My experience with hybrid water heaters and a warning to stay away from AO Smith hybrid water heaters

[Rennit]

I saw a post about hybrid water heaters in here and I just thought I would make my own thread to warn people about the AO Smith hybrid water heaters.

I have 2 of them, one in my 4 car garage and the other in my 6x12ft laundry room. The one in my laundry room randomly started throwing a ECC code which according to the manual means you need to contact AO Smith. I did that and they sent a service tech out from a third party to diagnose my water heater. His diagnosis was the problem is my hybrid water heater is not in a 10x10ft room so it doesn't have the air flow it needs to work right and on top of that, they charged ME $170 for the service call because the problem "wasn't AO Smiths fault". About 2 weeks after that, it started working like normal. I didn't do a thing to it, it just decided to start working again and has been working fine since then (it's been about a month or two now).

If you are looking for a hybrid water heater, DO NOT BUY AO SMITH. I can't speak for any other brands, but I can say the principle behind them is great. They only use 500 watts ish when using the heat pump.

One thing to consider with any hybrid is the location, they need air flow and if you are planning to put them in a non-climate-controlled environment that gets below 55-50 degrees in the winter, you will not be able to run the heat pump because of the cold. It will just run forever without doing much, if it doesn't just freeze up with ice. On the other side of that, the hybrid water heater we have inside is nice for the summertime with the extra cooling, BUT, in the wintertime you still get that extra cooling you don't want so there's a tradeoff between saving power consumption from your water heater at the expense of your HVAC system having to heat more in the winter to offset the cooling from the hybrid water heater.

To recap, DO NOT BUY AO SMITH. Ever. Also, be aware of the unique issues hybrid water heaters can cause in the wintertime.

 

[Danke]

Ya, I have toyed with the idea of getting one. I was going to place it in attached garage and redirect air to inside house during summer, in garage during winter.

But I don’t really want a cool garage in winter either…

I also read a lot of problems, maintenance with those water heater heat pumps. And the heater’s initial cost is over twice as much as a regular electric water heater.

Since my system I am planning should have excess energy from PV, I’m just thinking of getting a large (80 gal) electric water heater and have it set to heat when there is excess power being generated during the day. With the large tank, I shouldn‘t need to heat it when the sun ain’t shining. Or at least rarely.

 

[OzSolar]

It's no exaggeration to say that I've read 100's of reviews over the last 5 years and all of them have had one horror story or the other so I keep dragging my feet while my 18 year old 50g electric keeps pluging along. Maybe just a few more years baby...

Reminds me of the time that a Kohler's local service center threatened to send me to collections after they sent out a person to trouble shoot a new 12kW stationary propane generator that was acting up at a remote hunting property.

The guy the sent out was a total ass hat who couldn't bother to show up with anything even close to a manual for the particular model. He just randomly wandered around chain smoking swisher sweets and blaming the problem on a propane leak. I finally not so politely kicked him off the property. Then I figured out the problem myself which had nothing to do with a propane leak but it was a Kohler problem.

A few weeks later I get a bill for for ~$2,600. Keep in mind this was 15 years ago. I just sat on that bill and subsequent bills for many months and waited for them to call me at which point I politely explained that I don't pay for technicians that can't show up with any manuals and blame problems on propane leaks while smoking within feet of the offending leak. That was it.

 

[pvdude]

I have been reading about heat pump water heaters.
Our 17 year old A.O. Smith electric still works great, but requires 5kw to run.
Seems like HP water heater reviews are mostly fake, many paid by the competition to disparage a rival brand.
So no help using "reviews" to make a decision.

So I'm tempted to just buy lowest price, and assume the HP water heater we get is disposable.

 

[RV10flyer]

I do HVAC for a living. I repair heat pumps all the time. Guess which one I bought? $2K more in solar panels. I'm keeping my 80 gallon and 5000W resistive elements. I have a timer that turns the water heater on at noon and off at 6 PM. Add 4 inches of insulation to the water heater and you'll have hot water all day/night long as long as you're not taking 30 minute showers or more than three people in the house. Less repair cost, less up front cost and we won't be cooling our basement or crawlspace down in the winter time.

 

[RV10flyer]

I have been reading about heat pump water heaters.
Our 17 year old A.O. Smith electric still works great, but requires 5kw to run.
Seems like HP water heater reviews are mostly fake, many paid by the competition to disparage a rival brand.
So no help using "reviews" to make a decision.

So I'm tempted to just buy lowest price, and assume the HP water heater we get is disposable.

since most wh only last 10-12 years and my solar panels will probably last 20 to 25, I just bought more panels.

 

[Rennit]

Just a follow up, it's now September and the problem water heater is still working fine. (*Knocks on wood)

 

[RV10flyer]

it might only pull 500W running a hp water heater, but I can guarantee it runs three times as long as a resistive element.

 

[Rennit]

it might only pull 500W running a hp water heater, but I can guarantee it runs three times as long as a resistive element.

Probably but I can still tell a difference on power consumption with the HP isn't working. That's the only reason I even realized the first HP wasn't working because our consumption was waay up and I had to figure out what was sucking up so much power.

I may have messed up when planning my solar system because I planned a 70% system but the 70% is with both my HP water heaters working in HP mode. If even one of them goes down it makes a noticeable difference on our consumption. Honestly I wish I would have just went your route RV10flyer.

 

[Ampster]

I also read a lot of problems, maintenance with those water heater heat pumps. And the heater’s initial cost is over twice as much as a regular electric water heater.

That is a good reason for you to not buy one. The long term cost may be less depending on your electrical rate. I have used Rheem and Ruud HPWH for at least six years and the payback was less than five years.
I did have a General Electric GeoSpring HPWH that only lasted five years. GE no long makes them.

 

[pvdude]

$2K more in solar panels.

Yep.
Seems that most of the energy issues I am confronting all come back to "need more PV".
Thanks!

 

[Ampster]

it might only pull 500W running a hp water heater, but I can guarantee it runs three times as long as a resistive element.

I have plenty of time and the savings has been great. I do have high electrical rates and like that it cools my hot garage. I pull the hot air from my attic to run it. Call me a HPWH fanboy because my HPWH cost less than $2,000 in solar panels.

 

[Ampster]

Seems that most of the energy issues I am confronting all come back to "need more PV".

Conservation measures like HPWHs have greater payback than solar. It all depends on how you want to spend your money. I spend it on both after analysis.

 

[pvdude]

^^^^
The "Both" option is available for me, will proceed.

 

[ArkRob]

Mine has been great for about 3 yrs so far. Should I buy a lotto ticket, or did
I use all my luck on the water heater?

 

[Ampster]

Should I buy a lotto ticket, or did
I use all my luck on the water heater?

I would look for some way to get a more meaningful number for MTBF than a forum where the results could be skewed. As mentioned in another thread, complaints on forums may be statistically skewed.

 

[RV10flyer]

I have plenty of time and the savings has been great. I do have high electrical rates and like that it cools my hot garage. I pull the hot air from my attic to run it. Call me a HPWH fanboy because my HPWH cost less than $2,000 in solar panels.

Unfortunately, my garage is not attached to house, or I would have put one in there. So, for me, more pv worked better. I already have 6.25Ton - 4 hp's to repair/maintain and didn't want a 5th. I love my hp's and that is great that you hwhp guys are doing well with them. It's all fun and motivates me to work hard so that I can support my addiction.

 

[RV10flyer]

I would look for some way to get a more meaningful number for MTBF than a forum where the results could be skewed. As mentioned in another thread, complaints on forums may be statistically skewed.

I have seven different brands of bms's, five brands of inverters (4 hf/1lf), five different cell vendors, two brands SCC, std and bifacial arrays...just so I could try different ones. Now I'm settling on JK for new or replacement BMS's. So, it's good to have guys on here buying various heat pump water heaters so that we can make better informed purchases.

 

[adymoore]

Thanks for sharing your experience with hybrid water heaters. It's great to hear personal accounts and insights on their performance. I'll definitely keep in mind the importance of proper location and air flow for optimal functioning. Your cautionary note about potential issues in the wintertime is also valuable information. It's always helpful to learn from others' experiences before deciding. Thanks for the heads-up!

 

[beastman]

I'm tired of $4.00 + propane here in Northern CA. My tankless rheem has worked quite well for 13+ years, but this last year I likely had $1200 or so in gas. (8 people in house). I found a good deal on a 66 gallon tank hybrid AO smith. Will be building a small pad outdoors and building a utility room (6x8) (two hot water heaters, solar power to an old 40 gallon tank and then that feeds the AO smith 66 gallon in hybrid mode only). I am going to put two water softeners in the shed too (already have two AO smith's that I got for almost nothing brand new). The ao smith hybrid will be pulling the inlet from the attic in the house (120-130F in summer) and well over 100F in the winter on some days too. I did the math and at $4.00 gallon propane, i'm shaving the annual bill in half at least. I do have a solark 15k and 8k watts in panels too w/ 31kw of storage (SOK). Will be shaving hopefully another $800 per year or more, besides the hot water we use our stove a bit - but the family seems to use an instant pot now moredays than the gas oven for dinner. Still paying propane tank rental fees (2 of them) at $150/yr.