Prismatic versus pouch cells?

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Prismatic versus pouch cells?

I don't know much about Pouch cells. The reason I ask is LItime has a 100ah mini that I can fit 3 in behind my converter. When I first found out it was built with pouch cells I was turned off. Honestly don't know much about them. Is there any reason to pick one cell type over the other for A install in a travel trailer. I could fit 3 of these where I need opposed to two of the group 31's https://www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-100ah-mini-lifepo4-lithium-battery-upgraded-100a-bms-max-1280wh-energy?gclid=Cj0KCQjwn9CgBhDjARIsAD15h0BZ3wfLvllJV O5casf1dPktUGD2AFnLV7fvqVmD_EXZTz87w5fq4f8aAsNBEAL w_wcB

because this in new i been unable to find a tear down on U tube. hopefully they send Will to open up.

 

[grizzzman]

Prismatic versus pouch cells?

I don't know much about Pouch cells. The reason I ask is LItime has a 100ah mini that I can fit 3 in behind my converter. When I first found out it was built with pouch cells I was turned off. Honestly don't know much about them. Is there any reason to pick one cell type over the other for A install in a travel trailer. I could fit 3 of these where I need opposed to two of the group 31's https://www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-100ah-mini-lifepo4-lithium-battery-upgraded-100a-bms-max-1280wh-energy?gclid=Cj0KCQjwn9CgBhDjARIsAD15h0BZ3wfLvllJV O5casf1dPktUGD2AFnLV7fvqVmD_EXZTz87w5fq4f8aAsNBEAL w_wcB

because this in new i been unable to find a tear down on U tube. hopefully they send Will to open up.

Pouch cells are the same as prismatic less the hard shell. If properly contained they will work just fine. Quality of the pouch and build are the real issue,

 

[RCinFLA]

Sealed metal can cells usually have the top of their pouch open to allow easy escape of electrode foil metal.

Sealed pouch cells have to have their foil current collector layers combined to a single flat lead prior to leaving pouch.

Pouch from a metal container cell: Top of cell.


Bottom of metal container cell pouch.

 

[mikefitz]

Pouch cell failure,

Inflated/swollen lifepo4 battery

Hi from France ?? I'm posting something in this forum because I couldn't find any information on french websites, if you look around, you only find sites that are not related to that problem. So, I'm off grid for 3 years, living in a rv on 5 solar panels, 1 for my 12v system, and 4 100w 12v...

diysolarforum.com

 

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Pouch cells are the same as prismatic less the hard shell. If properly contained they will work just fine. Quality of the pouch and build are the real issue,

The quality of the build is what concerns me. This is litime first pouch cell battery build. I have been emailing several times for look inside. I asked them to send me pictures or sent a Battery to one of the youtubers to tear down.. their response is.
"Hi Michael,
Sorry, I was told that the pictures have been patented and cannot be disseminated.

Pls undertstand us as well."

I think I going to pass. I guess if i want to know what's in my battery I better build it myself.

 

[Rednecktek]

the pictures have been patented and cannot be disseminated.

Uuummm... I'm pretty sure patent law doesn't work that way.

Red flag!

 

[meetyg]

Prismatic vs Pouch LiFePO4 Batteries: Which is the Best for Your RVs,

Looking for the right LiFePO4 battery for your RV, boat, or solar home? This article compares the advantages and disadvantages of prismatic and pouch LiFePO4 batteries to help you make an informed decision. Explore the differences and find out which is best for your specific needs.

www.litime.com

Litime has a blog to explain pouch cell battery

I beg to differ about them saying that pouch cells are safer vs prismatic.

I think it comes down mainly to weight/energy density per kg.

 

[Wjm1964]

Pouch cells are the exact same chemistry and have been used in laptops, mobile phones etc for a long time.

 

[BradCagle]

I've done teardowns of these if you guy's are interested

The Redodo as well:

Seems the case, and fixture are purpose built to keep the cells safe

 

[Dave911]

I have read that the prismatic hard shell cells were developed for the automotive industry?
Flypower, the company that makes Moseworth and Kepworth batteries seem to use pouch cells in even their group 27 size,12 volt, 100 AH batteries. I have a Moseworth bouncing around in the back of my car and its has worked fine so far. I bought it because it was one of the cheap 100ah batteries that has low temperature charging protection. I believe that Kepworth has a 5 year warranty of sorts and I believe that Moseworth has a 5 year warranty as well.

As stated, many of the "mini" batteries, for which many companies are charging a premium, contain pouch cells as well.

I know the Redodo Mini has pouch cells and I believe that Will just did a review on the LiTime Mini battery and that has pouch cells as well.

For a battery that you buy assembled, is there any reliability issues with NOT having prismatic cells as part of the assembly?

Will didn't bash the Li Time Mini battery with the pouch cells, so apparently not?

If not then I will likely buy another Moseworth battery with low temp protection. It will live in an unheated environment and power a Raspberry PI and a camera for remote viewing of my boat while it lives through the winter outside. I will use a 100 watt solar panel to it to keep it charged up.

 

[Rednecktek]

From seeing the videos of teardowns it seems the smaller LFP batteries really get their space savings from NOT putting the 2" blocks of foam on every side. I've always wondered about the energy density but until either @Will Prowse or @BradCagle whips out a measuring tape and lists the LxWxH of a 100Ah 12v pouch cell pack VS a 100Ah prismatic cell pack, it's only a guess.

Granted, in our world, making a DIY pouch cell battery looks like a real PITA! ?

 

[Will Prowse]

Pouch cells are the same as prismatic less the hard shell. If properly contained they will work just fine. Quality of the pouch and build are the real issue,

Exactly, pouch cells require a case that will not allow them to expand or contract excessively. And build quality of everything else.

But they work fine

 

[BradCagle]

From seeing the videos of teardowns it seems the smaller LFP batteries really get their space savings from NOT putting the 2" blocks of foam on every side. I've always wondered about the energy density but until either @Will Prowse or @BradCagle whips out a measuring tape and lists the LxWxH of a 100Ah 12v pouch cell pack VS a 100Ah prismatic cell pack, it's only a guess.

Granted, in our world, making a DIY pouch cell battery looks like a real PITA! ?

Here's the cells from the Mini batteries. 4 cell group = 100Ah

 

[Will Prowse]

 

[Dave911]

I saw a tear down of a Redodo mini on Youtube and it had the aluminum plates on both sides with bolts connecting the plates to provide some compression to the pouch cells. But I don't think I saw that on the Li Time teardown that Will put up on Youtube several days ago. So perhaps the alum plates and bolts are an overkill? I saw a Kepworth teardown on Youtube that had the pouch cells and that one did not have the plates and bolts either. Looks like pouch cells are likely the future for compact batteries.

 

[Will Prowse]

I saw a tear down of a Redodo mini on Youtube and it had the aluminum plates on both sides with bolts connecting the plates to provide some compression to the pouch cells. But I don't think I saw that on the Li Time teardown that Will put up on Youtube several days ago. So perhaps the alum plates and bolts are an overkill? I saw a Kepworth teardown on Youtube that had the pouch cells and that one did not have the plates and bolts either. Looks like pouch cells are likely the future for compact batteries.

Yes it has the plates. If it didn't I would consider that a massive issue.

 

[Dave911]

Yes it has the plates. If it didn't I would consider that a massive issue.

OK, I missed that somehow. Thanks for the correction.

 

[BradCagle]

OK, I missed that somehow. Thanks for the correction.

Yes, Redodo, LiTime, and PowerQueen MINI's all have the compression plates. They all have the same guts, case, BMS, etc..

 

[jspann]

Yes, Redodo, LiTime, and PowerQueen MINI's all have the compression plates. They all have the same guts, case, BMS, etc..

From LiTime brochure:
[Upgraded BMS and Battery Cells】After 14 years of research and testing, the 12.8V 100Ah mini version finally adopts the BMS that LiTime created, giving the battery powerful and stable performance throughout every cycle.

This new bms needs a deep dive.

 

[BradCagle]

From LiTime brochure:
[Upgraded BMS and Battery Cells】After 14 years of research and testing, the 12.8V 100Ah mini version finally adopts the BMS that LiTime created, giving the battery powerful and stable performance throughout every cycle.

This new bms needs a deep dive.

LOL, check this out. TimeUSB battery with LiTime silkscreened on the BMS