New Victron Multiplus-II 12/3000/120-50 designed specifically for RVs with 30A/50A input flexibility available MARCH 2021

snoobler

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Just heard from a friend.

Victron just had an educational session, and introduced the subject product.

Key features:
  • 12V inverter/charger (120A charging)
  • Will accept 30A or 50A input and adjust accordingly.
  • 30A input or in inverter-only mode will provide 120VAC to each leg. Power Assist feature works on both legs.
  • 50A input will deliver split phase 120/240VAC to L1 and L2 with Power Assist on L1 only.
  • Up to 6 can be paralleled
  • Can operate in 3 phase.
  • 12V only due to target market, but may consider 24V based on demand.
  • 5kW option being considered for the future
  • GX version planned for the future
  • UL458 pending (no schedule given)
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InMyImage

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Interesting... I’ll have to watch the webinar to see if they explain how it is actually different from the current MultiPlus II other than the chassis because I don’t see any features that stand out to me as different...
 

snoobler

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Interesting... I’ll have to watch the webinar to see if they explain how it is actually different from the current MultiPlus II other than the chassis because I don’t see any features that stand out to me as different...

It's designed exactly for what you want to do. The "current" Multiplus-II is not available for 120 single or 120/240VAC split. Period. The standard multiplus is ONLY 120VAC single.

30A shore is 120VAC
50A shore is 120/240VAC split phase

Freely plugging in between those two has implications as mentioned in your thread.

This unit takes that complexity and builds it in taking care of it transparently. If you plug into 50A, it just passes it through and provides power assist on L1. If you plug into 30A, it provides power assist on L1 and L2. Same if you power via a single or split phase generator.
 

InMyImage

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It's designed exactly for what you want to do. The "current" Multiplus-II is not available for 120 single or 120/240VAC split. Period. The standard multiplus is ONLY 120VAC single.

30A shore is 120VAC
50A shore is 120/240VAC split phase

Freely plugging in between those two has implications as mentioned in your thread.

This unit takes that complexity and builds it in taking care of it transparently. If you plug into 50A, it just passes it through and provides power assist on L1. If you plug into 30A, it provides power assist on L1 and L2. Same if you power via a single or split phase generator.
Ok, after looking at the input and outputs on the MultiPlus, I see where my confusion came from. It only accepts one leg but has 2 output legs so you can isolate high energy devices so they can’t overload the inverter if it switches to battery power.

Given that I already have an inverter that uses one leg, and expect to upgrade it to a second MultiPlus in the future, I’ll have to see the price bump to decide if it’s worth it, especially given that based on the info above it appears when connected to 50amp shore power, that it also only inverts one leg. 12v versus 24v is also a consideration as per my other thread ( https://diysolarforum.com/posts/227737/ for anyone interested)
 

snoobler

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Calling those legs is misleading. "Legs" implies they are at a different phase.

AC-out-1 and AC-out-2 are exactly the same AC output wave, L1 - 120VAC single phase only. AC-out-2 is just disabled when there is no AC input.

You can't go mixing/matching on different legs as they share a common neutral. If you add a second inverter, it must be exactly the same type and configured in parallel for split phase - now you have a problem. You can no longer accept 30A 120VAC single phase input into the inverters - it must be split phase. In order to use 30A shore power, you need a transfer switch that bypasses the inverters (can't charge them) and Power Assist is not an option.

Or

You could parallel them in 120V single phase, and they could provide Power Assist, but if you plug into 50A power, they have to be completely bypassed - no charging the batteries via the inverter/charger on 50A shore power.
 

InMyImage

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Calling those legs is misleading. "Legs" implies they are at a different phase.

AC-out-1 and AC-out-2 are exactly the same AC output wave, L1 - 120VAC single phase only. AC-out-2 is just disabled when there is no AC input.

You can't go mixing/matching on different legs as they share a common neutral. If you add a second inverter, it must be exactly the same type and configured in parallel for split phase - now you have a problem. You can no longer accept 30A 120VAC single phase input into the inverters - it must be split phase. In order to use 30A shore power, you need a transfer switch that bypasses the inverters (can't charge them) and Power Assist is not an option.

Or

You could parallel them in 120V single phase, and they could provide Power Assist, but if you plug into 50A power, they have to be completely bypassed - no charging the batteries via the inverter/charger on 50A shore power.
Good info, thanks.

My original thought was to actually run AC-2 to the second inverter and when power cuts it‘s ATS would kick in, but if I understand your explanation correctly, with shore power I’d still be limited to 30amps even when on a 50amp circuit but this new version of the Multiplus would be able to take advantage of the full 50amps although one of the AC outputs would not have power assist (which should be irrelevant when connected to a 50amp source) and it is limited to 12v which has other implications for BMS, fuses and wiring right?
 

fafrd

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So this is basically a 120V inverter that basically only boosts one phase when grid is present but powers both legs with the same phase when the grid goes down.

Can’t be used for backup of home wiring if any multi-wire branch circuits are used because the shared neutral isn’t rated for return current when both legs are in-phase.

For a critical loads panel with no 240V circuits or multi-wire branch circuits, it might be interesting, but 12V is a showstopper (needs to support at least 24V).

I’m also not quite understanding how you ‘plug into 30A’ or ‘plug into 50A’ - are these amperages associated with 240V split-phase versus 120V single-phase?
 

snoobler

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Good info, thanks.

My original thought was to actually run AC-2 to the second inverter and when power cuts it‘s ATS would kick in, but if I understand your explanation correctly, with shore power I’d still be limited to 30amps even when on a 50amp circuit but this new version of the Multiplus would be able to take advantage of the full 50amps although one of the AC outputs would not have power assist (which should be irrelevant when connected to a 50amp source) and it is limited to 12v which has other implications for BMS, fuses and wiring right?

Yes, Full 50A. In 30A mode, you get power assist to both legs accomplishing what you wanted.

12V might be a hassle, but if you have 4X 100Ah 12V capable w/120A BMS (overkill), that's 6000W... and thick wires... :)

So this is basically a 120V inverter that basically only boosts one phase when grid is present but powers both legs with the same phase when the grid goes down.

Can’t be used for backup of home wiring if any multi-wire branch circuits are used because the shared neutral isn’t rated for return current when both legs are in-phase.

For a critical loads panel with no 240V circuits or multi-wire branch circuits, it might be interesting, but 12V is a showstopper (needs to support at least 24V).

I’m also not quite understanding how you ‘plug into 30A’ or ‘plug into 50A’ - are these amperages associated with 240V split-phase versus 120V single-phase?

Sounds like you have it. It's targeted specifically for RVs w/50A power systems.

30A/50A refer to standard shore power connections for RVs. 30A is 120VA single phase and 50A is 120/240VAC split phase.
 

fafrd

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Sounds like you have it. It's targeted specifically for RVs w/50A power systems.
Does that mean there is a reason it cannot be used as a backup inverter for a grid-tied home application? I understand it’s only going to be able to power whatever loads are inside a critical loads panel on the other side of the inverter, but is there anything that prevents this from being connected to a mains panel (240V split-phase grid)?
30A/50A refer to standard shore power connections for RVs. 30A is 120VA single phase and 50A is 120/240VAC split phase.
For us non-RV types, calling it 120V versus 240V would have been a bit more self-explanatory...
 

snoobler

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Does that mean there is a reason it cannot be used as a backup inverter for a grid-tied home application? I understand it’s only going to be able to power whatever loads are inside a critical loads panel on the other side of the inverter, but is there anything that prevents this from being connected to a mains panel (240V split-phase grid)?

Maybe, but there are likely better, cheaper solutions that are 24 and 48V.

For us non-RV types, calling it 120V versus 240V would have been a bit more self-explanatory...

With "designed specifically for RVs" in the subject, I was speaking directly to the target audience. Additionally, the large diagrams with the voltages/currents listed in their headings are also self-explanatory.

Worth considering that your efforts to engage in the thread might have been a little lackadaisical ;)
 

snoobler

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I don't see where the big news is. Mine works like that now.

Greg

Be honest now. You have something extra in there. :)



right?
 
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