited. because I deal in cash only NO CREDIT. So any info on the least expensive,least amount of work (this is not a hobby )so fully already put together kits are preferred over part by part .any way I have 4 12v valence batteries and a 48v 80amp blocking diode with heat sink and that's where I'm at with this think I wasted a lot of money.

 

[offgriddle]

Oh dear, you are trying to heat using electricity, solar derived electricity no less ... What is the square footage of the space you wish to heat, how well insulated is the space, what is the typical lowest temperature outside and what is the desired temperature inside?

 

[Craig]

if you have time this is a good video

This guy lives in canada and uses solar for heating pretty much exclusively

 

[dustystars]

Oh dear, you are trying to heat using electricity, solar derived electricity no less ... What is the square footage of the space you wish to heat, how well insulated is the space, what is the typical lowest temperature outside and what is the desired temperature inside?

Square footage 1056 sq ft very well insulated. Montana temps a lot of 30s and some times below 0s. Seen it 38 below 0 before though . Desired temp liveable. Say 70

 

[offgriddle]

Square footage 1056 sq ft very well insulated. Montana temps a lot of 30s and some times below 0s. Seen it 38 below 0 before though . Desired temp liveable. Say 70

Okay, here is some useful information. Heatiing your Montana space strictly using standard electric radiation will take a robust PV generation and storage system. https://www.entekhvac.com/best-electric-furnace-gas-furnace/

 

[MisterSandals]

Square footage 1056 sq ft

I think you would need to have a solar array bigger than the sq ft you are trying to heat.
Noble cause but probably not financially feasible with solar where you are located (cold temps and little sun).

 

[Steve_S]

Ohh my. Please listen carefully, electric heating / resistance heating of any kind IS battery killer and quite inappropriate for solar systems. Hot Water tanks, like electric stoves are plain bad for solar systems ad batteries, they just draw way too much. Now cooking with induction cooker's is the best way with solar it's still on the edge of "much".

IF anyone thinking Montana get's colder or nastier than Canada, Come on up another 1000 kilometers to the north and try our -25 degree, 3 metres of snow on the ground and tell us about it then.

The First & Most important rule for solar deployment is to understand that Conservation is FAR cheaper than generation and / or storage ! Many do not realize it, but on average, 33% of power is wasted due to inefficient appliances or bad habits. Now heating & cooling are two really essential pieces of the puzzle for the majority of folks and many solutions are available. One of the biggest innovations in the past 20 years has been the ever increasing efficiency & capability for Mini-Split heating & Cooling systems, as well as passive radiant heating systems.

My own case: I am offgrid and remote in the wilds of North Eastern Ontario Canada, near Algonquin Park (40km roughly). We see up to 40C / 104F in summer & -30C / -22F in Winter. I'm at the moment running with 2Kw solar & 22Kwh+ storage (in transition from lead acid to LFP). Heating is done via in-slab Radiant Heating which uses LPG (Propane) for fuel (chosen because it can be easily converted to Biogas). Supplemental heating with a woodstove and backup heating with a Kerosene heater. (I have triple redundancy for criticals). Radiant Heating system supplied by The Radiant Company of Vermont who designed & supplied all the gear including the Takagi TH3M (best market price anywhere). More details about my solar system & "cabin" can be seen through the links in my signature.

An important detail though: I built my place from scratch after clearing the bush. As such, I built it specifically as a hyper insulated & efficient home from the outset. This includes solid foam core walls (5-1/2" thick foam between studs) and 7-1/2" of ISO Foam insulation in my cathedral ceiling, a Texas Cool Roof system, Rain Screen siding system and a Frost Protected Slab Foundation with 4" of XPS Foam for R20 as opposed to code minimum of 2" R10. All hand built by myself for my specific intended use and it took me nearly a full year to just get all the insulation collected & together before starting the actual build.

 

[offgriddle]

Ohh my. Please listen carefully, electric heating / resistance heating of any kind IS battery killer and quite inappropriate for solar systems. Hot Water tanks, like electric stoves are plain bad for solar systems ad batteries, they just draw way too much. Now cooking with induction cooker's is the best way with solar it's still on the edge of "much".

IF anyone thinking Montana get's colder or nastier than Canada, Come on up another 1000 kilometers to the north and try our -25 degree, 3 metres of snow on the ground and tell us about it then.

The First & Most important rule for solar deployment is to understand that Conservation is FAR cheaper than generation and / or storage ! Many do not realize it, but on average, 33% of power is wasted due to inefficient appliances or bad habits. Now heating & cooling are two really essential pieces of the puzzle for the majority of folks and many solutions are available. One of the biggest innovations in the past 20 years has been the ever increasing efficiency & capability for Mini-Split heating & Cooling systems, as well as passive radiant heating systems.

My own case: I am offgrid and remote in the wilds of North Eastern Ontario Canada, near Algonquin Park (40km roughly). We see up to 40C / 104F in summer & -30C / -22F in Winter. I'm at the moment running with 2Kw solar & 22Kwh+ storage (in transition from lead acid to LFP). Heating is done via in-slab Radiant Heating which uses LPG (Propane) for fuel (chosen because it can be easily converted to Biogas). Supplemental heating with a woodstove and backup heating with a Kerosene heater. (I have triple redundancy for criticals). Radiant Heating system supplied by The Radiant Company of Vermont who designed & supplied all the gear including the Takagi TH3M (best market price anywhere). More details about my solar system & "cabin" can be seen through the links in my signature.

An important detail though: I built my place from scratch after clearing the bush. As such, I built it specifically as a hyper insulated & efficient home from the outset. This includes solid foam core walls (5-1/2" thick foam between studs) and 7-1/2" of ISO Foam insulation in my cathedral ceiling, a Texas Cool Roof system, Rain Screen siding system and a Frost Protected Slab Foundation with 4" of XPS Foam for R20 as opposed to code minimum of 2" R10. All hand built by myself for my specific intended use and it took me nearly a full year to just get all the insulation collected & together before starting the actual build.

Oui, it suffices to say mon neighbor du le nord, heating electrically is a highly energy consumptive function, therefore, highly costly.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Living a tad more north than my Canadian friends here still, let's just say that solar in winter is fine to offset some heating, but you could never rely on that alone in a cold climate. What I do is store anything that doesn't go into the batteries into a 3000L hot water tank that gets heated with wood as well. In summer you don't need it and you get hot water from all the excess solar (endless hot showers if you want them), but in winter you need an alternative - and that's with a 10kW array. Now granted, you're not that extreme north, but what I can see from your comments is that you do get cold winters, and you might be able to offset your gas heat a little, but I would never go fully electric in your situation and make sure you have alternatives at hand at all times. Gas is uncommon where I am and I only use it for cooking (and an emergency heater if everything else goes very bad), but wood is my main source and is plentiful. Maybe something you can do is add some wood into the mix, but that depends on the access you have.

 

[offgriddle]

if you have time this is a good video

This guy lives in canada and uses solar for heating pretty much exclusively

Extremely thorough, he spent a lot of time on this video and no matter what did a wonderful job. Has he found the holy grail of creating enough solar electricity to heat a small home in a cold climate, for less than $100,000 USD up front costs and a 1/8-1/4 acre of PV panels? Maybe!

Either way, I try to bring things into practical real world perspective that my beleaguered brain can process and understand.

Sayyyy your home needs the equivalent of several electric baseboard radiators to keep it properly heated and they all run for portions of every hour of every winter day, that's going to take some serious wattage and theres no way around that!

Cadet 96 in. 240/208-volt 2,000/1,500-watt Electric Baseboard Heater in White 8F2000W - The Home Depot

Cadet electric baseboard heaters are a simple and economical way to add quiet, convection heat wherever it's needed in your home. This white 96-inch heater is an industry-standard size making it ideal

www.homedepot.com

 

[Craig]

Not to derail this thread but what about heating Oil since it retains heat much longer than water. Wondering if you could throw a bunch of energy at it during the day and use it through the night more efficiently.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

I disagree with some of the conclusions he makes for Northern European countries. The cheapest by far (on grid) is district heating. In this country, there is no natural gas for use in direct heating of homes. Wood on the other hand can cost you as little as 50 Euro per cubic meter (stere) delivered (this is dried, cut, ready to use and delivered to your door) and represents 1000kWh of useful heating energy.

The calculation:

useful heating (kWh) = firewood volume(steres/cubic meters) * solid mass coefficient (cubic meters/stere) * density (kg/m3) * energy content (kWh/kg) * efficiency rate

Using the most common source, birch wood:

useful heating (kWh) per stere = 1  * 0.55 (not neatly stacked)  * 620 kg/cbm * 4.2 kWh/kg * 0.7 = 1 000 kWh

This is 5 cents per kWh and 70% efficiency rate - pretty much worst case. My masonry stove has an efficiency of around 86%. The hot water burner gets 91%. You usually also have a higher solid mass coefficient.

Of course, I cut and split my own in summer using all electric tools because what else am I going to do with all that power until I get an electric car

 

[45North]

My first reaction was wood stove. I know it's not new and glamorous but it's worked for years. Yes it's more work - but, hey, it's renewable and if you don't want to chop the wood yourself I'm sure there's someone around you can buy it from.

Solar may be great for lots of other things but using it for space heating in the frozen north doesn't appear to be one of them.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Not to derail this thread but what about heating Oil since it retains heat much longer than water. Wondering if you could throw a bunch of energy at it during the day and use it through the night more efficiently.

The specific heat capacity of water is higher than that of oil. The reason why oil is used in some instances is that thermal conductivity of water is higher than oil so in e.g. those electric heaters that have a buffer you'd use oil since it will more slowly let go of the heat compared to water. However when using a well insulated tank, nothing beats water as a storage system for heat since you can store more energy per volume. Water will also absorb heat faster because of its thermal conductivity.

But otherwise, yes, that's what you mention is what I do here: any excess solar goes to the hot water tank.

 

[45North]

Living a tad more north than my Canadian friends here still, let's just say that solar in winter is fine to offset some heating, but you could never rely on that alone in a cold climate. What I do is store anything that doesn't go into the batteries into a 3000L hot water tank that gets heated with wood as well. In summer you don't need it and you get hot water from all the excess solar (endless hot showers if you want them), but in winter you need an alternative - and that's with a 10kW array. Now granted, you're not that extreme north, but what I can see from your comments is that you do get cold winters, and you might be able to offset your gas heat a little, but I would never go fully electric in your situation and make sure you have alternatives at hand at all times. Gas is uncommon where I am and I only use it for cooking (and an emergency heater if everything else goes very bad), but wood is my main source and is plentiful. Maybe something you can do is add some wood into the mix, but that depends on the access you have.

Not to get too political but it seems to me that Europe should be more concerned about their over-reliance on Russian gas and oil supplies in general.
If push ever turns to shove Europe will be in no position to ever say "no" to the provider they are so dependent on.

 

[Supervstech]

Geothermal heat pumps, and underground housing, or severe massive wall thickness insulation...
IMMENSE electrical needs... best way to condition a space is to retain conditions in the space. I.E. insulation, and air sealing. Underground, basements, and homes require far less heating and cooling.

 

[nosys70]

"Not to get too political but it seems to me that Europe should be more concerned about their over-reliance on Russian gas and oil supplies in general"
that is silly, since when you are not a direct producer, you will always be over-reliant on somebody.
Trump or Poutine or MBS i do not think gaz as a better smell .

 

[offgriddle]

Politics Smolitics.

If your going to have the equivalent of half a dozen or so of these things placed in a modest huis, then, even if each unit only operates for fifteen minutes of every hour, that's a combined 3,000 watts per hour, times 24 hours = SEVENTY TWO KW! Not to mention additional wattage losses in the PV to SCC cables, the SCC itself as well as losses from the invertor and battery inefficiency. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Cadet-9...c-Baseboard-Heater-in-White-8F2000W/100028527

There would never be enough wattage for me to PV heat my huis plus watch Star Trek and I am NOT okay, (with that.)

Supplementation is Divine.

 

[offgriddle]

"Not to get too political but it seems to me that Europe should be more concerned about their over-reliance on Russian gas and oil supplies in general"
that is silly, since when you are not a direct producer, you will always be over-reliant on somebody.
Trump or Poutine or MBS i do not think gaz as a better smell .

Oh La La ...

Real Poutine

Poutine is an indulgence of fries, gravy and cheese. A traditional Canadian specialty that is easy to make at home for yourself when the mood strikes.

www.allrecipes.com