Power station attacks…..

[HowlerMonkey]

……have me a little anxious.

I have not “built my system” yet but lurking here a while and what I’m learning here greatly reduces my worry but I feel it may be time to make my move.

 

[newbostonconst]

Those that laugh will die and those that are prepared will make it....

 

[morth]

Yup, easy targets. Latest info is some transformers were shot at and they are trashed. Hopefully, there are replacements somewhat locally. otherwise those folks are going to be without power for a while. 60 minutes did a story many years ago about the vulnerability of the sub stations, noting that some of the larger transformers cannot be produced in the US any longer since the manufacturing went over seas.

 

[HowlerMonkey]

My dad's last gig in the navy reserve had him inspecting power transmission sites for the state of wisconsin.
I was worried after he told me.............and that was in 1997.

 

[morth]

Agree, part of the problem is that a lot of the transformers are not Off the Shelf units, so you may not be able get another one from another utility. We may find out how long it takes to get a custom transformer ordered/delivered before this is all said and done. Current estimates are to be able to restore some power by Thursday.

 

[HowlerMonkey]

Surely this costs more than staffing these sites with two or more employees and/or security.

The bonus of staffing these sites will be that they can lower risk by eliminating internet connectivity to critical equipment.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Yeah I saw that. The way things have turned out to be over the last couple of years has me considering possible motives and actors that I never would have considered previously. Those whom you think you should be able to trust are proving to be those that are stabbing us in the back, and other things that used to be considered fringe ideas by lunatics have shown to be more based in reality than I cared to imagine.

In short, the world feels so upside down anymore, and I trust just about no one.

This is entering the worst time of year to have to rely on alternative power options for many parts of the country also.

 

[740GLE]

Surely this costs more than staffing these sites with two or more employees and/or security.

The bonus of staffing these sites will be that they can lower risk by eliminating internet connectivity to critical equipment.

One major attack for this utility in the past what 90-100 years?

Last time I knew stations were routinely manned 24/8 was back in the 60/70s if not prob earlier for stations that didn’t have hydro generation tied to it.

Many stations aren’t designed with bathrooms so factor that into having 24/365 coverage.

Fair amount of info was released about the
Metcalf S/S attack back in 2013, no one was caught, not even a guess. My guess those responsible for that attack are sharpening their tactics.

 

[HowlerMonkey]

Still waiting to see if they only targeted the cooling systems or whether they used more powerful guns to damage the windings.

 

[morth]

Local article said the windings are damaged, the transformers are not repairable. https://www.wral.com/gunfire-damage-led-to-moore-county-blackout/20612201/.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Better hope this was a one off.. a couple of drunk idiots looking to stir up trouble. If it was a practice run, that's a different animal.

I'm going to take a guess and suggest it was someone who couldn't pay their power bill and got pissed off.

 

[morth]

Surely this costs more than staffing these sites with two or more employees and/or security.

The bonus of staffing these sites will be that they can lower risk by eliminating internet connectivity to critical equipment.

The main issue is that there's nothing a couple of guards can do to prevent someone taking a few shots from a distance at night. Most of the sub stations around here are surrounded by trees. Those that are not, are close to populated areas, so even then returning fire would be risky. Most effective thing I can think of would be some sort of concrete wall with enough height to prevent a shot taken from the ground to hit the transformers. Highway sound barrier systems might be a worth a look since they can be put in place pretty quickly. It would also make it more difficult for some of the dumb-ass people around here to climb the fences and get themselves turned to ash (yes, that happened a couple years ago around here too). The guy climbed the fences and got close enough to some of the equipment to become a path to ground. His girlfriend/date was severely burned at the fence.

 

[MurphyGuy]

The main issue is that there's nothing a couple of guards can do to prevent someone taking a few shots from a distance at night. Most of the sub stations around here are surrounded by trees. Those that are not, are close to populated areas, so even then returning fire would be risky. Most effective thing I can think of would be some sort of concrete wall with enough height to prevent a shot taken from the ground to hit the transformers. Highway sound barrier systems might be a worth a look since they can be put in place pretty quickly. It would also make it more difficult for some of the dumb-ass people around here to climb the fences and get themselves turned to ash (yes, that happened a couple years ago around here too). The guy climbed the fences and got close enough to some of the equipment to become a path to ground. His girlfriend/date was severely burned at the fence.

Why would we want to prevent that? We should be making it easier, not harder.

 

[morth]

Why would we want to prevent that? We should be making it easier, not harder.

I'm good as long as they don't bring down the station my grid section is fed from ;-) I think that incident knocked 10,000 people off line for a while.

 

[schmism]

Still waiting to see if they only targeted the cooling systems or whether they used more powerful guns to damage the windings.

more powerfull here being a misnomer here as the avg hunting rifle is easily capable of peirceing the thin metal box surrounding the windings. (source, I watch demolition ranch on youtube)

 

[SparkyJJO]

Better hope this was a one off.. a couple of drunk idiots looking to stir up trouble. If it was a practice run, that's a different animal.

I'm going to take a guess and suggest it was someone who couldn't pay their power bill and got pissed off.

I hope so too. If we get any real or even loosely coordinated attacks on stuff like that we could be in trouble real quick.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Surely this costs more than staffing these sites with two or more employees and/or security.

The bonus of staffing these sites will be that they can lower risk by eliminating internet connectivity to critical equipment.

You can stand off 1000 feet and still destroy a transformer with a rifle.

No rent a cop is set up for that.

Not to mention some of these substations are in the middle of nowhere with no infrastructure for housing said guards or getting them to the place.

Talk about a hike in rates! Let them start guarding every substation..

It was only people being nice that allowed them to operate they way they did for so long.

If someone wanted to disrupt power in the US it wouldn’t be that hard.

One shape charge on a High tension tower and suddenly millions are without power.

 

[MurphyGuy]

I hope so too. If we get any real or even loosely coordinated attacks on stuff like that we could be in trouble real quick.

I don't think repeated sub station attacks would be possible or practical. Individuals and small groups would be caught pretty quickly, and probably couldn't damage things fast enough to cause any wide spread harm or take down the grid.

It would have to be a nation sponsored thing and the planning and infiltration stages would probably be unrealistically complex. That, and as soon as power stations started to routinely come under attack, national guard units would be at every station before you could finish eating breakfast.

Seriously, this was probably a single moron who wasn't happy with something.. maybe his love life is suffering. I'd bet my barn it was a singular attack by a single person. I'd also place a wager that within the next six months, we see a copycat attack because the stupid irresponsible news media blabbered it to the entire nation.

 

[HowlerMonkey]

more powerfull here being a misnomer here as the avg hunting rifle is easily capable of peirceing the thin metal box surrounding the windings. (source, I watch demolition ranch on youtube)

“More powerful” implies bigger caliber than the 5.56/.223 used at metcalf.

 

[pvdude]

I'm not as concerned w/ the brute force attacks on the power infrastructure.
Too much exposure, logistics, chances of being seen/recorded/talked about.
My concern:
Pretty sure the Chinese already have hacked into all the systems that control the power grid in N.A.
And/or have infected stand-alone SCADA systems w/ a STUXNET type virus.

Stuxnet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

SCADA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They can turn off and blow up lots of electrical plant equipment by entering commands and causing overloads whenever they want to.
While we are distracted, they will be activating viruses/malware already placed in the SCADA systems that control it all.


SCADA networks and PLCʼs (Programmable Logic Controllers) control all the switchgear.
In spite of the fact that rules are supposed to prohibit connecting the SCADA
control networks to the INTERNET, sleepy people donʼt want to drive to the plant or remote stations@ no oʼclock, so sometimes the plant net and the public net get secretly connected.
Supervisor does not want to know how the guys fixed things that night, just that he can tell the suit “we resolved the outage in x hours”.
Firewall between the plant SCADA net and the public net?
False sense of security, firewalls.
Even if the SCADA nets are isolated, there is always some guy w/ a flash USB drive
in his pocket that gets plugged in to one of the PCʼs on the SCADA net, “just to do
this upgrade”. What else has he used that flash drive for???