diy solar

diy solar

Problems with Eg4 6500ex buyer beware.

Gavin Stone

Solar Addict
Joined
Mar 5, 2022
Messages
705
Location
VA
First time posting here. But I’ve definitely gained a lot of knowledge from everyone. I’ve been using a pair of LV6548’s in split phase for 10 months without issue. They are solid units. We are essentially off grid at this point and just use grid as a backup during extended cloudy or rainy weather. I removed my bonding screws on the units after some discussion with Ian at Watts247. I’m pushing the limits of my VOC in the winter so I decided to purchase a pair eg46500’s. They have double the VOC and what looked like some other decent upgrades. I loved having the larger wire terminals for the ac input and output. And the pv connections were also a good upgrade.

The actual inverters performance was disappointing at best. My lights on dimmers were strobing none stop. Some of the LED lights had a shimmer. I checked all my settings and they were the same as the LV’s. It also didn’t seem to matter whether the inverters were under load or not. Seemed to be a problem with inconsistent voltage or a sine wave issue.

I called signature solar tech support, and they informed me that that was “normal” for these inverters. So I explained I have a pair of Lv’s without a problem that I just removed. They informed me that if the lights bother me, to just remove the dimmer switches. In other words, mask the actual problem. Which is something more serious. Eventually, whatever is going on with them will fry sensitive electronics. The only difference I knew of is the bonding screw I removed in the LV’s. So although I wouldn’t think that would be the problem, I asked if I could remove the screws in the EG4’s. They agreed. There isn’t a bonding screw in the new units btw. I sent them a photo of the empty slot, and they seemed genuinely surprised. Which is a bit scary to me that they didn’t know what is inside their own products.

I asked for a return label since i wouldn’t be using the units. They transferred my case to tier 2 tech support. And there I sat, in limbo. I waited around 3 weeks and realized they never actually intended to do whatever it is that tech support was supposed to do. I didn’t need support. I had already removed the units. They didn’t respond to emails. And I could no longer reach them on the phone. So I asked customer service to check into my case. They said to wait for the “process”. Anyway, the process never happened. I eventually returned the inverters on my own dime. They charged a 40% restocking fee. I called again to see if tech support could finish the “process” now and give me an actual refund. The location of the inverters didn’t really matter either way. They had been off the wall nearly a month. But because I interrupted the “process” they wouldn’t consider it.

Signature solar is knowingly selling equipment that has issues. Tier 1 tech support considers it “normal”. But someone up the chain must know it’s a real problem. Since then, I’ve talked with others that have put a scope on them, and apparently it isn’t a pure sine wave they are generating. I haven’t seen the video of the scope yet. But I definitely wouldn’t be surprised. If there is a problem, don’t advise people to remove the symptom. I left a 1-star review on their website describing the experience with the inverters, and it was removed. Anyway, in summary, avoid signature solar. Customer services and sales are the only extensions that actually answer the phone. They sell equipment with known problems. And just generally don’t seem to care at all. I’ve never dealt with anywhere quite like it. Typically, a place with that poor of service would probably go out of business. But with the solar industry booming, they seem to be thriving.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not easy reading through your Wall of Text. Understand that I am not an apologist for SS in any way (I find troubling the number of reports of clueless customer service techs.). However from your account you did try to short circuit the process (albeit stalled for an unreasonable length of time) by shipping back the AIOs without getting a return authorization. I can not imagine how you thought that was a good idea.

I have never been a customer of SS. But I have been a customer of other places and frankly with a few exceptions I have seen worse.
 
There are definitely some LED lights and dimmers even from name brands, that are straight trash. I had some warm color Phillips bulbs I bought two years ago. They flickered out of the box before I had solar. I had bought 8 of them and trashed them all immediately.
 
Not easy reading through your Wall of Text. Understand that I am not an apologist for SS in any way (I find troubling the number of reports of clueless customer service techs.). However from your account you did try to short circuit the process (albeit stalled for an unreasonable length of time) by shipping back the AIOs without getting a return authorization. I can not imagine how you thought that was a good idea.

I have never been a customer of SS. But I have been a customer of other places and frankly with a few exceptions I have seen worse.
I appreciate you taking the time to read through original post despite the lack of spacing in between paragraphs. It shows true grit. To be honest I didn’t expect to have any resolution from tech support or customer service. After nearly a month I don’t think they were intending to respond. My point was, if there was actually some type of response that would eventually be given, then why couldn’t it be given now? Whatever type of words or procedures they were supposedly going to use wouldn’t be hampered by having the inverters back in their possession. Im sorry you’ve been treated worse by other companies in the past. I haven’t ever seen a large growing company able to function how they are and still continue upward growth. It’s amazing really. But we all have different experiences I suppose.
 
There are definitely some LED lights and dimmers even from name brands, that are straight trash. I had some warm color Phillips bulbs I bought two years ago. They flickered out of the box before I had solar. I had bought 8 of them and trashed them all immediately.
I’m sure that’s true. But they all function clean with my LV6548’s. And to be clear. I’m not concerned about my lights. I’m concerned about the voltage and a pure sine wave.
 
I’m still waiting for a reply from SS on an EG4 technical question about an order sitting in my shopping cart, and while I was waiting, I used my time to have multiple same day or next day email exchanges w Current Connected and a lengthy same day phone conversation with Trophy Battery. I’ve have since received equipment from both vendors. The only thing I’ve heard from SS were twice daily “time is running out” emails about my cart, and then a shit ton of mail chimp spam.

My opinion and experience with reputable vendors who primarily rely on web-based retail sales is that the cadence of information exchange does not change as customer status progresses from order picking, to shopping cart, to shipping, to receipt, to installation, to use, and in some cases, to technical support and warranty return.

Reputable vendors who have well-greased order rails and sales support pre-order, have the same rails greased while the order is pending, when shipped, and when installed. Bad vendors seem to have the whole customer service chain chain inverted - they’re quick to take your money and (usually) ship, but then subsequently constrain the customer service relationship with a raft of excuses, including “process” rationales purposed to deflect attention away from the faulty product that’s the actual reason for the “process” in the first place.

“Re-stocking” charges in a web-based-retail setting are total bullshit, in my opinion, and should only be applied where circumstances reasonably warrant penalizing a customer acting in bad faith for a protracted period of time, or wholesale/commercial settings in which the vendor incurs actual costs to process and fulfill a special order. I’ve paid restocking charges where I asked a vendor to stock something on a one-off basis and then returned the item. Restocking charges should NEVER be applied to warranty returns of defective equipment.
 
I appreciate you taking the time to read through original post despite the lack of spacing in between paragraphs. It shows true grit. To be honest I didn’t expect to have any resolution from tech support or customer service. After nearly a month I don’t think they were intending to respond. My point was, if there was actually some type of response that would eventually be given, then why couldn’t it be given now? Whatever type of words or procedures they were supposedly going to use wouldn’t be hampered by having the inverters back in their possession. Im sorry you’ve been treated worse by other companies in the past. I haven’t ever seen a large growing company able to function how they are and still continue upward growth. It’s amazing really. But we all have different experiences I suppose.
If you did not expect any resolution of the problem how did you expect that they would not charge you a restocking fee?

However I agree with you that bad customer service should hurt a company. If you want to see one that it does not just deal with T-Mobile. They pretend to not recieve back items even after following all the proper processes. Now imagine that SS denied ever receiving your inverters back?
 
I’m still waiting for a reply from SS on an EG4 technical question about an order sitting in my shopping cart, and while I was waiting, I used my time to have multiple same day or next day email exchanges w Current Connected and a lengthy same day phone conversation with Trophy Battery. I’ve have since received equipment from both vendors. The only thing I’ve heard from SS were twice daily “time is running out” emails about my cart, and then a shit ton of mail chimp spam.

My opinion and experience with reputable vendors who primarily rely on web-based retail sales is that the cadence of information exchange does not change as customer status progresses from order picking, to shopping cart, to shipping, to receipt, to installation, to use, and in some cases, to technical support and warranty return.

Reputable vendors who have well-greased order rails and sales support pre-order, have the same rails greased while the order is pending, when shipped, and when installed. Bad vendors seem to have the whole customer service chain chain inverted - they’re quick to take your money and (usually) ship, but then subsequently constrain the customer service relationship with a raft of excuses, including “process” rationales purposed to deflect attention away from the faulty product that’s the actual reason for the “process” in the first place.

“Re-stocking” charges in a web-based-retail setting are total bullshit, in my opinion, and should only be applied where circumstances reasonably warrant penalizing a customer acting in bad faith for a protracted period of time, or wholesale/commercial settings in which the vendor incurs actual costs to process and fulfill a special order. I’ve paid restocking charges where I asked a vendor to stock something on a one-off basis and then returned the item. Restocking charges should NEVER be applied to warranty returns of defective equipment.
I’ve dealt with current connected and watts247. Both reply within a couple hours with tech support and feedback.

I had seen some negative reviews about signature solar, but then you see a few replies from people saying “that’s never been the case for me” and I foolishly rolled the dice. It’s a shame really. They are constantly coming out with new material and tech, meanwhile they don’t even know what’s inside their existing tech.

It reminds me of what one older contractor told me once, “people often don’t remember you by the job you’ve done, but by the mess you left afterwards”. Eventually the bad reviews have to have an impact on a company. Even if they suppress the reviews on their own website. Word spreads.
 
If you did not expect any resolution of the problem how did you expect that they would not charge you a restocking fee?

However I agree with you that bad customer service should hurt a company. If you want to see one that it does not just deal with T-Mobile. They pretend to not recieve back items even after following all the proper processes. Now imagine that SS denied ever receiving your inverters back?
I didn’t say the restocking fee was unexpected. I know they typically charge 5% for returns. I just think it’s ridiculous in this case given that this is a known issue they deal with every day. The whole thing seemed to be an obvious stalling technique.

Definitely wouldn’t do business with T mobile! What a nightmare that sounds like.
 
There are some LED lights that require matching (or compatibility) to various models of dimmer switches. When I redid my kitchen and den a few years back, the contractor didn't match the brands and some of the lights were borderline for the dimmers we installed. When running on an inverter, it is possible that some of this borderline mismatching could be coming into play, despite the fact that they ran fine on the other MPP units. Checking the inverter waveform and comparing it to the grid could help troubleshoot these issues if you experience this again. I know if I set my dimmers too low, I will get occasional flickering on the LEDs. It's not consistent, but it can be a bit annoying. I just raise the dimmers a bit and it usually goes away.
 
There are some LED lights that require matching (or compatibility) to various models of dimmer switches. When I redid my kitchen and den a few years back, the contractor didn't match the brands and some of the lights were borderline for the dimmers we installed. When running on an inverter, it is possible that some of this borderline mismatching could be coming into play, despite the fact that they ran fine on the other MPP units. Checking the inverter waveform and comparing it to the grid could help troubleshoot these issues if you experience this again. I know if I set my dimmers too low, I will get occasional flickering on the LEDs. It's not consistent, but it can be a bit annoying. I just raise the dimmers a bit and it usually goes away.
I don’t think I’m able to post videos in the forum. But I took one of the strobing. It was pretty substantial. Whereas the LV’s run everything like fine as does the grid. With the exception of a large inductive load which can occasionally make the lights flicker for a second with the mpp’s . I don’t believe it’s a capability issue. It seems to me the dimmers are just more sensitive to whatever feedback or voltage issues those inverters have.

I didn’t want to invest in a scope since it seemed they have obvious issues anyway. I’m definitely not alone in this. I made a YouTube video about it last week and have received feedback from multiple people with the same problem.
 
You can post a link to your YouTube video. By the way flickery jumpy nervous LED lamps are not restricted to any particular inverter, my builder grade cheap and nasty pancakes flicker with my solark inverter. I have tried different dimmers and there does not seem to be much difference between them all, good quality bulbs seem to be the best solution.
 
I’ve dealt with current connected and watts247. Both reply within a couple hours with tech support and feedback.

I had seen some negative reviews about signature solar, but then you see a few replies from people saying “that’s never been the case for me” and I foolishly rolled the dice. It’s a shame really. They are constantly coming out with new material and tech, meanwhile they don’t even know what’s inside their existing tech.

It reminds me of what one older contractor told me once, “people often don’t remember you by the job you’ve done, but by the mess you left afterwards”. Eventually the bad reviews have to have an impact on a company. Even if they suppress the reviews on their own website. Word spreads.

The above is certainly a fair critique. SS is learning the growing pains of sales growth outpacing hiring and technical experience.

I am a MechE who has been a field service guy and now I run technical service teams for North America. It is exceptionally hard to catch up to customer demand of a technical nature in the US today. The job market is very tight and brutal for high skilled hands on people. Combine that with there is no way to become a great phone tech or remote engineer without pure experience by fire. You can train people all you want, but they don't really cut their teeth until they are on their own learning the product.

The reality is it will be 1-2 years for SS to build a tech support team and catch up, IMO.
 
I think I saw Will with a little Oscope.. maybe he would be able to check the output of the 6500's to show the Sine wave form? Sig Solar should have done this. I wrote them about the crazy App they have even though I've got it working it doesn't always work and if super slow to show changes.

Let's keep optomistic.. maybe we can resolve this.

I too need to remove the Bonding screw in my single 6500. I'm off grid and just feeding a few things directly in the house.. ie furnace and two fridges and my Ham/computer shack (office). Also some emergency heaters. I do have a generator for the whole house but this solar stuff is fun.

I show continuity from case to ground lugs. Not good and I read in the forum that it will violate my warranty if I screw with it... That's sad.
 
You can post a link to your YouTube video. By the way flickery jumpy nervous LED lamps are not restricted to any particular inverter, my builder grade cheap and nasty pancakes flicker with my solark inverter. I have tried different dimmers and there does not seem to be much difference between them all, good quality bulbs seem to be the best solution.
 
It would have been interesting to understand what was the cause. Switching from my growatt 12k to the 6500ex eliminated strobing. Blender and mini oven would cause the 12k a small amount of that. I have dimmers as well but nothing in the house affects the 6500ex even pushing them to 17kw for 5+ hours and they ran perfectly.
 
I think I saw Will with a little Oscope.. maybe he would be able to check the output of the 6500's to show the Sine wave form? Sig Solar should have done this. I wrote them about the crazy App they have even though I've got it working it doesn't always work and if super slow to show changes.

Let's keep optomistic.. maybe we can resolve this.

I too need to remove the Bonding screw in my single 6500. I'm off grid and just feeding a few things directly in the house.. ie furnace and two fridges and my Ham/computer shack (office). Also some emergency heaters. I do have a generator for the whole house but this solar stuff is fun.

I show continuity from case to ground lugs. Not good and I read in the forum that it will violate my warranty if I screw with it... That's sad.
The older versions did have the bonding screw installed. So you’d need specific permission from tech support to remove them. But if you’re willing to wait long enough you can get it. It’s extremely easy to remove them. The newer units come with the screw removed already.
 
Back
Top