EG4 6500ex parallel - I am done with Signature Solar

[Adam De Lay]

12) This is the first "unknown" setting I am hitting. One evening with tech support we set this up to 51v, which is the max, and the system charged for about 4 hours, quit and hasn't charged again. Another tech said raising this number shouldn't have anything to do with charging.

Yeah, this option doesn't have anything specifically to do with charging. When your voltage (or SOC if you have battery communication set up) drops below this level, your inverter will switch all your loads over to AC IN to power your loads. Then once the value for option 13 is hit, it will switch back to batteries to be supplying your load.

I do wonder though if the reason your batteries charged for 4 hours was due to that "gotcha" I mentioned. You were in a "utility" mode for 4 hours and your system allowed charging from solar and AC IN.

Here's 2 things I would try.
1. Throw the solar disconnect switch to ensure that no PV is coming in at all (if the inverters detect any, it won't charge from AC IN). Then fire up your generator and see if charging begins.
2. Switch option 1 to USB and then fire up the generator and see if charging begins. Be aware in this mode, the generator will also be running the loads while charging the batteries.

 

[Texas-Mark]

I'm not sure why so many people are bagging on the OP'er for "tidiness". Other than the balance wires, IMO it's a lot better than many of he setups I've seen here.

 

[LakeHouse]

Good morning Adam, here is what I have now:

1) SBU
2) 60A
5) USE
11) 30A
12) This is the first "unknown" setting I am hitting. One evening with tech support we set this up to 51v, which is the max, and the system charged for about 4 hours, quit and hasn't charged again. Another tech said raising this number shouldn't have anything to do with charging.
13) 54v
16) SNU
29) Another tech suggested changing this setting, but his advice was vague in an email. I have it set to 48v, which is default.

This all seems appropriate. I used similar settings in an EG4 6000ex, and it charged with my Predator 8750 with no problem.

If it is the boxes, I would love to just exchange because my whole shack is designed around parallel 6500s. Not a huge deal, but this system is what I had in mind when I started.

Thanks for the help!!!!!! If I can just get the batteries to charge I can finish and start tidying up my install.

Then the pump house system....

For setting #1, switch to USb. This is somewhat counterintuitive, but everyone that's operating off-grid should use this setting. There's normally not 'utility' available, so the inverter runs correctly off of solar with this setting... But when there IS 'utility' available, it means you're running your generator and so you almost certainly want the inverter to take full advantage of that. This will make 12 and 13 irrelevant - when the generator is running, the inverter will use it.

 

[LakeHouse]

2. Switch option 1 to USB and then fire up the generator and see if charging begins. Be aware in this mode, the generator will also be running the loads while charging the batteries.

Adam is right that the genny runs the loads.
This is true of my AiO, and might be true of this one as well: They can either be inverters (DC - to - AC) or converters (AC - to - DC), but not both at the same time. So in 'converter' mode, when AC is charging the battery, it must also power the loads.

 

[Crowz]

For setting #1, switch to USb. This is somewhat counterintuitive, but everyone that's operating off-grid should use this setting. There's normally not 'utility' available, so the inverter runs correctly off of solar with this setting... But when there IS 'utility' available, it means you're running your generator and so you almost certainly want the inverter to take full advantage of that. This will make 12 and 13 irrelevant - when the generator is running, the inverter will use it.

Seems like @42OhmsPA said he had to switch his tp6048 to usb or maybe sub in place of sbu to get it to run on the generator.

 

[SeaGal]

Other than the balance wires, IMO it's a lot better than many of he setups I've seen here.

IMHO, its the prismatics that are of concern. They are not insulated between each other and not supported in any manner.

 

[Surferdudemi]

Should definitely have something between the cells. The case of each cell is tied to the positive terminal (on my Envision cells), so when you've got cells connected together, case metal making contact between cells will short out one of the cells. That blue PVC will insulate them temporarily, but I would not trust it longer term. Likewise, if you get water around the cells, you're going to have a problem; some cells don't have PVC fully covering the bottoms.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Seems like @42OhmsPA said he had to switch his tp6048 to usb or maybe sub in place of sbu to get it to run on the generator.

Yes USB and I had to connect a load to the generator to stabilize the voltage. I also switched to APL or whatever the more lenient voltage range was called.

 

[timselectric]

IMHO, its the prismatics that are of concern. They are not insulated between each other and not supported in any manner.

They are supported by nice thick lumber.
Mine are fine on OSB. Which isn't nearly as strong.
There are two layers of blue wrap between them. I don't see a problem, unless there is a lot of vibration.
But, it doesn't appear to be a mobile installation.
So, I wouldn't expect them to move around.
There are definitely situations that require extra precautions. But I don't see any problems for where they are at.
This is just my opinion.
And there's nothing wrong with going over and above what is necessary.

 

[Onehand]

They are supported by nice thick lumber.
Mine are fine on OSB. Which isn't nearly as strong.
There are two layers of blue wrap between them. I don't see a problem, unless there is a lot of vibration.
But, it doesn't appear to be a mobile installation.
So, I wouldn't expect them to move around.
There are definitely situations that require extra precautions. But I don't see any problems for where they are at.
This is just my opinion.
And there's nothing wrong with going over and above what is necessary.

Do these batteries handle cold temperatures ok?

 

[timselectric]

Do these batteries handle cold temperatures ok?

Depends on how cold.
Below freezing, they shouldn't be charged. Without having a way to keep them warm.

 

[JohnPickett]

I'm not sure why so many people are bagging on the OP'er for "tidiness". Other than the balance wires, IMO it's a lot better than many of he setups I've seen here.

Thanks Mark, I think like most folks I wired it up and turned it on to see if it works. It doesn't....so I haven't gone on to tidying it up, because there is a significant chance this is all coming out.

 

[JohnPickett]

Do these batteries handle cold temperatures ok?

Not at all. I live at 2500ft in Apple Hill California, so below snowline, and probably have fewer than 15 days below freezing. My batteries are in a tiny shack that gets heated by the inverters if necessary. Mostly I am trying to keep things cool.

 

[JohnPickett]

Yeah, this option doesn't have anything specifically to do with charging. When your voltage (or SOC if you have battery communication set up) drops below this level, your inverter will switch all your loads over to AC IN to power your loads. Then once the value for option 13 is hit, it will switch back to batteries to be supplying your load.

I do wonder though if the reason your batteries charged for 4 hours was due to that "gotcha" I mentioned. You were in a "utility" mode for 4 hours and your system allowed charging from solar and AC IN.

Here's 2 things I would try.
1. Throw the solar disconnect switch to ensure that no PV is coming in at all (if the inverters detect any, it won't charge from AC IN). Then fire up your generator and see if charging begins.
2. Switch option 1 to USB and then fire up the generator and see if charging begins. Be aware in this mode, the generator will also be running the loads while charging the batteries.

Copy....I have a feeling this is going to solve the problem. The Chargeverters are on backorder, but they have a refurb one that they are willing to sell me for full retail price.....no kidding....but I get it earlier than the backorder.

Truly thanks for your help. I am 2000 miles from my inverter and can't try this for 5 days. But I have a feeling you solved my problem.

 

[JohnPickett]

Yes USB and I had to connect a load to the generator to stabilize the voltage. I also switched to APL or whatever the more lenient voltage range was called.

Oh man, this is it!!! You and Adam nailed it. I am 2000 miles from the inverters and can't try now....but I think this is the rest of the answer.

 

[JohnPickett]

Sleeving on ground wires is not required in the USA, beats the shit out of me but there you go LOL

Beats the shit out of me!!! Why do I have to search for green wire??? Grrrrrr....Its stuff like this that drives me bat shit crazy.

Its a three hour drive to get to a West Marine with a competent wire selection, so this is on the list.

Seems like folks missed that my neutral out is black with some white tape bands.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Oh man, this is it!!! You and Adam nailed it. I am 2000 miles from the inverters and can't try now....but I think this is the rest of the answer.

I hope it works. I spent ~20 minutes, in a snow storm, figuring it out. ?
If it wasn't mentioned also keep charging amperage low to start, ~5-10 Amps, and bring it up gradually once they accept generator power. You'll hear the generator find a sweet spot. Battery charging voltage x charging amperage x inefficiencies = generator wattage.
Remember you'll also be powering your house loads from the generator. Mine was not happy when I tried starting the dryer while charging in pass through...

Seems like folks missed that my neutral out is black with some white tape bands.

? You did a better job than I did.
I wrapped mine with white as well since I was shipped 2 blacks.

 

[timselectric]

Seems like folks missed that my neutral out is black with some white tape bands.

That's the typical way of marking the neutral.
And meets code for #4 and larger conductors.
I would be more concerned that those conductors are not protected in conduit. But maybe that's just temporary.

 

[JohnPickett]

Probably too late now to try and use a chargeverter. Few high freq inverters play nice with generators, especially cheap generators with high THD numbers. If it would have ever charged using the generator and a chargverter, likely it never will now.

Unless you are using a 25kWh generator, (or better) with THD less than, I believe 2%, straight to the inverter, you probably smoked the thing.

Dude, just a suggestion...speaking in acronym is not helpful.

I'd just get a chargeverter since its already installed.

It will happily run off any generator you have so your future proof on whatever you might end up swapping to also so its a safe bet too.

Crowz, Signature Solar is sending me a used Chargeverter for $320 pls shipping. I found a Mean Well NPB-1700-48. It would be an extra $150. What do you think?

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[Crowz]

Dude, just a suggestion...speaking in acronym is not helpful.

Crowz, Signature Solar is sending me a used Chargeverter for $320 pls shipping. I found a Mean Well NPB-1700-48. It would be an extra $150. What do you think?

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Chargeverter can put out 75 amps more than the mean well. I'd stick with the chargeverter. The plus side of the mean well is it works with stuff other than 48 volts but if your doing 48 volts only I'd stick with the chargeverter. Also you can control the power output on the chargeverter which makes it compatible with a wide range of generators.