Pulled The Trigger on a 100ah Battery

[unsubscribed]

Yeah, I know the feeling. I've only been dinking with this stuff since last summer. But if I knew then what I know now, I would have made a few different choices from the start.

The last step of Problem Solving - which almost no one ever seems to do - is "Evaluate Results." Did I make a good decision.

At first, I was looking for the best "deals" (that is, cheapest). But I am settling down, biting the bullet and buying the more expensive stuff, and am content with my most recent decisions. (Thanks, in part, to the data in this forum.) Maybe it's because I built a (real) airplane - or because I'm now an old pilot ("There are bold pilots, and there are old pilots. But there are no old, bold pilots"). So I am willing to pay a little more now for a product that won't fail in flight.

 

[JoeHam]

At first, I was looking for the best "deals" (that is, cheapest). But I am settling down, biting the bullet and buying the more expensive stuff, and am content with my most recent decisions.

Been there, done that for sure. As have many on the forum. It’s hard to patiently gain knowledge to make sound decisions when the human tendency is to buy stuff, slap it together and get gratification immediately.

Or, as they say:

Good judgment comes from experience.

Experience comes from bad judgment. ?

 

[ashelby]

I'm the brand owner (Aric) and yes the 100Ah can in fact be connected in series (up to 48 volts) or parallel up to 400Ah.

We coincidentally use the same BMS (in both the plastic and metal case now) that Will recently reviewed from overkill solar and gave a favorable review on. The JBD SP04S028 if you wanted to look it up.

The first batch was not series capable and we missed updating some of the graphics after upgrading the BMS. Every update requires updating graphics on Amazon, Walmart, eBay, and our website, plus the datasheet. We'll have it fixed today though and thanks for point it out.

We have a large 5 pallet shipment being delivered this week, so the ABS (plastic) cased batteries are available for pre-order via our website. We're selling the metal cased batteries faster than expected and should be sold out in a week or two. However, there's another 15 pallet shipment floating over at the moment and should be here mid-May. That will include all sizes from 6Ah to 300AH at 12V.

Have a great weekend! ~Aric

 

[White Wolf]

I pulled the trigger on the Rebel 100Ah Lithium battery and am happy with the packaging and the product received, will test capacity over the weekend. I think bad experiences can happen even with a larger company like Aims Corp as one member chimed in, so I figured I would give this one a shot.

From my perspective, liked the blue-tooth functionality to be able to check on the battery every once in a while and get a sense of usage without having to spend additional money on a separate monitor. Time will tell if this monitor will suit my needs, but I can always add to my system later.

My three choices based on company size (largest to smallest) with blue-tooth monitoring:

Aims Corp
FuelZero
Rebel - LiFePO4 12V 100Ah 1280Wh Bluetooth Enabled Rechargeable Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery - reBel Batteries

Usually I would probably go middle of the road and go with FuelZero as they have an excellent reputation on Ebay, but they were sold out on the capacity I was looking for. As tempting as the warranty was for Aims Corp decided to give this battery a shot since I could not even buy those components for that price and would still have to put it all together.

Anything else I should test besides capacity? Not planning on a full tear down as he has one posted on his site.

Raw LiFePO4 Cells

LiFePO4 BMS can be found by clicking here

www.mobile-solarpower.com

 

[jarblaz]

I'm the brand owner (Aric) and yes the 100Ah can in fact be connected in series (up to 48 volts) or parallel up to 400Ah.

We coincidentally use the same BMS (in both the plastic and metal case now) that Will recently reviewed from overkill solar and gave a favorable review on. The JBD SP04S028 if you wanted to look it up.

The first batch was not series capable and we missed updating some of the graphics after upgrading the BMS. Every update requires updating graphics on Amazon, Walmart, eBay, and our website, plus the datasheet. We'll have it fixed today though and thanks for point it out.

We have a large 5 pallet shipment being delivered this week, so the ABS (plastic) cased batteries are available for pre-order via our website. We're selling the metal cased batteries faster than expected and should be sold out in a week or two. However, there's another 15 pallet shipment floating over at the moment and should be here mid-May. That will include all sizes from 6Ah to 300AH at 12V.

Have a great weekend! ~Aric

Can we pre-order the 300ah?

 

[ashelby]

Sur

Can we pre-order the 300ah?

Yes. Email me at support (@) rebelbatteries (dot) com and I'll send you an invoice. They arrive tomorrow and already only a few left.

 

[danielsjoseph891]

Yes. Take a look at the tear down video posted and you will see them.

LiFePO4 batteries are made up of individual 3.2v nominal cells so you need 4 to make 12v nominal, 8 to make 24v nominal etc.

And nominal basically means the name we call them since a 3.2v cell can run from 2.5v to 3.65v which can be multiplied out to the battery voltages above.

In reality most of us limit the cell voltage excursions to around 3-3.5v to extend the life of the battery.

Hope that helps.

Mr. Photon Sorceror,
You've jumped in on a couple of my threads and sound way more knowledgeable than me. I'm not wanting to wait on SOK's mid-may shipment. And it's not really a matter of inpatients as it is I've had some delays and enough is enough. reBel has been recommended to me on this forum before. Do you have confidence in this brand, or should I wait for the SOK?
Thanks,
Joe

 

[OnTheRoadAgain]

Sur

Yes. Email me at support (@) rebelbatteries (dot) com and I'll send you an invoice. They arrive tomorrow and already only a few left.

Hi,
I was thinking about buying one of your 100Ah batteries on Amazon.
Is there any advantage to buy direct from your website?

Do you have any special deals for forum members?

Thanks

 

[ashelby]

@OnTheRoadAgain

Amazon and eBay both collect taxes for almost all states. We only have to collect taxes for Texas shipments. That's one advantage.

And we keep the price a little lower on our website, since we don't pay Amazon(15%) and eBay(10%) fees.

It's against the forum rules to post special deals without approval.

~Aric

 

[JoeHam]

Mr. Photon Sorceror,
You've jumped in on a couple of my threads and sound way more knowledgeable than me. I'm not wanting to wait on SOK's mid-may shipment. And it's not really a matter of inpatients as it is I've had some delays and enough is enough. reBel has been recommended to me on this forum before. Do you have confidence in this brand, or should I wait for the SOK?
Thanks,
Joe

Honestly I have no experience with either one.

That said I would view them as rough equivalents from what I’ve seen on forums and YouTube. And if I were in the market for yet another LiFePO4 battery I would consider either but lean towards ReBel for what I believe would be faster delivery as one of the reasons.

I will also admit my bias for a US based, veteran owned business.

Joe

 

[OnTheRoadAgain]

@OnTheRoadAgain

Amazon and eBay both collect taxes for almost all states. We only have to collect taxes for Texas shipments. That's one advantage.

And we keep the price a little lower on our website, since we don't pay Amazon(15%) and eBay(10%) fees.

It's against the forum rules to post special deals without approval.

~Aric

Thank you.
I've been lurking on the "Buy a LiFePO4 battery bandwagon" for a while.
I have 272aH cells on order with Michael but it's unclear when those will arrive.

I watched your video on the teardown and your way of speaking and it seems to me you are a man of integrity.

I will, of course, test the battery when it arrives and let you know if there's any issues.

If the battery performs as expected I will have no problem recommending you to others here.

Looking forward to it's arrival

 

[danielsjoseph891]

Honestly I have no experience with either one.

That said I would view them as rough equivalents from what I’ve seen on forums and YouTube. And if I were in the market for yet another LiFePO4 battery I would consider either but lean towards ReBel for what I believe would be faster delivery as one of the reasons.

I will also admit my bias for a US based, veteran owned business.

Joe

ReBel doesn't have many reviews, because of course they're new, but I haven't heard any of those reviews straight up complain that they weren't doing their homework. Whenever a remark is made, ReBel seems to be watching and "correct course" on misinformation or respond to the inquery. I'm looking for a reason to be scared of getting one and can't seem to find one. I've been a little stuck on SOK because a reputable, experienced source reviewed them (Will Prowse). I unfortunately am new to the solar world, and batteries are not my forte'. Yes, I don't like the idea of waiting until mid-May for my battery to be shipped out.

 

[JMc]

Thanks for posting this. I want to add a 100 ah LifePo4 battery to my van and am trying to decide b/w the Rebel and SOK. I like the SOK case for the ability to take it apart, but like the Rebel Bluetooth monitor, the fact that it's fairly local to me, and at least for now, in stock. I'm a total newbie when it comes to these batteries, but was wondering what others thought of the build quality in the tear down video for the Rebel. If I don't find any negative feedback on the Rebel I may pull the trigger on one (especially if I can find a discount code that works).

I watched the tear down and saw a couple of things that might be concerns. The biggest was the routing of the (relatively small gauge) high-current leads and the place where positive crosses the negatives. He says the insulation is silicone and it’s OK to have the crossover. I say baloney — that silicone will melt and fail long before red hot copper. A more general concern is the liberal use of glue and foam instead of fastening parts mechanically. I know the battery isn’t meant to be serviceable but this type of construction depends on the skill and diligence of Chinese workers who are typically under pressure to build stuff as fast as possible. That molded case could be improved with bosses and flanges so the various parts would have real mounting surfaces.

 

[OnTheRoadAgain]

I watched the tear down and saw a couple of things that might be concerns. The biggest was the routing of the (relatively small gauge) high-current leads and the place where positive crosses the negatives. He says the insulation is silicone and it’s OK to have the crossover. I say baloney — that silicone will melt and fail long before red hot copper. A more general concern is the liberal use of glue and foam instead of fastening parts mechanically. I know the battery isn’t meant to be serviceable but this type of construction depends on the skill and diligence of Chinese workers who are typically under pressure to build stuff as fast as possible. That molded case could be improved with bosses and flanges so the various parts would have real mounting surfaces.

Interesting points.
What separates BattleBorn from Rebel (other than price of course) I believe is the Grade cells used....along with impeccable build quality.

If the crossing of wires in the Rebel battery is indeed risky, then in time enough of these may fail in such a way as to create damaging lawsuits that would end the Rebel name (and all warranties it promised).

My assumption is that all these $500 class batteries like SOK, Rebel, AmpereTime all utilize grade B cells.
Each individual company sets their own guidelines as to what quality tests and specifications a cell must meet in order to be used in their batteries.
It would completely tell the story (of what you are getting) if they would release their criteria for acceptable cells for their batteries.....except for build quality.

It does concern me that only one 8 Gauge wire is connected to the Positive terminal....and they way they cross.
The recommendation for even 50Amps over 12 inches is 6 Gauge wire

 

[JMc]

Interesting points.
What separates BattleBorn from Rebel (other than price of course) I believe is the Grade cells used....along with impeccable build quality.

If the crossing of wires in the Rebel battery is indeed risky, then in time enough of these may fail in such a way as to create damaging lawsuits that would end the Rebel name (and all warranties it promised).

My assumption is that all these $500 class batteries like SOK, Rebel, AmpereTime all utilize grade B cells.
Each individual company sets their own guidelines as to what quality tests and specifications a cell must meet in order to be used in their batteries.
It would completely tell the story (of what you are getting) if they would release their criteria for acceptable cells for their batteries.....except for build quality.

It does concern me that only one 8 Gauge wire is connected to the Positive terminal....and they way they cross.
The recommendation for even 50Amps over 12 inches is 6 Gauge wire

 

[Q-Dog]

Interesting points.
What separates BattleBorn from Rebel (other than price of course) I believe is the Grade cells used....along with impeccable build quality.

If the crossing of wires in the Rebel battery is indeed risky, then in time enough of these may fail in such a way as to create damaging lawsuits that would end the Rebel name (and all warranties it promised).

My assumption is that all these $500 class batteries like SOK, Rebel, AmpereTime all utilize grade B cells.
Each individual company sets their own guidelines as to what quality tests and specifications a cell must meet in order to be used in their batteries.
It would completely tell the story (of what you are getting) if they would release their criteria for acceptable cells for their batteries.....except for build quality.

It does concern me that only one 8 Gauge wire is connected to the Positive terminal....and they way they cross.
The recommendation for even 50Amps over 12 inches is 6 Gauge wire

Battle Born uses lots of small cylindrical cells in their batteries. Most of the $500 batteries seem to be using prismatic cells. Failure of one cell in a Battle Born should leave the BB unit within their warranty specifications. A singe cell failure in a 4 cell battery makes the battery unusable.

I would not ASSume they are using grade B cells. When one buys the large quantities of cells needed to build batteries one would get better pricing. Battery companies will cut deals and even do custom specification for as small as a couple of thousand cells.

Just judging from appearances, most of the $500 batteries are using the same cases in different colors, so if one wants to ASSume anything one could ASSume most of those $500 batteries are being assembled in the same chinese factory. Just put them in a different color case and put a different label on them.

 

[ashelby]

Aric, reBel Batteries owner here.

I've mentioned it in another thread, the wires were upgraded to 6 AWG silicone or two 8 AWG silicone, I gave my supplier the option, either being more than sufficient to handle loads of 100 Amps continuously. We're only shipping the improved version now.

In the metal case tear-down, you can see the heartier 6 AWG wire.

---Break---

We use grade A cells. Identified by original plastic wrapping, manufacturer QR serial codes, 100% rated capacity, and we do spot-checks for internal resistance if we have to open a case. None of our cells were previously used, salvaged, or defective in any way.

The only other grade-A tests are weight (not practical) and long-term discharge tests (also not practical). Without having a reason to doubt my supplier, these tests are kind of superfluous.

The most important test is the capacity test. If you get 100%, you got what you paid for... watts/power/energy.

---Break---

In almost a year and hundreds of batteries sold, there have been 3 returns for manufacturing issues. Two were BMS related, the temp probe (on board) was reading -27C and the BMS was keeping the charge/discharge paths turned off. The other was a customer who was convinced the cells were mis-matched, they weren't. The first two were swapped out at no cost to the customer, the later refunded and we covered return shipping.

I know a lot of the forum members and lurkers are trying to decide between self-build and commercial options. I believe for what's out on the market right now, we offer a very competitive option, great service, 30-day returns, and a 5-year warranty. I know several members here have voiced positive remarks (thank you) thus far and the social proof is building.

Hope this helps shed some light on things and clears up concerns.

~Aric

 

[OnTheRoadAgain]

Battle Born uses lots of small cylindrical cells in their batteries. Most of the $500 batteries seem to be using prismatic cells. Failure of one cell in a Battle Born should leave the BB unit within their warranty specifications. A singe cell failure in a 4 cell battery makes the battery unusable.

I would not ASSume they are using grade B cells. When one buys the large quantities of cells needed to build batteries one would get better pricing. Battery companies will cut deals and even do custom specification for as small as a couple of thousand cells.

Just judging from appearances, most of the $500 batteries are using the same cases in different colors, so if one wants to ASSume anything one could ASSume most of those $500 batteries are being assembled in the same chinese factory. Just put them in a different color case and put a different label on them.

Imagine if I had said "I KNOW THEY ARE USING GRADE B CELLS"

Assuming sometimes is the lesser of two evils. Note... nowhere did I say "I'm correct"

 

[OnTheRoadAgain]

Aric, reBel Batteries owner here.

I've mentioned it in another thread, the wires were upgraded to 6 AWG silicone or two 8 AWG silicone, I gave my supplier the option, either being more than sufficient to handle loads of 100 Amps continuously. We're only shipping the improved version now.

In the metal case tear-down, you can see the heartier 6 AWG wire.

---Break---

We use grade A cells. Identified by original plastic wrapping, manufacturer QR serial codes, 100% rated capacity, and we do spot-checks for internal resistance if we have to open a case. None of our cells were previously used, salvaged, or defective in any way.

The only other grade-A tests are weight (not practical) and long-term discharge tests (also not practical). Without having a reason to doubt my supplier, these tests are kind of superfluous.

The most important test is the capacity test. If you get 100%, you got what you paid for... watts/power/energy.

---Break---

In almost a year and hundreds of batteries sold, there have been 3 returns for manufacturing issues. Two were BMS related, the temp probe (on board) was reading -27C and the BMS was keeping the charge/discharge paths turned off. The other was a customer who was convinced the cells were mis-matched, they weren't. The first two were swapped out at no cost to the customer, the later refunded and we covered return shipping.

I know a lot of the forum members and lurkers are trying to decide between self-build and commercial options. I believe for what's out on the market right now, we offer a very competitive option, great service, 30-day returns, and a 5-year warranty. I know several members here have voiced positive remarks (thank you) thus far and the social proof is building.

Hope this helps shed some light on things and clears up concerns.

~Aric

Time to update that old YouTube video that shows one, 8 gauge cable because it's still being used as a talking point here.

It makes a big difference.

 

[Q-Dog]

Imagine if I had said "I KNOW THEY ARE USING GRADE B CELLS"

Assuming sometimes is the lesser of two evils. Note... nowhere did I say "I'm correct"

There is no reason to assume when the facts are out there and available with 5 minutes of internet searching. Assuming is how misinformation gets started.