Schneider XW vs Sol-Ark

[Rennit]

I have a really hard time believing the Sol Ark 12k cannot start that small air compressor. Its a 110v air compressor meaning it can't be exceeding 15a. No way it would be tripping the 12k.

I might be making a video about this.. I have a 1.9hp air compressor.

 

[Offthewall]

Yea a cherry picker would be nice for installing a 6848!! My back still hurts from picking up 2 and hanging them up 6+ feet up! Schneider makes great stuff but very $$$ when you factor in all the required accessories.

 

[pvdude]

very $$$ when you factor in all the required accessories.

Yep. We did a little bit at a time, as budget allowed.
Finished w/ the electronics, now need lots more PV panels to AMP this up:

 

[400bird]

This became quite the Schneider bash fest.

My XW 6848 starts the compressor on my central air, table saw, chop saw, etc. I've never had any concerns about what I run in my house. I've also never had any disconnects or shut downs that were not my fault (BMS voltage sense lead fuse failure for example)

I understand the settings are confusing and oddly worded, so it takes some time to get used to. But, it works for me and cost half the Sol-Ark 12k that was available at the time, even needing to piece the different parts together. That gives flexibility so you get get the right amount of PV/charge controller for you needs, you aren't forced into the charge controller built into the Sol-Ark.

These same stupid settings are likely the reason some installers are going with simpler options, like the Sol-Ark.

If anyone has videos of the Sol-Ark starting motors/pumps I'd love to see it, but up to this point I have not.

So it was a shell game.
He knew it would do 12KW for 60 seconds but acted so surprised when it handled the power.
Sixty seconds is not going to get your laundry dried and it's not going to fill your compressor!

The point I saw in the video is that it didn't trip the moment the load hit the name plate output (6,800 watts) which is what the Sol-Ark does.
Also, I'm not convinced he read the spec sheet. It could be honest surprise.

 

[Rennit]

I have a really hard time believing the Sol Ark 12k cannot start that small air compressor. Its a 110v air compressor meaning it can't be exceeding 15a. No way it would be tripping the 12k.

I just tried it with my 1.9hp 120v air compressor. The sol-ark shut off almost immediately but it will handle my 1700watt air fryer no problem. Interestingly the inverter didn't shut down when I tried the air compressor with the air fryer already running. It still couldn't start it but it didn't just give up.

Seriously not a deal breaker though since when I bought my system I had, and still have 0 intention of running heavy loads like air compressors and if I absolutely had to I could convert my air compressor to 240v and most likely not have any problems that way.

 

[ChrisG]

I just tried it with my 1.9hp 120v air compressor. The sol-ark shut off almost immediately but it will handle my 1700watt air fryer no problem. Interestingly the inverter didn't shut down when I tried the air compressor with the air fryer already running. It still couldn't start it but it didn't just give up.

Seriously not a deal breaker though since when I bought my system I had, and still have 0 intention of running heavy loads like air compressors and if I absolutely had to I could convert my air compressor to 240v and most likely not have any problems that way.

Not bashing Sol-Ark but some people have some big inductive loads needed to live in grid down like a well, but don’t need 15kw inverter to do so. This is the space that Schneider and Outback IMO stand out as well as unequal loads on each leg. This is just my opinion after months of reading and watching videos. We all know to buy once cry once but Sol-Ark may actually make you cry twice in this scenario.

I would love for Outback or Schneider to have grid 0 easily as I would never sell back due to co-op, but the main point is to run what is needed to live.

There is a place for each inverter and everyone has a unique use case. For me, I simply need power when needed and Schneider and Outback Radians can offer that.

 

[Rennit]

Not bashing Sol-Ark but some people have some big inductive loads needed to live in grid down like a well, but don’t need 15kw inverter to do so. This is the space that Schneider and Outback IMO stand out as well as unequal loads on each leg. This is just my opinion after months of reading and watching videos. We all know to buy once cry once but Sol-Ark may actually make you cry twice in this scenario.

I would love for Outback or Schneider to have grid 0 easily as I would never sell back due to co-op, but the main point is to run what is needed to live.

There is a place for each inverter and everyone has a unique use case. For me, I simply need power when needed and Schneider and Outback Radians can offer that.

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Schneider either I just have a problem with these YouTube videos and how misleading they are.
The surge rating of the Schneider is really cool. Honestly, that's the only area they out shine my Sol-Ark IMHO and it's not a very important area for me in my use case.

 

[Koldsimer]

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Schneider either I just have a problem with these YouTube videos and how misleading they are.
The surge rating of the Schneider is really cool. Honestly, that's the only area they out shine my Sol-Ark IMHO and it's not a very important area for me in my use case.

I think that's what this debate really comes down to. Both are excellent products, but each have their own unique features that may be better suited to ones particular application.

This, and similar threads, are great because they help people cut through the marketing and find out how things work in the real world from actual owners.

 

[robby]

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Schneider either I just have a problem with these YouTube videos and how misleading they are.
The surge rating of the Schneider is really cool. Honestly, that's the only area they out shine my Sol-Ark IMHO and it's not a very important area for me in my use case.

I also have an issue with a few of these content providers. You get $3500 worth of free Inverter then of course there is a level of pressure to try and find ways to make it look good. I find it hard to believe that a guy like Ben who has put in so many of these Inverters does not know the exact Surge Current.
That bit of surprise theater is where the dishonesty comes in. Then he does the same thing like Poz and blocks comments that point it out the theater like deception.

If the Video had started out by saying this Inverter is rated for 12KW of surge then anyone watching would have been saying OK so it passed big deal. Just about every low frequency Inverter will be able to handle large inductive loads.

Schneiders own Website Touts starting Air Compressors as it's number one feature:
https://solar.se.com/us/en/product/xw-pro-120-240v/

 

[Cheap 4-life]

We have a 6848 xw pro. Have had it running for 3 years or so. My one complaint is related to grid support. Over the years I have spent many tens of hours on the phone with Schneider (Who has VERY knowledgeable support) trying to diagnose the issue, and while it has gotten better, we've never fully resolved it. Basically, in grid support mode, we had frequent faults (Grid voltage too high, grid voltage too low, grid frequency too high, grid frequency too low) that would cause the inverter to enter pass-thru mode. 95% of the time, it would go back into Grid Support as soon as the fault was corrected, but sometimes (At least once a week) it would enter a fault and not exit, leaving the system in pass-thru mode, with the only correction being to fully restart the system. Aside from that, it was a beast, and a heavy piece of equipment. Comparing it to something like the EG4 6500 is laughable (Weight-wise). I know because when I received our EG4s, I couldn't believe how light they were. Just my Schneider MPPT weighs more than the EG4 6500 all in one. It's nuts how overbuilt the Schneider equipment is.

I hope that they cleared these issues up with the better support now offered. From what I understand the Schneider will also do grid tie zero export with Cts on the homes mains wires.

 

[ChrisG]

Since this thread is focused on the higher end inverters would like thoughts on these SolarEver 455w panels. Few places have them now for a reasonable price.

New SolarEver 455W 144-Half Cell Mono Solar Panel

New Solarever 455W are in! They are great for your solar grid application system. Get yours today by clicking on the link!

store.santansolar.com

 

[Cheap 4-life]

Um.. Ben specifically said that he previously had problems with Schneider and their after sakes support. He also said that he is giving them another chance and that their after sales support is much better now. Also that they have fixed most of the previous issues. There’s also no denying that the Schneider is a more powerful inverter...

 

[Cheap 4-life]

I have a really hard time believing the Sol Ark 12k cannot start that small air compressor. Its a 110v air compressor meaning it can't be exceeding 15a. No way it would be tripping the 12k.

It was probably tripping due to unbalanced loads which is a common occurrence for most people

 

[Cheap 4-life]

Not bashing Sol-Ark but some people have some big inductive loads needed to live in grid down like a well, but don’t need 15kw inverter to do so. This is the space that Schneider and Outback IMO stand out as well as unequal loads on each leg. This is just my opinion after months of reading and watching videos. We all know to buy once cry once but Sol-Ark may actually make you cry twice in this scenario.

I would love for Outback or Schneider to have grid 0 easily as I would never sell back due to co-op, but the main point is to run what is needed to live.

There is a place for each inverter and everyone has a unique use case. For me, I simply need power when needed and Schneider and Outback Radians can offer that.

Schneider does have options to do grid tie grid zero with Cts on the homes mains wires

 

[Rennit]

Um.. Ben specifically said that he previously had problems with Schneider and their after sakes support. He also said that he is giving them another chance and that their after sales support is much better now. Also that they have fixed most of the previous issues. There’s also no denying that the Schneider is a more powerful inverter...

The issue is what Ben says then and now.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

The way I read it he didn’t have many problems for a year and then (from his newer videos) he did. Maybe he simply didn’t want to say bad things to hurt SolArks reputation. Like maybe he just needed to install transformers as he did to compensate for the issues.. I mean it’s not like SolArk doesn’t have issues with unbalanced legs and other inverters handle that issue much better..

 

[Offthewall]

Nice setup!

Yep. We did a little bit at a time, as budget allowed.
Finished w/ the electronics, now need lots more PV panels to AMP this up:
View attachment 107829

 

[robby]

The way I read it he didn’t have many problems for a year and then (from his newer videos) he did. Maybe he simply didn’t want to say bad things to hurt SolArks reputation. Like maybe he just needed to install transformers as he did to compensate for the issues.. I mean it’s not like SolArk doesn’t have issues with unbalanced legs and other inverters handle that issue much better..

There is nothing special about Sol-Arks Inversion process, it is the same one that is used by just about every high frequency Inverter on the Market. The limitation is in the circuit design where you have shared capacitors banks on the two rails to the Mosfets and joined at the neutral. If you load down one side too much it is going to start to effect the voltage on the other side. There are companies that have tried using two separate Inverter sections but that brings in it's own set of issues. The only Inverters that handle the situation better are low frequency Inverters and those Inverter come with their own set of issues.

What sets Sol-Ark apart from everything else on the market is it's ability to handle power in so many different ways, plus the fact that the Hardware is better designed and Software has no bugs or issues plus customer service that is unrivaled.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

There is nothing special about Sol-Arks Inversion process, it is the same one that is used by just about every high frequency Inverter on the Market. The limitation is in the circuit design where you have shared capacitors banks on the two rails to the Mosfets and joined at the neutral. If you load down one side too much it is going to start to effect the voltage on the other side. There are companies that have tried using two separate Inverter sections but that brings in it's own set of issues. The only Inverters that handle the situation better are low frequency Inverters and those Inverter come with their own set of issues.

What sets Sol-Ark apart from everything else on the market is it's ability to handle power in so many different ways, plus the fact that the Hardware is better designed and Software has no bugs or issues plus customer service that is unrivaled.

Agreed SolArk isn’t the only inverter with the unbalanced leg issue..
honest question, in which ways does SolArk handle power that sets it apart from a Schneider?
From what Ben has said in his newest videos, the bugs/issues with Schneider seem to have been solved or can be solved with new found good customer support.

 

[Solar Guppy]

There is nothing special about Sol-Arks Inversion process, it is the same one that is used by just about every high frequency Inverter on the Market.

Actually its ( Sol-Ark and its cousins ) are "special", even in the US most split-phase storage inverters are single-phase, such as Solis, Goodwe, StoreEdge, Generac and Enphase off the top of my head that use auto-transformers for neutral requirements aka split phase..

Also the concept that older designs handle surge better isn't the just the output transformer. they were designed to meet code requirements that required galvanic isolation at that time ( XW started devolvement in 2003 ), and XW was designed component wise to handle long duration high power over 24/7 ratings. Just check out the rows and rows of caps and mosfets, then look at what is done now.

The current crop of AIO inverters are great values no doubt and I own a pair ( Solis ), but they are NOT a good option if it is your only power source 24/7. If your off-grid and the AIO takes a dump, your out of power and likely don't have a plan for the 4-6 weeks it will likely take to get back up and running. The XW and it's generation, understand the application and yes, you have parts for different functional needs.

Charge controllers, usually a bunch of them handle the Solar to Battery, inverters, battery to loads, multiple and isolation battery banks as examples. Yes, it is allot more installation work to do this, yes it costs more, but guess what, you can have failures ( and everything fails at some point ) and still have partial harvest or power. Try being off-grid and can't get water, lose heat as examples.

As for opinions on YouTube, installers can't be an expert in everything, there are experts in XW, the aren't cheap to hire, but they can fix just about anything and know the systems inside and out and have direct contacts to engineering.

Installers that have got into the RE business with gridtie likely don't have the training or experience for whole home power plants. I'm not faulting anyone, running a business is expensive and hard, the point is their equipment preferences are likely limited to their resources, not the capabilities of the equipment on the market.

For what it is worth, even with my experience, it can be difficult to choose as everything is a compromise!