Off grid house build thoughts

[ericfx1984]

So I'm still working on my house... The house would be completely off-grid

I thought I had it pretty well figured out but now I have some concerns

Originally I purchased the MPP solar LVX 6048

I thought this would be a great unit and then I could just keep adding to it

But lately I've been seeing some reviews of people having failures, especially if they start paralleling inverters

So I've been thinking... Maybe a better option would be to let the LVX 6048 run the house, (lights, refrigerator, tv, stereo, ham radios, etc)

And then for any large loads buying a cheap 48 volt inverter

So I might get a four or 5,000 watt inverter to run a pair of 12,000 BTU mini splits

Or I might get another inverter just for running an electric stove

Feel like the big advantage to this is that I could always offload things if I have one of the inverters fail

I suppose another option is to get rid of the LVX 6048 since it is still brand new in the box I should be able to get a pretty decent price for it and look at something from a different company...

Thoughts? Thanks in advance

 

[timselectric]

The most popular and reliable split-phase AIO currently, is the EG4 6kxp.

 

[seneysolar]

So I'm still working on my house... The house would be completely off-grid

I thought I had it pretty well figured out but now I have some concerns

Originally I purchased the MPP solar LVX 6048

I thought this would be a great unit and then I could just keep adding to it

But lately I've been seeing some reviews of people having failures, especially if they start paralleling inverters

So I've been thinking... Maybe a better option would be to let the LVX 6048 run the house, (lights, refrigerator, tv, stereo, ham radios, etc)

And then for any large loads buying a cheap 48 volt inverter

So I might get a four or 5,000 watt inverter to run a pair of 12,000 BTU mini splits

Or I might get another inverter just for running an electric stove

Feel like the big advantage to this is that I could always offload things if I have one of the inverters fail

I suppose another option is to get rid of the LVX 6048 since it is still brand new in the box I should be able to get a pretty decent price for it and look at something from a different company...

Thoughts? Thanks in advance

If your concern is failure, then you should start out with the best equipment that you can get.
Using a cheap product is always a bit of a gamble, some work some fail.
Invest in quality, well supported products.

 

[ericfx1984]

If your concern is failure, then you should start out with the best equipment that you can get.
Using a cheap product is always a bit of a gamble, some work some fail.
Invest in quality, well supported products.

Yeah that's why I'm considering using relatively cheap inverters for non-critical loads such as air conditioners

The advantage there is if they do fail I'm just out an air conditioner for a little while no big deal

But if my main unit fails, the MPP solar LVX 6048 then the advantage is I can use the cheaper units as backup...

Overall it would add much more redundancy

 

[seneysolar]

No offense but the MPP 6048 is a cheap inverter to start with. Dont get me wrong, they have a decent track record and will probably be fine, but you are already questioning the reliability of it, so maybe this is your "spare" or secondary non critical inverter.

Consider the Midnite Rosie 7048 as a quality USA made and supported unit. Expensive yes but you wont question its reliability for full time living. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Steve_S]

Heads Up !

This is where the "Penny Wise & Dollar Foolish" ALERT is supposed to kick in.
Buy cheap & replace in <5 years, or spend the bit extra and not have to replace/upgrade for 15 years.
Will actually just did a Vid on Hybrid VS Offgrid only and the differences. He touched on a few points worthy of noting...

IN particular he touches on Consumption, the differences between LF & HF and lifespans... Although he just touched on it the points count.

 

[ericfx1984]

Heads Up !

This is where the "Penny Wise & Dollar Foolish" ALERT is supposed to kick in.
Buy cheap & replace in <5 years, or spend the bit extra and not have to replace/upgrade for 15 years.
Will actually just did a Vid on Hybrid VS Offgrid only and the differences. He touched on a few points worthy of noting...

IN particular he touches on Consumption, the differences between LF & HF and lifespans... Although he just touched on it the points count.

Good stuff... I've honestly considered getting rid of the MPP solar and looking at an EG4 6000xp...

But honestly the LVX 6048 is by no means a cheap unit... When I purchase the unit it was nearly $1,600...

And I purchased it based on one of Will's videos honestly

No I have seen some place of selling them refurbed for about $900

But cost wise they're still going for around $1,200 brand new

So pretty darn close in cost to a 6,000 XP

 

[Steve_S]

Perspective:
I use Samlex, my EVO 4024 is $2,000 USD and it is an Inverter/Charger NOT an AIO but Tier-1 and built like a tank - hence why military, fire & rescue and other critical applications use them.

Cost is relative. Victron or Schneider certainly cost more than any EGx product but you will still be using them in 10/15 years when the EGx will be scrapped & recycled long before that.

I am rural, remote and can be snowed info DAYS ! (Yes Seriously and it happens). I had to have completely reliable as my life does depend on it. I started with a "Value Grade" Inverter, very similar to AIMS 3024 and It handled me for 9 months before I changed up to Samlex. It is now running a neighbours place.

When AIO's first started appearing Will didn't like them but learned & now loves them... When I gave him info on Growatt's (before EGn MPP or any others appeared) he crapped all over them - yeah, I've been here THAT long...

 

[ericfx1984]

I'm honestly considering an EG4 6000 XP

I mean, my LVX 6048 is brand new...

What do you think the odds are that somebody would trade for an EG4 6000 XP?

Or should I just sell it and then try to get a refurbed EG4 6000 XP?

Or my barking up the wrong tree?

 

[seneysolar]

I'm honestly considering an EG4 6000 XP

I mean, my LVX 6048 is brand new...

What do you think the odds are that somebody would trade for an EG4 6000 XP?

Or should I just sell it and then try to get a refurbed EG4 6000 XP?

Or my barking up the wrong tree?

Lateral move

 

[ericfx1984]

Lateral move

Maybe... But maybe not...

The 6000 XP only use this about 1/3 of the idle consumption when compared to the LVX 6048

The 6000 XP is significantly lighter and therefore easy to deal with

The 6000 XP is newer and therefore will be easier to buy units to parallel with later

They will both meet my current needs though

 

[seneysolar]

Maybe... But maybe not...

The 6000 XP only use this about 1/3 of the idle consumption when compared to the LVX 6048

The 6000 XP is significantly lighter and therefore easy to deal with

The 6000 XP is newer and therefore will be easier to buy units to parallel with later

They will both meet my current needs though

Just thinking in terms of reliability...
Both units are well respected and proven but this forum is saturated with EG4 issues, id say more than any other brand. Probably just due to it being popular and the volume of units sold to the DIY crowd, but still, it doesn't scream reliability.

Idle consumption is an important factor for off grid, you are on the right track there.

 

[ericfx1984]

Just thinking in terms of reliability...
Both units are well respected and proven but this forum is saturated with EG4 issues, id say more than any other brand. Probably just due to it being popular and the volume of units sold to the DIY crowd, but still, it doesn't scream reliability.

Idle consumption is an important factor for off grid, you are on the right track there.

Yeah they both have their purps and cons... I don't think either would be wrong

 

[Mattb4]

It is not a bad idea to have a purpose use inverter or two. It can connect to your battery bank and be turned on with need. I have been kicking the idea around myself to get one that does 240vAC for those rare times I want to power a 240vAC appliance. My present setup only has 120vAC out of 2 - 3kW AIO's. I would not worry about idle current from such an inverter cause most of the time it would be off.

Having redundancy if you can afford it is a good Off grid strategy. When building your Off grid place keep in mind the layout of where things will go. It can be a pain trying to retrofit items such as panels and wiring runs.

 

[Steve_S]

Tossing in another item to Ponder Upon.

When you look at Victron for example, they will ALWAYS support their products, which includes the software, firmware & interoperability, even as device generations go on, just as they have.

We have seen many AIO's come out and many say their are Linkable (can be paralleled etc) and sure they often are. BUT some have found that reality, that maybe it is just "identical" models can do it. Others discovered that many won't allow for a 3000W & 5000W AIO to interop... Then of course Firmware/Software updates - are they regular & frequent and Long Term supported (5+ yrs) or just while the "model Line" is produced (common with 2nd, 3rd tier products).

Would you buy a New Car knowing that the model will only be made for 5 years and that parts may only be available for that period of time ?

 

[teal95]

Just like a car if you go cheap you can count on it breaking. You can either just put up not having it or have a spare, that you know works. The other choice is to buy premium. But at this point in solar tech growth by the time the cheap one dies there is very likely to be something better.

The number of complaints is directly related not only to the quality of the product, but the number of them in circulation, and inverse to the quality of the users. I'm betting there is an enormous difference in numbers for Victron vs EG4, and the proportion of Victron DIY is also pretty low compared to EG4 (anything).

 

[timselectric]

With research you can find the middle sweet spot.
Inexpensive and reliable.
I don't go cheap, but I always try to get the best value for my money.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

Have been off-grid for over a decade ...

Started with generator, then inverter/charger/mppt (magnum 4024) and battery-bank, then panels. Magnum 4024 inverter (LF) has been running 5+ years. Generators have changed out, battery-banks have changed out, but the inverter keeps on ticking. In my opinion, if:

- you don't want to be in the business of fiddling with power production, then get a good LF inverter from Tier-1, and have a good backup generator.

- you don't mind fiddling with the inverter every so often, then get an HF, choose the vendor wisely (CurrentConnected or similar), and have a spare (not online, but nearline).

Many things off-grid can stand to be down for awhile, but unless you live all by yourself, the family won't understand why power isn't available, 24x7, either by inverter, or by generator. Panels reduce the amount of gen time, but don't do away with the need for backup power. AIO's are less expensive, but they don't do away with the need for spares.

Hope this helps ...

 

[Quattrohead]

Are you pulling permits for your house build or not? If you are then it has to be a set of equipment that will pass inspection. You needed to determine this before you even consider your next step.

 

[ericfx1984]

Are you pulling permits for your house build or not? If you are then it has to be a set of equipment that will pass inspection. You needed to determine this before you even consider your next step.

Oh that was determined a long time ago no permits are required for this

The house is permitted... And the city is aware that I'm building a completely off-grid house in fact they approved it

But my friend the mayor said nobody would be able to inspect it because they don't know anything about it

And the inspector said he would only inspect the electrical up to the breaker box

He said he would just treat my solar connection like he would treat a generator backfeed

He also mentioned that our electrical codes here are quite old and as a result there really is no mention of it therefore they can't inspect it

So it should be fairly easy

In fact I'm on our city's planning and zoning commission...

 

[NCislander]

Can we know what state this is? I like the way they look at things, though I'm not moving, just curious.

 

[seneysolar]

Oh that was determined a long time ago no permits are required for this

The house is permitted... And the city is aware that I'm building a completely off-grid house in fact they approved it

But my friend the mayor said nobody would be able to inspect it because they don't know anything about it

And the inspector said he would only inspect the electrical up to the breaker box

He said he would just treat my solar connection like he would treat a generator backfeed

He also mentioned that our electrical codes here are quite old and as a result there really is no mention of it therefore they can't inspect it

So it should be fairly easy

In fact I'm on our city's planning and zoning commission...

Where is this paradise you speak of???

you dont have to say, but dang you got it made.

 

[ericfx1984]

Can we know what state this is? I like the way they look at things, though I'm not moving, just curious.

I'll talk about that in private message

 

[ericfx1984]

Where is this paradise you speak of???

you dont have to say, but dang you got it made.

I'll talk about that in private message

 

[42OhmsPA]

Oh that was determined a long time ago no permits are required for this

The house is permitted... And the city is aware that I'm building a completely off-grid house in fact they approved it

But my friend the mayor said nobody would be able to inspect it because they don't know anything about it

And the inspector said he would only inspect the electrical up to the breaker box

He said he would just treat my solar connection like he would treat a generator backfeed

He also mentioned that our electrical codes here are quite old and as a result there really is no mention of it therefore they can't inspect it

So it should be fairly easy

In fact I'm on our city's planning and zoning commission...

I've been staying out of this thread but following along....
Figured I should offer up the SRNE ASF or HYP as a contender for you based on this post. HYP is stackable and will require 2 to get 120V/240v ASF split phase is not parallelable yet but is supposed to be available soon.

SRNE has been along a bit longer than Luxpower and has great popularity in other countries. I did a lot of research before buying my ASF and have 0 regrets.

I still have a TP6048 (LVX-6048) hanging on the wall from when I started, it was pretty solid with some quirks, the biggest being high idle consumption and light flicker.

The ASF idle consumption isn't spectacular but it's much better than the LVX, it's also handled surge loads better.

With research you can find the middle sweet spot.
Inexpensive and reliable.
I don't go cheap, but I always try to get the best value for my money.

Absolutely 100% agree.
If I had more expertise I'd likely be in the same boat as you with parallel Growatts and a transformer.