Off grid but still receive a utility bill

[Cuemaker]

Let us know how your Wind Turbine performs...

Hope to get the wind turbine up later this summer, will let you know how it performs.

 

[Cuemaker]

Like little baby pool cues? I can show myself out.


Pretty much everything Utilities do is BS, I would know, I worked for several back in the 90's and still do side work consulting on utility issues.

However they do an insanely impressive job keeping the power on to all of thier customers at a nearly 6 sigma level (99.9999). 4 Sigma is 99.99% and that is about 1 hour per yr. It's been years since I lost my power for more than one hour total in a year and that was a squirrel that committed suicide on my transformer thus only affecting me.

From my viewpoint: I'd like to offer that cost them a lot to build it and they are completely entitled to a return on that investment. Annual upkeep is no joke either, I've seen the numbers.

That's worth well more than $27.50 per month they charge me. At $50 month I'll start to get irritated but I'll keep paying it with a pretend smile on my face. $100 per month might be where I'd tell them to come get thier meter but maybe not. I've got better things to do then be my own full time utility.

Little baby pool cues? NOT! We make high quality custom pool cues.
My wife & I have been making them for 34 years, it's all we do to make a living.
I made a living playing pool for about 10 years back in the 1980's.
If you wish to find out what we make do a google search for "Blue Grass Cues"

 

[Hedges]

our small pool cue making business

 

[cs1234]

I must be the exception since I am banking on solar and battery only and have no fossil fuel generator. I do have a smallish solar generator if needed. Paying attention to energy usage would be critical if you are getting low so that you can make some effort to conserve.

You must be burning a lot of wood / pellets or something.

 

[justgary]

Isn't English fun?

"Mama, throw me down the stairs the broom."

 

[GXMnow]

Back on topic for this thread...
It looks like there is a proposal being pushed in California to lower the per kilowatt hour electric rate by 8% to 10%. But then they will charge a $24 per month fixed fee. This proposal give people who use a lot of power a discount, but people who use little grid power (SOLAR CUSTOMERS) will be forced to pay this fairly big increase in fixed fees. This change in billing actually makes it cheaper for people who use more energy. It is the opposite of what should be done to make people conserve energy.

California is changing how big power companies charge for electricity. What to expect on your bill

State regulators have decided to let investor-owned utilities impose a new flat fee on your electric bill and decrease the usage charges. But customers who typically use less energy might see an increase in their bill.

www.latimes.com

 

[dougbert]

Back on topic for this thread...
It looks like there is a proposal being pushed in California to lower the per kilowatt hour electric rate by 8% to 10%. But then they will charge a $24 per month fixed fee. This proposal give people who use a lot of power a discount, but people who use little grid power (SOLAR CUSTOMERS) will be forced to pay this fairly big increase in fixed fees. This change in billing actually makes it cheaper for people who use more energy. It is the opposite of what should be done to make people conserve energy.

California is changing how big power companies charge for electricity. What to expect on your bill

State regulators have decided to let investor-owned utilities impose a new flat fee on your electric bill and decrease the usage charges. But customers who typically use less energy might see an increase in their bill.

www.latimes.com

show me the incentives and I will show you the consequences

 

[wheisenburg]

I pay about 15 a month for the connection. I have full net metering at 100%. So not planning to disconnect.

 

[Mattb4]

Heck, the power company seems to keep increasing the amount it charges . May's energy cost was $2.48 The monthly Bill? $25.53 (A $1 average per kWh)

 

[GXMnow]

To try and cover off that $24 a month fixed fee, I would need to export more than a megawatt hour more to the grid. That's not going to happen without adding more solar panels. For me, it looks like my "No electric bill for 15 months" is going to come to an end. It is being argued and fought and probably won't go into effect until 2026, so I have a little time to work on my code to export from my DC panels. That will give me about 1/3 of the export I need.

This new fee structure is an obvious attack on people like me who have managed to zero out the electric bill under the current rules. This change allows them to flip this while still not actually violating the 15 year NEM 2.0 agreements. I will still have my ToU 100% export credit, but the credit is now REDUCED by 8% to 10% with the lower per KWH rate. So I need to net export even more to cover the taxes and charges, and then adding $24 a month to the fixed charges, it is a huge change on a low energy user like me.

 

[MajicDiver]

To try and cover off that $24 a month fixed fee, I would need to export more than a megawatt hour more to the grid. That's not going to happen without adding more solar panels. For me, it looks like my "No electric bill for 15 months" is going to come to an end. It is being argued and fought and probably won't go into effect until 2026, so I have a little time to work on my code to export from my DC panels. That will give me about 1/3 of the export I need.

This new fee structure is an obvious attack on people like me who have managed to zero out the electric bill under the current rules. This change allows them to flip this while still not actually violating the 15 year NEM 2.0 agreements. I will still have my ToU 100% export credit, but the credit is now REDUCED by 8% to 10% with the lower per KWH rate. So I need to net export even more to cover the taxes and charges, and then adding $24 a month to the fixed charges, it is a huge change on a low energy user like me.

Go off grid

 

[dougbert]

Go off grid

he is slowing adding panels, with a small yard (pics in his thread)

he IS doing a great job maximizing his resources with his hw, sw and PLC

 

[MajicDiver]

he is slowing adding panels, with a small yard (pics in his thread)

he IS doing a great job maximizing his resources with his hw, sw and PLC

I was not intending to be derogatory towards him, sorry. I totally understand, and solar is expensive unless subsidized in some manner. What the power company does is very expensive also. At $24 per month, expect it to get to 3 to 4 times that or more in some areas eventually as grid tied Solar becomes more and more common. There is no way the power company can provide a connection and guarantee power delivery on demand for $24/month - it’s being subsidized by those consumers who do not have solar.
What I am saying is, it will get to the point where small scale gridtied Solar is prohibitively expensive to keep as the various subsidies that make it possible become increasingly painful for those who have to pay for them.

 

[BKY2003]

They need to stop these county commissioners from putting taxes on the power bill. My County commissioners have done this also. In this article they are trying to get county commissioners to tax electric bills to build a zoo.

Zoological Society proposes 3% electric tax on Limestone to start building zoo - The Madison Record

By Erica Smith, Decatur Daily ATHENS — The North Alabama Zoological Society needs $65 million for the first phase of its proposed zoo in Limestone County and is hoping the County Commission will add a 3% monthly electric tax to all Athens Utilities customers, but the odds of that happening...

m.themadisonrecord.com

 

[MajicDiver]

They need to stop these county commissioners from putting taxes on the power bill. My County commissioners have done this also. In this article they are trying to get county commissioners to tax electric bills to build a zoo.

Zoological Society proposes 3% electric tax on Limestone to start building zoo - The Madison Record

By Erica Smith, Decatur Daily ATHENS — The North Alabama Zoological Society needs $65 million for the first phase of its proposed zoo in Limestone County and is hoping the County Commission will add a 3% monthly electric tax to all Athens Utilities customers, but the odds of that happening...

m.themadisonrecord.com

We are loosing the south too………

 

[cs1234]

They need to stop these county commissioners from putting taxes on the power bill. My County commissioners have done this also. In this article they are trying to get county commissioners to tax electric bills to build a zoo.

Zoological Society proposes 3% electric tax on Limestone to start building zoo - The Madison Record

By Erica Smith, Decatur Daily ATHENS — The North Alabama Zoological Society needs $65 million for the first phase of its proposed zoo in Limestone County and is hoping the County Commission will add a 3% monthly electric tax to all Athens Utilities customers, but the odds of that happening...

m.themadisonrecord.com

“And that’s what we’re asking for, funding to get up and running. We’re not saying that this (tax) is going to be here forever and it’s what’s going to fund the zoo, it’s just funding the start of the zoo.”

LOL, right.

 

[dougbert]

I was not intending to be derogatory towards him, sorry. I totally understand, and solar is expensive unless subsidized in some manner. What the power company does is very expensive also. At $24 per month, expect it to get to 3 to 4 times that or more eventually as grid tied Solar becomes more and more common. There is no way the power company can provide a connection and guarantee power delivery on demand for $24/month - it’s being subsidized by those consumers who do not have solar.
What I am saying is, it will get to the point where small scale gridtied Solar is prohibitively expensive to keep as the various subsidies that make it possible become increasingly painful for those who have to pay for them.

did not take it as negative
but wanted to praise him for his great work

 

[Hedges]

To try and cover off that $24 a month fixed fee, I would need to export more than a megawatt hour more to the grid. That's not going to happen without adding more solar panels. For me, it looks like my "No electric bill for 15 months" is going to come to an end. It is being argued and fought and probably won't go into effect until 2026, so I have a little time to work on my code to export from my DC panels. That will give me about 1/3 of the export I need.

This new fee structure is an obvious attack on people like me who have managed to zero out the electric bill under the current rules. This change allows them to flip this while still not actually violating the 15 year NEM 2.0 agreements. I will still have my ToU 100% export credit, but the credit is now REDUCED by 8% to 10% with the lower per KWH rate. So I need to net export even more to cover the taxes and charges, and then adding $24 a month to the fixed charges, it is a huge change on a low energy user like me.

Is your off-peak about $0.40 and on-peak about $0.60/kWh?
Can you charge batteries from PV off-peak then export from batteries on-peak to earn 50% higher credits?

I put some LiFePO4 batteries at $0.05/kWh over 16 years, would be $0.10/kWh amortized over 8 years, half their claimed cycle life.
Don't know how long this new party would last.

I have LG RESU-10H and may use them this way if surplus PV is insufficient. Need PTO of new PV system before adding batteries.

 

[GXMnow]

Sorry for this LONG post. I kept walking away from the compute and doing other things today, so I didn't totally stay on track typing it up.

We just switched to the higher summer rates.

On Peak 4 pm to 9 pm Weekdays $0.60
Mid Peak 4 pm to 9 pm Weekend $0.48
Off Peak 9 pm to 4 pm next day $0.37

Now as a low user, we do get a $0.10 discount on the first 400 KWHs a month. I never go over that, so all my rates are $0.10 less than those rates. But the difference between rats is the same amount, not percentage though.

My current battery system programming uses almost all of my extra solar production from my Enphase microinverters until the battery voltage reaches 56.5 volts. While the sun is up and the battery is less than 56.5 volts, the controller adjusts the charge current to keep the power export under 60 watts. 56.5 volts on my battery bank works out to only 80% SoC. This tells the XW-Pro to stop charging, and then all of my extra PV solar power begins exporting to the grid. Today, this export exceeded 2,500 watts for a while and exported well over 15 KWHs, but most of that export happens from 1 pm to 4 pm at the lowest ToU rate. From 4 pm to about 6 pm, the solar power is dropping fast and I only export about 3 KWHs at the higher rate.

Currently, my additional 2,000 watts of DC solar panel only charges my battery bank. It is charging any time the sun is on the panels, so the battery is hitting that 80% SoC mark much faster on sunny days with over 1,500 wats of real charge power comin in to the system. But when the XW stops charging from the AC coupled system, the DC panels keep charging. My current settings bring the battery to about 95% SoC hitting 57.6 volts before it drops into Absorb then float mode. I have ot of those set to hold that 57.6 volts. Today, that battery held that full 95% SoC all the way to 6:30 pm. As the AC panels stopped producing enough power to run the loads in my house, the XW goes into "Grid Support" mode and begins exporting from the battery bank. But it still takes a bit until the battery is truly discharging with the DC system still pushing some energy in. On a good sunny day like today, running just on the existing PLC program, the Victron DC charge controller only captured 7.43 KWHs because it was only in Bulk for 65% of the day. It spent 5:13 in either Absorb or Float just holding the voltage. I can only estimate, but it probably could have pulled another 3+ KWHs if it had stayed in Bulk mode.

My plan is to add another routine in the PLC that will tell the XW to export some of the power coming in from the Victron charge controller. The "problem" I have is that my PLC currently ha no way of knowing how much power is coming in from the DC panels. I was thinking I could do a vey slow current ramp up when the battery voltage goes above 57.5 volts. And a very slow ramp down again if the battery voltage falls under 57.2 volts. If it drops to 57 volts even or below, it will revert back to just exporting what is being used back in my main panel. It should work with no additional wiring or sensors.

As long as my system is producing more power than I am using, I am fine with how it is working on the current billing. But if they do impose that $24+ a month, I can force my system to export a bunch more after 4 pm each evening. What this will do is run the battery a bit lower each night, so the next day, it will take longer to get to 57.5 volts. So it won't be exporting until later, meaning closer to 4 pm. And then my extra export mode can kick in to take advantage of the higher credit rate after 4 pm. There is nothing in my NEM 2.0 agreement that says I can't export after the sun is down. It only says 16 amps max export and 900 KWHs max export over a full month. That would be exporting 30 KWHs every day. That's not going to happen. My coding brain is not quite what it was 15 years ago, so it takes me a while to write and debug it to be stable to where I will leave it alone like it is running now. Here is what my XW battery did today.


The faster discharge rate tonight was from the window A/C unit running upstairs. We got into the 90s today, so it had to run to keep that room comfortable. But that kept the Central A/C from running at all. The spikes after 9 pm were my girlfriend using her hair dryer and then microwaving a snack before she left for work. The fatter dip about 10:30 pm was the fridge defrost cycle. Today, the battery only dipped to 54.4 volts. It can safely run all the way down to 48.0 volts without hurting the cells at all. But I do know the XW battery voltage is showing a bit high. You can see it hitting 58 volts for over 4 hours. At the battery box, it never actually goes over 57.7 volts. The Victron is in float as a 57.6 volt setting, but it can creep a little above that. Since these are NMC cells, the voltage is a decent indicator of State of Charge. That low of 54.4 volts is about 72% SoC. So I only used from 95 down to 72, or just 23% of my battery capacity from 6 pm the evening before to 8 am when the sun came up this morning. Then the house ran direct from the Enphase solar panels all the way to 6 pm again.

If I manage to export another 20% of my battery capacity, that would be down to about 52% or 50.5 volts. That is off the bottom of this graph. It would take it well past 2 pm before it starts exporting the power. This would mean exporting about 6 KWHs more from battery each night in the high rate ToU time. At the difference of $0.23 at best, it would be a savings of $1.38 each day. x 30 days = $40 a month on cool but sunny days. Maybe 1/3 of the year, so 4 months? = $160 a year. This alone could cover about 1/2 of the $24 a month fee.

 

[wpns]

We have a 2kw wind turbine to get up in the air,

Let us know how that goes!

 

[Farm Boy]

The utility company sent a line man out to my home today with his bucket truck. He knocked on my door and I went out to see what he wanted. He asked me if I had power, I told him yes, just haven't used any of yours for a few months. He said it's obvious after seeing the solar panels here in the yard. He said they sent me out to check the meter to make sure it was still working. (A smart meter, is what is here). Evidently with these smart meters, they don't know if you really have power unless your using it. We chatted a while, he was nice and every thing is fine on my end as I'm not connected in any way to there line as far as they can tell. We talked about net metering verses off grid with storage. He even went as far as to say that with all the changes coming down the pike, I'd probably be better off set up like I am being off grid with storage of my own. He took the cover off the meter and checked for any obvious issues, jumpers and to see if his air blower worked. He said if this continued they probably would send out another line man in a few months to check again but he had no problem with any thing I was doing. I've been doing this now for 2 year. Slowly adding more to the point of being completely off utility, don't know why they decide to check now but I'm fine with it. May be this will ease there mind for charging the distribution line charge.

 

[Eber]

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