Simple setup here in australia

[Trek]

Hi brains trust,
Am looking to hear suggestions for a simple solar garden setup from a girl with zero experience .

Due to housing crisis will be living in a yurt in a garden. Gas will be used for water heating. I will need power to cover 4kwh a day use (this is based on a recent electric bill i had living in a granny flat/demountable donga). Running things like convection top stove, vacuum cleaner, led lights, fans etc.

I've been trawling this site and see a couple of main options for a setup being 1; a standard solar setup and 2; the Aio route.

I'm leaning towards The Aio ecoflow 1800. They around 1500 aud throw in a couple of panels and setup going to be approx. 2k aud.
The other route scares me a little as I'm on my own and don't know how to wire anything up, but I do love a challenge.

My questions are........
what items will i need for a "wired setup" solar be?
panels (how many?)
inverter (3000w proffered)
i would like 24v as reading here 12v is only going to be upgraded. 24v is just a battery size correct?
a regulator from panels to battery

A question for the Aio route is
can they run off any panel ?
are they able to be used for a home setup?
I read on ecoflow website they really for power outage camping etc.? I read here that maybe if the power isn't drained and topped up and drained and topped up etc that the life of the system can be reduced.
The appeal for an Aio for me is obvious ease of use and portability and if i could get a 5 year warranty could easy pay itself off compared to using electric from the grid.

 

[pollenface]

The Ecoflow 1800 pv specs are, 11-60V, 15A, 500W max. It has a Lifepo4 type battery. Every day use will be fine although it's capacity (1024wh) is quite small and you will find it's limitations quickly unless you were to splash out on some add-on batteries.

Needing 4kwh/day I suggest looking for a couple of 25.6v/100ah lifepo4 units. Itechworld are having a big sale at the moment if that interests you (they are Perth based). A Victron 100/50 smartsolar mppt with 1.5kw of solar would be a moddest start.

I suggest a CNSwipower 3000w inverter, I have the 48v/6000w version. It seems robust and has built in soft start for heavy loads.

 

[Pi Curio]

Given your situation and everything DIY, tools, and beginner mistakes entail, I'd recommend getting an Ecoflow Delta Pro with 4x 400W EcoFlow solar panels.

Yes, there's a lot you could get for the money by going the DIY route, but it's a long and costly process for a beginner. Plus, I believe you need a means of having electricity at your disposal right away and no money to waste on mistakes or the time to learn everything required to build a powerful enough DIY system.

My intent is not to discourage you from learning and going the DIY route, but rather, to give my opinion on what would be the most practical way to get where you want to be in terms of having solar power at your disposal.

If you choose the DIY route, as Pollenface has pointed out, Xijia CNSwipower is a good brand for inverters, and as far as solar devices etc. go with Victron, with LFP battery.

I'd only make a slightly different suggestion for the inverter, Xijia CNSwipower 3200W inverter.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck.

 

[Brucey]

Delta pro is a bit of a worry lot of reports of failures around. I think with the Delta 2 series they've tweaked their designs enough to be reasonably reliable.

I assume you are talking about a Delta 2, the older Delta series didn't use LFP cells.

I have a Delta 2 max (2400W output, 2kWh capacity, two 500W controllers). Instead of paying for crazy priced ecoflow additional batteries I use two 24V 100 Ah batteries for an additional 5kWh of storage and connect via the xt60i charge ports, around 780W of charging available Charging those via some 150/35s.

 

[Trek]

The Ecoflow 1800 pv specs are, 11-60V, 15A, 500W max. It has a Lifepo4 type battery. Every day use will be fine although it's capacity (1024wh) is quite small and you will find it's limitations quickly unless you were to splash out on some add-on batteries.

Needing 4kwh/day I suggest looking for a couple of 25.6v/100ah lifepo4 units. Itechworld are having a big sale at the moment if that interests you (they are Perth based). A Victron 100/50 smartsolar mppt with 1.5kw of solar would be a moddest start.

I suggest a CNSwipower 3000w inverter, I have the 48v/6000w version. It seems robust and has built in soft start for heavy loads.

they are 1299 for a battery. would x2 be needed for the output required?
says on itech website for the 25.6v you mentioned -; The iTECH24V100 is equivalent to 200Ah in lead-acid 24V batteries.
so i need approx 200amp hour at 24v batteries or 400amp hour lead acid? (i prefer the lithium as read good things on the lifepo4 stuff

if thats 2 bateries @1299 thats $2600 dollars already without the panels and inverter and whatever else I need.

Would these batteries last a decade? they say 5000 cycles and when not in use they satnd down and dont drain due to a bms (i guess thats builtin to the internal of battery).

 

[Trek]

Delta pro is a bit of a worry lot of reports of failures around. I think with the Delta 2 series they've tweaked their designs enough to be reasonably reliable.

I assume you are talking about a Delta 2, the older Delta series didn't use LFP cells.

I have a Delta 2 max (2400W output, 2kWh capacity, two 500W controllers). Instead of paying for crazy priced ecoflow additional batteries I use two 24V 100 Ah batteries for an additional 5kWh of storage and connect via the xt60i charge ports, around 780W of charging available Charging those via some 150/35s.
View attachment 201216

Yes I meant the delta 2 .
how is adding 2 x 100ah batteries give 5kwhs? ( I probably need to search this site even more lol)

thanks
Amy

 

[Brucey]

Yes I meant the delta 2 .
how is adding 2 x 100ah batteries give 5kwhs? ( I probably need to search this site even more lol)

thanks
Amy

Because they are 24V batteries, they each have 2560 Wh of capacity, versus a 12V 100Ah which would have 1280 Wh. The reason to use the 24V batteries is because if you use a standard 12V battery with a Delta 2 it will only charge at a max of 12V*15A, whereas with the 24V*15A it can charge at double that rate.

Also keep in mind the noise level of these units in operation, my Delta 2 max is relatively quiet, the Delta 2 is louder from my understanding, and the Delta pro is loud enough you wouldn't want it near a bedroom.

 

[Pi Curio]

Delta pro is a bit of a worry lot of reports of failures around. I think with the Delta 2 series they've tweaked their designs enough to be reasonably reliable.

I assume you are talking about a Delta 2, the older Delta series didn't use LFP cells.

I have a Delta 2 max (2400W output, 2kWh capacity, two 500W controllers). Instead of paying for crazy priced ecoflow additional batteries I use two 24V 100 Ah batteries for an additional 5kWh of storage and connect via the xt60i charge ports, around 780W of charging available Charging those via some 150/35s.
View attachment 201216

Probably the best of the two worlds.

2400W AC is sufficient for off-grid living for cooking, boiling water, washing laundry, etc. Plus, a 1000W of solar is respectable and usable in everyday life.

On the other hand, indulging interest in the DIY route, and learning more about solar to better understand, use, and maintain the system while expanding its capability with additional batteries with its independent solar source and gaining enough know-how given time to build a more powerful custom DIY system in the future.

 

[Trek]

I'd only make a slightly different suggestion for the inverter, Xijia CNSwipower 3200W inverter.

yes they look good re power consumption when not being used ( other thread here lol)

Because they are 24V batteries, they each have 2560 Wh of capacity, versus a 12V 100Ah which would have 1280 Wh. The reason to use the 24V batteries is because if you use a standard 12V battery with a Delta 2 it will only charge at a max of 12V*15A, whereas with the 24V*15A it can charge at double that rate.

Also keep in mind the noise level of these units in operation, my Delta 2 max is relatively quiet, the Delta 2 is louder from my understanding, and the Delta pro is loud enough you wouldn't want it near a bedroom.

so what would you recommend battery wise for my 4kwh per day, 1 or 2 x 24v 100ah lithium battery?

so 1x 24v 100ah lithium Batt is = 2560 kilo watt hour according to you brucey (i need 4000wh) so i'd need 2 of them is correct?

sorry to be a pain but from the battery website i get this

FEATURES​

• 24V 100Ah Useable Capacity
• Heavy Duty Case
• Can be connected in parallel (up to 4)
• Can be connected in series (up to 2)
• High discharge current max 250A (5sec)
• Heavy-duty removable M8 Bolt Battery terminals
• Maintenance-free
• Lithium-ion LiFePO4
• Lifting handles fitted to ensure a secure hold when moving
• Internal battery management system
• Redback Lithium Operating System installed as standard.
• Built-in over-discharge protection.

there is no mention of 1260 wh

thanks
Amy

 

[Brucey]

Probably the best of the two worlds.

2400W AC is sufficient for off-grid living for cooking, boiling water, washing laundry, etc. Plus, a 1000W of solar is respectable and usable in everyday life.

On the other hand, indulging interest in the DIY route, and learning more about solar to better understand, use, and maintain the system while expanding its capability with additional batteries with its independent solar source and gaining enough know-how given time to build a more powerful custom DIY system in the future.

Yes ideally you'd have a portable system for mobile use around the property and away from home and then a larger system for the house, but living in a yurt the portable maybe sufficient if you have enough additional batteries. My 24V 100Ahs cost $360 and $410 so definitely seems more expensive in Australia. With my d2m I can power everything that's 120V expect my propane dryer the startup surge shows over 2600W before my d2m shuts down with overload. Air fryer at 1600W, rice cooker at 1kW, oil filled portable radiator at 1500W no problem. I just got a Victron 48/1200va low frequency inverter for additional inverter capacity, will see if it can start the dryer.

 

[Brucey]

yes they look good re power consumption when not being used ( other thread here lol)


so what would you recommend battery wise for my 4kwh per day, 1 or 2 x 24v 100ah lithium battery?

so 1x 24v 100ah lithium Batt is = 2560 kilo watt hour according to you brucey (i need 4000wh) so i'd need 2 of them is correct?

sorry to be a pain but from the battery website i get this

FEATURES​

• 24V 100Ah Useable Capacity
• Heavy Duty Case
• Can be connected in parallel (up to 4)
• Can be connected in series (up to 2)
• High discharge current max 250A (5sec)
• Heavy-duty removable M8 Bolt Battery terminals
• Maintenance-free
• Lithium-ion LiFePO4
• Lifting handles fitted to ensure a secure hold when moving
• Internal battery management system
• Redback Lithium Operating System installed as standard.
• Built-in over-discharge protection.

there is no mention of 1260 wh

thanks
Amy

So if you went with an inverter with low idle use, you may be able to make do with a single 24V 100Ah battery to start. But that's assuming 2kWh of effective power is enough to get you thru the hours of darkness. In the US it can be cheaper to series two 12V 100Ah versus paying for a 24V 100Ah not sure if that's the case there.

Also what will you do when there's days of really bad solar production? Most have a gas generator to cover those times.

 

[wattmatters]

Due to housing crisis will be living in a yurt in a garden. Gas will be used for water heating. I will need power to cover 4kwh a day use (this is based on a recent electric bill i had living in a granny flat/demountable donga). Running things like convection top stove, vacuum cleaner, led lights, fans etc.

Does the yurt have any regular grid power supply?

What part of Australia? Just thinking of climate and heating/cooling demands.

Running things like convection top stove, vacuum cleaner, led lights, fans etc.

The appliance choice will determine the peak power demand, and that will be a factor to consider.

Budget?

 

[Trek]

so watts =volts x amps

my 24v batt x

So if you went with an inverter with low idle use, you may be able to make do with a single 24V 100Ah battery to start. But that's assuming 2kWh of effective power is enough to get you thru the hours of darkness. In the US it can be cheaper to series two 12V 100Ah versus paying for a 24V 100Ah not sure if that's the case there.

Also what will you do when there's days of really bad solar production? Most have a gas generator to cover those times.

tnx Bruce
I'm actually doing a full renovation on a house next door that I bought cheap that has a fuse box at front of house with 1 plug outlet (rest of house has no wires) I'm hesitant to run 2 x electric extension cords the 50 meter run to the back of the house and over the fence to my yurt and run my appliances off of that. I'm no electrician but the fuse box looks like its 80 years old and running a few appliances off extension leads exposed to the weather doesn't seem like a good idea. I have built a sturdy 3mx3m shed with c channels in roof to take a solar setup if ever i needed to chuck some panels up there.
But I intend to buy land go off grid and or buy a boat to live on again and would like to take the setup with me when i sell up, that, and learning to understand how solar works properly, and have what I feel is fundamentally adding another string to my bow seems attractive to me .

I feel a lot of forum members here suggest getting a head-start on what it is you want to achieve before buying a product only to then purchase another down the road that's not compatible or too complicated to retro-fit.

So with the 24v 100ah battery would i be able to get another battery the same size if I purchase a victron 100/50 that would be able to take the added battery later down the track say?

Thanks
Amy

 

[Trek]

Does the yurt have any regular grid power supply?

What part of Australia? Just thinking of climate and heating/cooling demands.


The appliance choice will determine the peak power demand, and that will be a factor to consider.

Budget?

I have access to power in emergency and a yammie generator as back up.

I'm NSW south wagga. Heaps of sun lol ( too much) no shading whatsoever in garden and the roof of shed i built to face north for a panel option. Shed is a 5- 10 meter run to the yurt for cabling should I go the shed roof panel route. Otherwise i could just stick a couple of panels on the ground and tilt them for winter sun

thanks
Amy

 

[Brucey]

so watts =volts x amps

my 24v batt x

tnx Bruce
I'm actually doing a full renovation on a house next door that I bought cheap that has a fuse box at front of house with 1 plug outlet (rest of house has no wires) I'm hesitant to run 2 x electric extension cords the 50 meter run to the back of the house and over the fence to my yurt and run my appliances off of that. I'm no electrician but the fuse box looks like its 80 years old and running a few appliances off extension leads exposed to the weather doesn't seem like a good idea. I have built a sturdy 3mx3m shed with c channels in roof to take a solar setup if ever i needed to chuck some panels up there.
But I intend to buy land go off grid and or buy a boat to live on again and would like to take the setup with me when i sell up, that, and learning to understand how solar works properly, and have what I feel is fundamentally adding another string to my bow seems attractive to me .

I feel a lot of forum members here suggest getting a head-start on what it is you want to achieve before buying a product only to then purchase another down the road that's not compatible or too complicated to retro-fit.

So with the 24v 100ah battery would i be able to get another battery the same size if I purchase a victron 100/50 that would be able to take the added battery later down the track say?

Thanks
Amy

Yes you can parallel another 24V 100Ah battery down the track. Just keep adding as your finances and needs dictate.

 

[Pi Curio]

I'm actually doing a full renovation on a house next door that I bought cheap that has a fuse box at front of house with 1 plug outlet (rest of house has no wires) I'm hesitant to run 2 x electric extension cords the 50 meter run to the back of the house and over the fence to my yurt and run my appliances off of that. I'm no electrician but the fuse box looks like its 80 years old and running a few appliances off extension leads exposed to the weather doesn't seem like a good idea. I have built a sturdy 3mx3m shed with c channels in roof to take a solar setup if ever i needed to chuck some panels up there.
But I intend to buy land go off grid and or buy a boat to live on again and would like to take the setup with me when i sell up, that, and learning to understand how solar works properly, and have what I feel is fundamentally adding another string to my bow seems attractive to me .

If you had started the thread with this, you would probably get more suited suggestions.

Our suggestions are as good as the information we've been provided.

I feel a lot of forum members here suggest getting a head-start on what it is you want to achieve before buying a product only to then purchase another down the road that's not compatible or too complicated to retro-fit.

Experience.

 

[wattmatters]

I'm NSW south wagga.

OK, so can get hot (but dry) in Summer and fairly cold at night in Winter. Hope the insulation is good.

Winter heating is more challenging because of the more limited daytime solar PV (even though typically clear sunny days, they are shorter). To cook, and to heat/cool electrically you'll need more than 1800 W.

I think the main challenge with AIOs like EcoFlow is recharging them quickly enough from solar PV. They are also very expensive per kWh.

If you can provide an external but protected from elements housing for a 5 kW AIO inverter/charge controller (like this MPP Solar 5048 MGX) and a 51.2 V LiFePO4 server rack/freestanding battery, then I think that would work better than an Ecoflow.

Output to a standard AC load panel (installed by a licensed sparky) feeding power outlets / lights as needed. A rack/freestanding battery (e.g. like this Gobel Power unit) will have ample capacity (~14 kWh) and is great value. Then you can connect a decent sized PV array (be it ground mount or on the roof).

If your Yamaha generator is an inverter model it can also connect to the AIO for supplemental charging of battery / running loads if the PV supply is inadequate (e.g. multiple cloudy/rainy days).

There are also ready made off-grid systems such as:

Green Bank Off Grid 5KW System Inverter + 10KWH lithium LiFePo4 batt

Get the Custom build Off Grid Solar System using high-quality products, including a 5KW inverter and 10KWH lifepo4 Solar Lithium Battery.

greenbanks.com.au

Just add PV.

 

[Trek]

Winter heating is more challenging because of the more limited daytime solar PV (even though typically clear sunny days, they are shorter). To cook, and to heat/cool electrically you'll need more than 1800 W.

I'll have wood fire for heating , gas for hot water

If you can provide an external but protected from elements housing for a 5 kW AIO inverter/charge controller (like this MPP Solar 5048 MGX) and a 51.2 V LiFePO4 server rack/freestanding battery, then I think that would work better than an Ecoflow.

that's a nice bit of kit i must say, I've looked at the 5kw deye that's mentioned here which looks similar too but @ 2k a unit.

My biggest worry with them is they need additional AC outlet/fuse blocks or something similar not sure. I cant just plug appliances straight into the inverter. This would need a sparky at a cost of who knows these days.

 

[wattmatters]

My biggest worry with them is they need additional AC outlet/fuse blocks or something similar not sure. I cant just plug appliances straight into the inverter. This would need a sparky at a cost of who knows these days.

For a cheap and cheerful option you could just connect it to an 10 A RCD protected outlet:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/click-4-outlet-power-block-with-rcd-safety-switch_p0135806

or

https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-4-outlet-portable-power-block-with-safety-switch_p7052850

or one rated for carrying a bit more current (15 A):

https://www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-15amp-electresafe-power-centre_p4420182

I'd assume 15 A (~3.5 kW) would be ample for your indoor power needs. It would handle a portable induction hob while other basic stuff was on (e.g. lights, TV).

Add an earthing rod hammered into the ground and connected to the AIO's earthing terminal.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-earth-rod_p4430624

https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-earth-clamp-and-warning-tag_p4430625

 

[wattmatters]

While the actual inverter is not the same as the one I linked, see this video by @Will Prowse showing just how easy it is to connect such a system:

Naturally the inverter model Will shows is for the USA and provides a 120 V AC output. The MPP model I linked is for Australia and will supply 230 V (or 240 V) AC output. It also has a much higher voltage limit for solar PV array (which means you can connect quite a decent sized array).

By all means stick with a power station if you are not comfortable with such an approach. This is the DIY solar forum though

Such a system will have far greater capacity (power output, storage capacity and solar PV input charging capacity) for the same $ as any portable power station could provide. And if your generator is an inverter model it can also be connected and used for supplemental charging if required.