diy solar

diy solar

Slightly punctured pouch cell still good? Let’s see!

BenQ

New Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2019
Messages
224
So I was one of the lucky winners in the Las Vegas giveaway @Will Prowse had a month ago and I’m finally getting around to working with one of the batteries. It seems to be a slightly damaged pouch cell 12v battery. Fortunately, I’m not one to look a gift horse in the mouth so I’ll be hooking this thing up to my 40 amp Renogy MPPT charge controller and a couple of 150 watt panels :) let’s see what happens!
A2EE5821-7ABD-4A97-BA6B-12F2274D27FF.jpeg
 
0483E13A-7DBC-4E62-847A-01C9F0EF89ED.jpegIt’s the one on the left with the BMS
98FE37D9-5784-42C6-A78B-3FEC0F403EE4.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • DC16D2CA-E2BD-40AB-A622-B4DA60AD695E.jpeg
    DC16D2CA-E2BD-40AB-A622-B4DA60AD695E.jpeg
    139.8 KB · Views: 7
  • E982E542-60C9-4AA9-A1E9-C93794196227.jpeg
    E982E542-60C9-4AA9-A1E9-C93794196227.jpeg
    160 KB · Views: 6
  • 4E6F6EFE-8CAB-4C5B-A6D7-B957C5A25786.jpeg
    4E6F6EFE-8CAB-4C5B-A6D7-B957C5A25786.jpeg
    119.8 KB · Views: 7
Okay I started off slow and didn’t connect the pouch battery straight to the charge controller. Instead I used my bmax (that’s what I always called my iMax b6 lol) to put 6 amps at 13 volts into it for an hour and nothing blew up :) I used a single panel with semi shade to pump up some old FLA’s with ~130 watts and connected the bmax to the load side of the renogy charge controller. If you look closely you’ll see the amps coming in and going out was making chef pretty well with this setup :)
1EE841C6-A8BF-4EFF-B6D9-594545D9DF6F.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • 67A13DB3-7F16-42D5-80FC-7FA6C9CBE648.jpeg
    67A13DB3-7F16-42D5-80FC-7FA6C9CBE648.jpeg
    243.5 KB · Views: 4
  • E708CE5E-9B24-4710-8B85-895E24834E67.jpeg
    E708CE5E-9B24-4710-8B85-895E24834E67.jpeg
    473.2 KB · Views: 3
  • 20C1C473-1E7B-4914-A18C-F4FE6A3EF5D3.jpeg
    20C1C473-1E7B-4914-A18C-F4FE6A3EF5D3.jpeg
    480.9 KB · Views: 3
  • 4B5FD4D2-F6CB-4949-968D-0631CA8E0723.jpeg
    4B5FD4D2-F6CB-4949-968D-0631CA8E0723.jpeg
    439.5 KB · Views: 2
  • 19B353D4-82B5-4E9E-A1BB-983010574362.jpeg
    19B353D4-82B5-4E9E-A1BB-983010574362.jpeg
    483 KB · Views: 4
  • 7D4A8EDE-F97B-421D-BF6A-B58B35E5E189.jpeg
    7D4A8EDE-F97B-421D-BF6A-B58B35E5E189.jpeg
    143.5 KB · Views: 5
Okay I’m putting about 200 watts of load on it to see how it reacts to that. Running a couple of fans at their highest setting. 14-15 amps at 12-13 volts. So far it’s bulging a little more lol but it’s staying steady at 13 volts with 30 volts PV at about 1.5 amps. I do believe the other cells are carrying the punctured cell as I took readings of each cell under the above mentioned load and charge and the punctured cell was 3.28v and all the other cells were 3.29v.
 

Attachments

  • 0300F896-F08E-4D77-A2A5-5168011BF6BD.jpeg
    0300F896-F08E-4D77-A2A5-5168011BF6BD.jpeg
    259.7 KB · Views: 9
  • 18B47F34-E022-476D-8424-4953D6014192.jpeg
    18B47F34-E022-476D-8424-4953D6014192.jpeg
    177 KB · Views: 9
  • 7518A14A-FEFF-436D-8CF2-85C679B9CDA2.jpeg
    7518A14A-FEFF-436D-8CF2-85C679B9CDA2.jpeg
    166.6 KB · Views: 7
  • 5C4A7F05-E148-4866-A60E-5C6BBA182DAA.jpeg
    5C4A7F05-E148-4866-A60E-5C6BBA182DAA.jpeg
    197.7 KB · Views: 8
  • 474E64EF-2C32-4758-86F4-F73C0416E061.jpeg
    474E64EF-2C32-4758-86F4-F73C0416E061.jpeg
    234.2 KB · Views: 8
  • 84C7D0E4-69C4-417F-B889-F0DA7E9F63EB.jpeg
    84C7D0E4-69C4-417F-B889-F0DA7E9F63EB.jpeg
    222.4 KB · Views: 9
  • 62F2262D-8F4A-427B-AE5D-CADFCDFDECB7.jpeg
    62F2262D-8F4A-427B-AE5D-CADFCDFDECB7.jpeg
    216.4 KB · Views: 9
  • 99F74D2B-2423-4AF1-98B9-7CBF08AD8566.jpeg
    99F74D2B-2423-4AF1-98B9-7CBF08AD8566.jpeg
    150.4 KB · Views: 9
Okay I’m putting about 200 watts of load on it to see how it reacts to that. Running a couple of fans at their highest setting. 14-15 amps at 12-13 volts. So far it’s bulging a little more lol but it’s staying steady at 13 volts with 30 volts PV at about 1.5 amps. I do believe the other cells are carrying the punctured cell as I took readings of each cell under the above mentioned load and charge and the punctured cell was 3.28v and all the other cells were 3.29v.
 
Last edited:
FYI... I do not know your setup, battery location, environmental situation, etc. But there is risk with a punctured pouch due to various reasons. Be careful!

See my links. I would be worried about water ingress and electrolyte drying. Despite low levels of lithium in the battery, water ingress would be really, really bad. Instead of the electrolyte gassing off and then recombining/reabsorbed it no longer can and you have lost what ever elements of gassing from the electrolyte. Now it is drying out long term. The gasses created are all over the place due chemistry/to where the gassing is formed/which region. When packaged, the air inside the bag is humidity controlled, removing all forms of water moisture from the bag prior to sealing. This is critical to long term health. What you have is a ruptured pouch and just the exposure to humid air will certainly reduce longevity and create issues. The good news they came from LV/arid region. There is not a lot of data from people that operate in this condition as any manufacture will recommend disposal/not condone such use. Old pouches in my possession that have become "spicy" or swollen in my possession are discharged slowly, removed from my house, stored outdoors in a metal can far away from my structures and disposed of. I do this for batteries no matter their chemistry/size. With batteries of any kind, there are owners that have had fires and owners that haven't, it's that simple. I have had VRLA/AGM, NIMH, and LI either melt/required gloves to handle or start fires under normal conditions/treatment due to age/issues.

"When exposed directly to water, the lithium within lithium batteries can, unfortunately, have a dramatic and potentially dangerous chemical reaction. They combine to form combustible hydrogen and lithium hydroxide, both of which battery owners should avoid."
https://battlebornbatteries.com/can-lithium-batteries-get-wet/

"Common gas species generated from typical lithium-ion battery composition are often toxic, e.g. CO, HF, SO2, NO2, NO, and HCl"
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fceng.2022.828375/full#:~:text=Swelling mainly results from gas,should be removed before shipping.
 
Last edited:
FYI... I do not know your setup, battery location, environmental situation, etc. But there is risk with a punctured pouch due to various reasons. Be careful!

See my links. I would be worried about water ingress and electrolyte drying. Despite low levels of lithium in the battery, water ingress would be really, really bad. Instead of the electrolyte gassing off and then recombining/reabsorbed it no longer can and you have lost what ever elements of gassing from the electrolyte. Now it is drying out long term. The gasses created are all over the place due chemistry/to where the gassing is formed/which region. When packaged, the air inside the bag is humidity controlled, removing all forms of water moisture from the bag prior to sealing. This is critical to long term health. What you have is a ruptured pouch and just the exposure to humid air will certainly reduce longevity and create issues. The good news they came from LV/arid region. There is not a lot of data from people that operate in this condition as any manufacture will recommend disposal/not condone such use. Old pouches in my possession that have become "spicy" or swollen in my possession are discharged slowly, removed from my house, stored outdoors in a metal can far away from my structures and disposed of. I do this for batteries no matter their chemistry/size. With batteries of any kind, there are owners that have had fires and owners that haven't, it's that simple. I have had VRLA/AGM, NIMH, and LI either melt/required gloves to handle or start fires under normal conditions/treatment due to age/issues.

"When exposed directly to water, the lithium within lithium batteries can, unfortunately, have a dramatic and potentially dangerous chemical reaction. They combine to form combustible hydrogen and lithium hydroxide, both of which battery owners should avoid."
https://battlebornbatteries.com/can-lithium-batteries-get-wet/

"Common gas species generated from typical lithium-ion battery composition are often toxic, e.g. CO, HF, SO2, NO2, NO, and HCl"
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fceng.2022.828375/full#:~:text=Swelling mainly results from gas,should be removed before shipping.
Still in Vegas so very little moisture lol
 
If a sealed pouch or vent port on a sealed metal container cell is punctured, the electrolyte solvent will eventually evaporate out of cell. Electrolyte solvent is somewhat viscous with a relatively high vapor temp so it will take months to evaporate depending on puncture size and ambient temperature cell is exposed to. It is similar to diesel fuel evaporation rate.

Lithium-ion-migration rate through electrolyte will gradually decrease over time as solvent in electrolyte escapes the cell. This increases cell impedance, eventually getting so high the cell is unusable due to too much cell voltage slump under load current.

You can try and seal the puncture with a high-density polyurethane glue, like Liquid Nails, but surface must be clean and dry without any electrolyte solvent around the gluing attachment base. 91% alcohol can be used to clean the surface around the puncture.
 
98D3B8E4-C27C-4C5F-8EF2-4DCC6B9079A5.jpeg
Almost 2 months later and it hasn’t blown up lol ? Caution ⚠️ if you have OCD do not scrutinize my temporary set up too closely. Suffice it to say that my 360 watt 48v to 12v Dc-Dc converter only supplies around 100 watts continuously. Any amount over that creates way too much voltage drop and my PC and GPUs crash. So, I took the slightly punctured battery I got for free from @Will Prowse and repurposed it to stabilize the voltage of my converter and now my DIY mining rig (1 CPU & 1 GPU) is running 24/7 off of DC :) got the idea from @BradCagle when I saw his Dc-Dc asic video where he needed a capacitor to help buffer the load of his asic miner, thanks buddy!
 
View attachment 152756
Almost 2 months later and it hasn’t blown up lol ? Caution ⚠️ if you have OCD do not scrutinize my temporary set up too closely. Suffice it to say that my 360 watt 48v to 12v Dc-Dc converter only supplies around 100 watts continuously. Any amount over that creates way too much voltage drop and my PC and GPUs crash. So, I took the slightly punctured battery I got for free from @Will Prowse and repurposed it to stabilize the voltage of my converter and now my DIY mining rig (1 CPU & 1 GPU) is running 24/7 off of DC :) got the idea from @BradCagle when I saw his Dc-Dc asic video where he needed a capacitor to help buffer the load of his asic miner, thanks buddy!
You should clean up the wiring. Even if it's temporary. Everything in this picture is not complex and can be easily cleaned up. Having a battery that close to those random pcbs is asking for problems.

Glad the battery is being put to use, but make it better. Not hard to do with this setup at all.
 
I would just use a brand new $300 chins battery instead of that pack. I know it's free and good to recycle, this could be an awesome battery for a gate opener, but I wouldn't use it indoors.
 
Back
Top