Off grid with code approoval in Southern California

[bryanmccoy57]

Has anyone had experience with getting a completely off grid solar powered home code approved in southern california? I am developing construction plans for a new home in riverside county with completely off gid solar power (using something like using two-EG4-18k's, 4 power pro batteries and 50-60panels). I know of only one person in my area that got an occupancy permit for such a home. By off grid, I mean a home with no electrical service connection ever to the grid.

 

[glandpuck]

I did in San Diego County. I pulled permit. Home had a utility connection and grid tied solar. Utility not involved. Plan approved. Inspector came to verify conduit depths and concrete forms before pouring. After completion, inspector came to verify construction, grounding and electrical connections. Then the system was turned on. I used a master electrician, solar engineer to have plan drawn to NEC and county code. I used all UL listed items and all electrical was done in professional manner.

If you are on a property that has no electrical service, there should be no reason you cannot purchase PV products in the marketplace and provide power to your property. However, in CA, if you are connected to a utility, you cannot disconnect. If the Riverside property has utility available, and a connection is required, get it installed and then just reroute loads to your off grid.

TO ALL DIY'ERS: IF YOU CANNOT DO THE EQUIVALENT WORK TO A HIRED PROFESSIONAL (BY STUDYING, LEARNING, PLANNING, HAVING THE CORRECT TOOLS FOR THE JOB, SOME REAL EXPERIENCES, ASKING QUESTIONS), THEN YOUR PROJECT WILL APPEAR AMATEURISH AND PROBABLY NOT BE WORTH THE TIME YOU SPENT AND THE MONEY YOU SAVED AND THE PROBLEMS YOU WILL HAVE TO JUST HAVE IT DONE RIGHT AND PROPER. KNOW YOUR LIMITS. DO THE THINGS YOU CAN DO, GET PROFESSIONAL HELP WHEN YOU FEEL YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR AREA OF COMFORT.

 

[bryanmccoy57]

Hey Thanks Glandpuck
May I ask what your system generally consists of? Inverter panels, etc?

 

[glandpuck]

It consists of three arrays, ground mounted, combiner boxes, DC disconnect switch, grounding rods at arrays and inverter, charge controllers, off grid inverter, generator and battery bank and lots of heavy copper wire.

10,000 years in the future our property will be mined for copper and someone will be very wealthy digging our trenchwork!

 

[bryanmccoy57]

Thanks for that info. Sounds like you have made a significant investment there. When I spoke with Edison enginnering about what would be involved with trenching 700 feet through Very soky soils on my site to a transformer next to my building pad, the engineer actually encouraged me to go off grid rather than spending $100K plus on getting thier service. I am still engineering my system, but sounds like I will have something similar to yours. One thing I noticed is that hybrid inverters features and power capabilities are developing so quickly these days, it is hard to keep up.

 

[glandpuck]

I have no idea what the word soky means, let alone soky soils. Can you please elaborate? Could you mean soaky as in always wet?

Here's how to trench: rent an excavator with a 12 inch bucket. If necessary, rent a larger excavator that can also attach a jack hammer to the hydraulics. Then dig your trench. If you run into granite ridges, use the jack hammer. If you run into boulders, go around them or dynamite them.

If your trench fills with water, then glue together 100 foot lengths of pipe with 90 degree up turns at each end that will stick up above ground. Run your wiring through the pipe length and out the ends. Drop it into the wet trench. Do this section by section. Then, with the wire ends sticking above ground, install a ground cover electrical can and place a lot of draining rock around your conduits. Splice the wire lengths together and put the cove on the can. Can lid should be sticking above ground a few inches.

There are also non-explosive expanding demolition agents that you can use such as Geobreak.

If you have never operated a mini excavator, it will take about 3 hours to become proficient. make a measuring stick to depth check quickly. Create hand signals for those around you so you do not "bump" into them breaking their bones. Lastly, always dig along a survey string path you have staked out.

 

[bryanmccoy57]

sorry. I meant ROCKY soils.

 

[glandpuck]

sorry. I meant ROCKY soils.

Ah, here are the facts: my ground is your ground. A layer about 2-4 inches on top that is crusty. Then areas with rocks that could be 1-2" in size or bigger, like 18 inches under the top layers. Areas that could have granite ridges and areas that are packed with hard clay. I have trenched through this using the techniques I described above. My only regret was that I rented a large 105 lb jack hammer and even that could not penetrate some of the granite. I had rented a smaller mini excavator and front loader that did not accept a hydraulic jack hammer on them as an attachment. So if you get a mini excavator with a 12 inch bucket and it can accept a jack hammer you are home free. You will be able to trench down no problems and do it fast. I trenched over 700 feet in a couple of days. As for installing a grounding rod, if you can't get it into the ground with a jack hammer, then you can lay it flat in a trench, it doesn't have to penetrate 10 feet into the ground.

I also had a 12 inch auger on the mini excavator with extension to drill 36 inches into the ground to install a concrete form tube for my schedule 40 footings of the arrays. This works great. Failing that due to some weird geological formation, you can create array ballast using a 24 x 24 x 24 steel reinforced concrete blocks you pour (rent a cement mixer or buy one) for the schedule 40 post holder. I have a solar engineer who can do the design drawings if you need referral.

 

[cj5orion]

I did in San Diego County. I pulled permit. Home had a utility connection and grid tied solar. Utility not involved. Plan approved. Inspector came to verify conduit depths and concrete forms before pouring. After completion, inspector came to verify construction, grounding and electrical connections. Then the system was turned on. I used a master electrician, solar engineer to have plan drawn to NEC and county code. I used all UL listed items and all electrical was done in professional manner.

If you are on a property that has no electrical service, there should be no reason you cannot purchase PV products in the marketplace and provide power to your property. However, in CA, if you are connected to a utility, you cannot disconnect. If the Riverside property has utility available, and a connection is required, get it installed and then just reroute loads to your off grid.

TO ALL DIY'ERS: IF YOU CANNOT DO THE EQUIVALENT WORK TO A HIRED PROFESSIONAL (BY STUDYING, LEARNING, PLANNING, HAVING THE CORRECT TOOLS FOR THE JOB, SOME REAL EXPERIENCES, ASKING QUESTIONS), THEN YOUR PROJECT WILL APPEAR AMATEURISH AND PROBABLY NOT BE WORTH THE TIME YOU SPENT AND THE MONEY YOU SAVED AND THE PROBLEMS YOU WILL HAVE TO JUST HAVE IT DONE RIGHT AND PROPER. KNOW YOUR LIMITS. DO THE THINGS YOU CAN DO, GET PROFESSIONAL HELP WHEN YOU FEEL YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR AREA OF COMFORT.

Pay very close attention to last segment ! Electrical work is NOT the "oh I can do that" part of ANY job !!!
YOU WILL NOT "BEAT THE MAN",SAVE $50 BUCKS, "I'll use that wire I've had for 10 years...they'll never know",I've got a better way,etc,etc.You won't win,many have tried !

 

[glandpuck]

Pay very close attention to last segment ! Electrical work is NOT the "oh I can do that" part of ANY job !!!
YOU WILL NOT "BEAT THE MAN",SAVE $50 BUCKS, "I'll use that wire I've had for 10 years...they'll never know",I've got a better way,etc,etc.You won't win,many have tried !

Not certain what point you are trying to make. My system was designed by a solar engineer, permitted and wired by a master electrician that I hired and paid thousands of dollars for their labor. I never regretted 1 penny that I spent for expertise. I built the arrays, set the panels and glued conduit when asked and provided hands for the jack hammer. Also, operated the trencher.

In our area, an electrician charges over $100 per hour. In our locale, over 100,000 solar installations are in place. There are many businesses that stock and sell PV equipment and all of the necessary parts for assembly. A DIY person can do a good job. But they can also mess up. So can an electrician also mess up. For example, when I purchased our present home, the original electrician contractor put 2 separate staples through the jacket of the Romex in the wall. Only an arc fault and small area of singed insulation resulted, not a full blown fire. I wouldn't have even found it out except that when it happened somebody wired the neutral to the ground to have the light switch work. I had to take apart the drywall and repair to find the problem. Lots of workers cut corners on the job site. But in the end, the people doing the hiring and paying the fee have to rely on the pride and expertise of the people they hire.

The only good DIY job is one that is indistinguishable from that of a pro contractor.

 

[superchachi]

Anything is easy with the right tool...

https://www.ditchwitch.com/trenchers/ride-on/rt80/

 

[Spartan]

Though not Southern California, I can tell you about Oregon for comparisons sake. To build a properly permitted, off-grid home, you only need to procure a letter from the local utility that they could potentially bring power to the building site (at owners expense) if it was requested.

My home is such a home. We never considered building on-grid. The cost of commissioning a very robust, off-grid power system came at a fraction of the expense necessary to bring grid-power to our remote site. We couldn't be more satisfied. Good contractors and competent tradesmen meant that we passed all building inspections without drama.

 

[bryanmccoy57]

thanks for all the information