Solar DIY help

[xaratemplate]

Lets look at your power needs as you have detailed them.

Laptop is 200 watts for 8 hours or 1600 watt hours.

The cooktop is 1800 watts for an hour. Those two add up to 3400 watt hours.

That is going to take a bit of panels. Let me look for a thread that discusses this better than I can explain it.

Ok thanks

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Lets look at your power needs as you have detailed them.

Laptop is 200 watts for 8 hours or 1600 watt hours.

The cooktop is 1800 watts for an hour. Those two add up to 3400 watt hours.

That is going to take a bit of panels. Let me look for a thread that discusses this better than I can explain it.

Yes...
Cooktop, laptop, refrigerator oh so many things that use energy.

It all adds up to more you first think.
When you really pull the power plug...

Killawatt (USA brand name for watt meters)
Help to know how much power you are using now.

Once you know, and that can take weeks to measure all equipment you are using..
Then you know how much you really need.

Most people are surprised how much energy they really use.
(Paying monthly bill doesn't give really insight on what uses the Watts )

In case of @xaratemplate ..
It looks like most equipment is not there yet.
That's a good thing, the equipment can be matched to living off grid.
Refrigerator with inverter type uses quite a lot less energy.

Refrigerator bought second hand, 10 years old will use 4 or 5 times more energy.

 

[xaratemplate]

Yes...
Cooktop, laptop, refrigerator oh so many things that use energy.

It all adds up to more you first think.
When you really pull the power plug...

Killawatt (USA brand name for watt meters)
Help to know how much power you are using now.

Once you know, and that can take weeks to measure all equipment you are using..
Then you know how much you really need.

Most people are surprised how much energy they really use.
(Paying monthly bill doesn't give really insight on what uses the Watts )

In case of @xaratemplate ..
It looks like most equipment is not there yet.
That's a good thing, the equipment can be matched to living off grid.
Refrigerator with inverter type uses quite a lot less energy.

Refrigerator bought second hand, 10 years old will use 4 or 5 times more energy.

Our fridge is inverter type in our current place plus the one at our other house is also inverter type plus our AC is inverter type. However our AC in our current rented place is not inverter based and uses up a ton of energy.

 

[JoeHam]

What is SCC? Is that Solar Charge Controller?

Yes

 

[Justin Laureltec]

If you haven't used the cheap breakers...
Only know scary stories without proof...
Stop spooking.
I can tell you tons of scary stories with just about any component.
Include choking with 7 gauge wire
(That's a joke)

Not spooking... just offering a professional's opinion, from personal experience.

 

[Will Prowse]

Yes, please do not use knock off circuit breakers! They worked well for me for years, but many forum members have issues with them. Justin is absolutely correct with his recommendations. Do not cheap out with OCPD.

Also, my website has updated circuit breaker recommendations. The links are under the video description. I keep the video up because people like it, but the parts list is constantly updated on the site. These videos can get outdated pretty quick at times. Sorry about that.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

They worked well for me for years, but many forum members have issues with them.

They are working fine for me also, for many years.
Like I wrote, and that's most likely the issue with "many forum members" keep the China margin!!

If you use those cheap breakers at or over rated current, they will snap all the time, wear out fast and stop working.
They won't melt or catch fire.

For me, I use them mostly as DC switch.
I use fuses for OCPD.

My 250A breakers 2 types, both react the same with loads above 100A, they get warm and snap after 5 or 10 minutes.


According to specifications.. 250A

Like the many BMS rated for 300A having one 10 gauge wire...

If people will use it and try 300A ...
The forum will be full of warnings about BMS.
Smoking wires.. way under 300A.

Lucky, most wires can be replaced, or additional wires can be soldered onto the PCB.

And we find this "normal"...

Yet, the breaker is suddenly dangerous?
Needless to say I disagree.
It's not the breaker but the members who use beyond realistic specifications.
Confuse peak with continuous use.
And don't use the China margin.

The advised breaker (200A) for 12v, 35A setup (= video) for sure is safe recommendation.

In this budget setup, spending 35 bucks per breaker (or more) are exceptional high costs compared to the other parts.

If you want to stay safe, and within budget, a simple fuse is the way to go.

The small ones go to 80A
Bigger to 500A.

Funny thing about them (I tested) they work like rated!!
The 30 A really can take 30A for many hours, and above 35A snap (or problem)
No I didn't test all range, but the 10,
30 and 100A.

They don't come much safer then the good old fuse.

Still then..
Using the 10awg wire supplied with the 300A BMS...
Is not the fault of the fuse!!!

My new 300A BMS have 2 x 2 x 7awg.
And my max absolute peak usage will be 200A. That's over the rating of my 3*3.2kw.. and I can not imagine even using close to 10kw not even most equipment combined.

I'm sure the 300A BMS with the 2 7Awg will do fine.
If it ever would come close to that crazy off grid load, it will be for short time.

Each inverter have its own 250A breaker, and (correct rated) fuse.

I like safety.
I know my 800ah@48v lead acid was enough to kill me.
I don't play jokes with it.
When working on the batteries, I'm standing on centimetre thick rubber.

Yes, they are dead now, I'm not.
Got killed by EASUN MPPT inverter malfunction.

But that doesn't mean anything about my safety precautions.

To end..
The Chinese breakers,

Including the smaller ones, are perfectly safe to use.

Just as safe as the 10Awg on your 300A BMS.

With the China margins, use 50% or less of their rating for continuous usage, you will have no problems at all.

If any forum member have had serious issues with this type of breakers, and used the safety margin, I really like to know and see (!!)

For sure I have had some problems with them, 99% user error.
Not connect the cable strong enough inside, after moving around, the contact got lose...
Some sparks, the thing heats up and the outer cable melted.
(Not the breaker!!!)
User error, not product.

I'm really curious as during my usage of several types from different vendors, I never had any issues, except that the capacity is highly overrated.
300A is NOT continuous 300A!
Probably little over 100A continuous.

I start repeating myself

Pictures please!!
And tell honestly what happened!

(That makes me.look less stupid as I'm apparently am the only person on the forum that smokes things from time to time)

 

[xaratemplate]

Yes, please do not use knock off circuit breakers! They worked well for me for years, but many forum members have issues with them. Justin is absolutely correct with his recommendations. Do not cheap out with OCPD.

Also, my website has updated circuit breaker recommendations. The links are under the video description. I keep the video up because people like it, but the parts list is constantly updated on the site. These videos can get outdated pretty quick at times. Sorry about that.

Can you help me with a parts list from with max budget of $1500 USD for Philippines? I listed the main thing is upgrade ability but in the short run powering laptop (200 watts), kettle for boiling water the electric type, led lights, charging cell phones. Primarily need it for offgrid use can't connect grid in place we are renting in city. I want to take safety first I'm not trying to harm or kill myself building this solar generator. I need it to be simply as well since I am a newbie at this and as risk free as possible so I don't get hurt. I was told by one member I can order stuff on aliexpress i.e. in general stuff from china site but if certain things shouldn't be order from their let me know so I can get the stuff that is most safest.

I can order from Amazon and Ebay but selection is very limited for shipping here so I have to check whatever links you provide for things to buy at Amazon. Honestly I am a bit overwhelmed with responses I got wasn't expecting so many people to be helpful. I just need a simple list of things to buy that I can actually access i.e. solar panels, battery, circuit breaker etc with links to buy items. Of course for new list would want anything that you recommend that is super safe to build I live in tropics so it gets hot here and FHORST made some suggestions about being careful about UV here and that could be a problem for what I am building I think it was regarding wires.

 

[xaratemplate]

Yes, please do not use knock off circuit breakers! They worked well for me for years, but many forum members have issues with them. Justin is absolutely correct with his recommendations. Do not cheap out with OCPD.

Also, my website has updated circuit breaker recommendations. The links are under the video description. I keep the video up because people like it, but the parts list is constantly updated on the site. These videos can get outdated pretty quick at times. Sorry about that.

Actually on page one I provided links to the items I could find as close to your list on website... see page 1 of the forum thread. If charge controller I selected is sufficient and other parts let me know. Still need help though finding battery, solar panels and circuit breaker that actually ships here. I'm not familiar with the bus terminal or Branch Connector and I think the charge controller I listed doesn't need battery monitor if I am correct because it already has screen built in. Additionally sure if I need Battery Bank To Inverter/Fuse Block Main Fuse. Other than that I think that is all the items I need.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Pictures please!!
And tell honestly what happened!

(That makes me.look less stupid as I'm apparently am the only person on the forum that smokes things from time to time)

Well..
Murphy...

Argh.



In my defense...
I wasn't careful being stressed out by the BMS that stopped functioning.

Maybe pulled a little too rough..
Sparks started inside, nasty smell.
No flames and it did seem like it would get fire.

In the defence of the breaker..
Abusing 12v 60A rated breaker in 350v 10A setup.... Might be a little too much to ask to keep working for long time as DC switch....

?

 

[Justin Laureltec]

Here is one of many perfect examples of how these knockoff breakers can cause a system to malfunction:

(Solved) Smartsolar MPPT 100/50 output dropping off and on - Victron Community

community.victronenergy.com

Y'all can do what you want out there, but maybe -just maybe- give some thought to listening to actual professionals when it comes to choosing protection devices. Saving a few bucks doesn't do you any good if your system fails because of it.

 

[Justin Laureltec]

@xaratemplate, there's a lot that I cannot offer you, because we only distribute Tier-1 components and therefore our inverters (strictly Victron) in particular will be unfortunately out of your budget; I wish I could say otherwise, but it's the price of only distributing products that we have tested exhaustively and trust implicitly. That being said, we do offer genuine Buss breakers and fuses, high-quality wire, and of course Victron solar charge controllers, and we'll ship anywhere in the world if you order through our website - our eBay store currently cannot ship globally due to limitations of eBay's "managed payments system", and Amazon has been failing in shipment times lately due to the necessary prioritization of critical supply shipments, which unfortunately solar charge controllers and such do not qualify for, but the website takes PayPal or CC and we routinely ship to some of the remotest locations on the planet.
At the end of the day, I don't particularly care where you order from, just please -for your own safety as well as for the reliable performance of your system as a whole- don't skimp on the protection devices. I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it many times again: I would far prefer to see a system comprised of budget components but connected with proper wire and protected by genuine Buss or Littelfuse breakers/fuses than to see a system of Tier-1 components that are connected with substandard wiring and protected by knockoff breakers/fuses.
That's all I'll say on the matter; good luck!

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Here is one of many perfect examples of how these knockoff breakers can cause a system to malfunction:

(Solved) Smartsolar MPPT 100/50 output dropping off and on - Victron Community

community.victronenergy.com

Y'all can do what you want out there, but maybe -just maybe- give some thought to listening to actual professionals when it comes to choosing protection devices. Saving a few bucks doesn't do you any good if your system fails because of it.

I read in the your forum and can agree that any part that gets hot during operation is probably the root of the problems.

Bad connection on its own or in any breaker will do this. It doesn't have to be perse in the breaker itselve.
Replacement of the breaker also is renew of the connections.
What could have been the root, and not the breaker itselve.

Yes, I agree that good product breakers and fuses are important.

And we probably agree that for sure not all products made in China are bad!
Even the price is a lot lower.

Most products are being made in China, including lots of the products sold by Victron, or most of the parts inside.

Victron looks good on paper, in real life...
Not so.

There are sadly many stories where people spend 15-20.000 dollars on equipment from this company, and at the end need to switch to Chinese cheep products that do work...

(With 20.000 less budget)
Not all parts are useless..
But to call yourself professionals...
That's a claim you don't deserve.

Members on this forum have sadly different experience.

Not all your products are bad.
And many simple installations go OK.

It's the challenge to get the difficult ones up and running even if it costs a company more effort.
Then you can earn the name of professional.

Small hint:
@Hagern.yacht

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Product like
This breaker


Or this breaker


Are in the lower Amperages only little more expensive and will give better protection.

Even if it was only for better designed connection of the cable

(The cheap ones suck to make proper strong connection)

But..
If the cheap ones are used what they where build for, like in the video of Will, for a 400w 12 Volt Inverter...
They work fine for long time!

The breaker shown in the forum port at victron was used far outside it's specifications => 12 Volt.

I'm not sure of the voltage in that setup.
If you use like me @ 350 volts...
Not strange to run into some problems.

If I abuse the 12 Volt from buss or littelfuse the same way, at 350 volts, I most likely run into the same problems.

That doesn't say that they are bad products...

When used within specifications, with China margin.
Not a problem.

 

[Justin Laureltec]

But to call yourself professionals...
That's a claim you don't deserve.

Wow, that's cold . Well, you're entitled to your opinions, I feel no need to discuss my qualifications with you. Cheers!

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Wow, that's cold . Well, you're entitled to your opinions, I feel no need to discuss my qualifications with you. Cheers!

Talk about cold?

Copy paste from your reply in PM:

Bottom line, this isn't my mess to fix, though I am very regretful that Barry has had this experience... he definitely has not had this experience with my company, so this only speaks to the poor service of his distributor, not Victron

That's cold.
And tells a lot about Victron as world wide company.

Professional company should care about all installation made by its HQ.

If HQ already f@c$ up...
What does that say about the resellers??

Victron have its HQ in Almere, The Netherlands and this buyer was in direct contact with them.

No, you don't have to discuss your qualifications with me, your reply shows enough of your "not my backyard, not my problem" qualifications...

I don't say you can't do a good installation, I just say you are , as Victron spokesman at this time on this forum, not the best choice to talk about what's a good product.

Especially as you can't backup your own products.

 

[erik.calco]

I would like to build a similiar solar system to the one you showed in this video:

with the hopes to power laptop that is 200 watts plus run maybe a electric stove cooktop. The problem I am having is I can't find a 170amp circuit breaker that ships to Philippines. Is their a different circuit break amp I can use since I can't find one that ships here?

Check out the MidNite Solar Baby Box. You can get it on ebay and Amazon, as well as many other places. You can put up to 4 DIN breakers in it. It's smaller than it looks. When the mailman handed it to me, I said, "where's the bigger box", thinking this can't possibly be it. lol

Then you can put any DIN breaker in it. You can get MidNite DC DIN breakers on ebay or Amazon for about $17. DIN is a standard rail, so there are lots of options for what you can put on it.

I got one of those marine breakers for my battery before I got the Baby Box. If I could do over again, I would of gotten a DIN breaker instead and had it next to my PV breaker inside the same baby box.

EDIT: I realized when I went to take a picture was that I ruled out DIN because I couldn't find for over 100 amps. Plus, you'll need to be sure any breaker you use can handle the size wire, which can get big with batteries. Your system sounds small, so you'll have to decide ahead of time the limits you want to put on it.

Here's the baby box above the marine breaker. This sure does make the baby box look bigger.



As for my not tying down my cables... I plan to replace my PV cables soon with heavier gauge for a combiner box and more panels.

 

[xaratemplate]

Product like
This breaker
View attachment 10091

Or this breaker
View attachment 10092

Are in the lower Amperages only little more expensive and will give better protection.

Even if it was only for better designed connection of the cable

(The cheap ones suck to make proper strong connection)

But..
If the cheap ones are used what they where build for, like in the video of Will, for a 400w 12 Volt Inverter...
They work fine for long time!

The breaker shown in the forum port at victron was used far outside it's specifications => 12 Volt.

I'm not sure of the voltage in that setup.
If you use like me @ 350 volts...
Not strange to run into some problems.

If I abuse the 12 Volt from buss or littelfuse the same way, at 350 volts, I most likely run into the same problems.

That doesn't say that they are bad products...

When used within specifications, with China margin.
Not a problem.

Can you make me a list of parts to purchase from Philippines? I am willing to pay a little more for the breaker you showed in this forum if it performs better. I would like to have Pure Sine Inverter as well since that will give me opportunity to connected devices with motors at later date when I upgrade other parts. If you could make just one post with only list that would be great so I can search out parts and pricing for my location.

I'm hoping to have a solution by today for what I need to buy. Also I may need some help assembling it once parts are here not sure if you can help me figure that out so I don't shock my self and safety ideas would be great. I would make a video explain how I think everything should go together and then get insight if I got something wrong.

Thanks for you help so far appreciate it.

 

[xaratemplate]

Yes, please do not use knock off circuit breakers! They worked well for me for years, but many forum members have issues with them. Justin is absolutely correct with his recommendations. Do not cheap out with OCPD.

Also, my website has updated circuit breaker recommendations. The links are under the video description. I keep the video up because people like it, but the parts list is constantly updated on the site. These videos can get outdated pretty quick at times. Sorry about that.

I did some more searching on your website and perhaps one of the systems listed below might be a better option for me regarding off-grid for some of my devices like laptop, led lights, kettle electric water heater and so on. Not sure what budget I would need but hoping if I really made my budget a little higher like $2k hopefully one of the systems will work well. Not sure if the RV system is useful in home but can let me know if that is better option. I like the all-in-one because less room for me to make error and get hurt.

Van Life 12v System
Offgrid Home 48v System

 

[Hagern.yacht]

It's the challenge to get the difficult ones up and running even if it costs a company more effort.
Then you can earn the name of professional.

Small hint:
@Hagern.yacht

Hi fhorst,
I'm definitely not a professional.I hired a company that would be...
but yes, the cheaper one works just as well as the victron
but yes I wanted to get it right, and victron is the best brand in the netherlands ...... ( not )
but yes at the moment I can't do anything
I'm waiting for my Lifepo3 battery which have been delayed by the coronavirus...