Stalling Issue on turbine

[Hogheavenfarm]

During the wind last night, the volts did not increase at all, was still reading battery voltage (13.1), (its on the video) if I remember correctly. Easier for me to use my clamp meter at the inside feeds, as it is usually during heavy rain or heavy snow that the turbine is spinning up nicely, and standing outside in the dark in the rain trying to read a clamp meter is not any fun at all. Currently the voltage meter is connected across the positive and negative feeds, since they connect directly to the battery they read battery voltage, my thought was it would show increased voltage when it spun up to over battery voltage, but I did not see that, so either the resistance is too high (not allowing the voltage through), or the turbine has stopped producing power (damn sparrows!). Will disconnect the feeds and see if I can spin by hand to verify power output.

I didnt mean disconnecting the leads and leaving them, I meant disconnecting and placing the DMM between them, as you indicated "in series with", so I was brainstorming that and how to safely connect and disconnect while power is being applied. I wasn't clear, sorry.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

(its on the video)

I don't see a video link. To measure current the mm should be in series or use clamp meter. Voltage reading with blue meter should be fine where it is.

 

[NIFE]

During the wind last night, the volts did not increase at all, was still reading battery voltage (13.1), (its on the video) if I remember correctly. Easier for me to use my clamp meter at the inside feeds, as it is usually during heavy rain or heavy snow that the turbine is spinning up nicely, and standing outside in the dark in the rain trying to read a clamp meter is not any fun at all. Currently the voltage meter is connected across the positive and negative feeds, since they connect directly to the battery they read battery voltage, my thought was it would show increased voltage when it spun up to over battery voltage, but I did not see that, so either the resistance is too high (not allowing the voltage through), or the turbine has stopped producing power (damn sparrows!). Will disconnect the feeds and see if I can spin by hand to verify power output.

I didnt mean disconnecting the leads and leaving them, I meant disconnecting and placing the DMM between them, as you indicated "in series with", so I was brainstorming that and how to safely connect and disconnect while power is being applied. I wasn't clear, sorry.

That bulb is a pretty high resistance. I would not expect the battery voltage to rise much. Just trying to confirm it is charging something. This can be done with the clamp on meter if it is DC. An AC clamp on meter will not work. That 1.1 ohm resistor looks to be a pretty good match for the next test. That would be after confirming some current is flowing. Value does not matter, as long as it is something. It likely is milliamps which isn't enough to raise the battery voltage. Once current flow is confirmed, replace the light bulb with one of the load resistors and see what happens.

 

[NIFE]

That bulb is a pretty high resistance. I would not expect the battery voltage to rise much. Just trying to confirm it is charging something. This can be done with the clamp on meter if it is DC. An AC clamp on meter will not work. That 1.1 ohm resistor looks to be a pretty good match for the next test. That would be after confirming some current is flowing. Value does not matter, as long as it is something. It likely is milliamps which isn't enough to raise the battery voltage. Once current flow is confirmed, replace the light bulb with one of the load resistors and see what happens.

Another option to stay out of the weather, replace the light bulb with a 20-30 amp screw in fuse if you have one. Put the resistor in series with the battery inside.

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

I did verify that some voltage was being produced (turbine is still internally undamaged), wife spun the blades by hand while I watched the meter, 4-5 volts when spun, so internals are working and functional, no sparrow sabotage.
I think I have one of those fuses, the barn still has a screw in fusebox, so some probably kicking around. Just some rewiring of the big breadboard back inside the barn to put the resistor inline. Will be done this week, storm arriving shortly so sooner I get things inside the better.
Clamp meter does DC, not sure of the resolution though, will check that. If not, my Innova meter will do that.

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

ok, some data and a question - Here is the video link for the test -

I used the video to extract the RPM
AS far as replacing the bulb with a 30 amp fuse, and then adding the resistor inside - if the purpose is to simply bypass the bulb, I had installed the bulb with a jumper set of MC4 connectors, I can simply remove the jumper with the bulb and just reconnect the feed connectors directly as it was.
(That is my question) Can I just reconnect without the bulb jumper line?
I am still adding the extra resistor inside to the feed line. Looks like I have to do that tonite as the storm promises to bring 35-40 mph winds.
Ignore the voltage display at the end, it was not in serial with the feed line, its measuring battery voltage there.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

if the purpose is to simply bypass the bulb

I believe the purpose was simply to get the resistor inside with the equipment. Much easier to monitor changes that way.
Be careful with those kinds of winds. You may produce some dangerous voltages as you tinker.

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

Should be about 50v at 180rpm, 75v at 250rpm. I dont mess with it when its spinning.

 

[NIFE]

I believe the purpose was simply to get the resistor inside with the equipment. Much easier to monitor changes that way.
Be careful with those kinds of winds. You may produce some dangerous voltages as you tinker.

That is correct. I assumed the light bulb and socket were outside in the weather.Just trying to allow you to continue without disconnecting it at this time. If it is easy to remove, don't need the light bulb any more. (pending confirmation of at least some current flow with clamp on meter or Innova)

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

ok, feed has been restored to the building, I rewired the spare dump load into the feed line just before the junction block that feeds the batteries and the dump load solenoid. Brought both meters out there and left them by the controllers. Just waiting on the wind now. Expecting 30-40 mph tomorrow, should be interesting. For now, just staining some new traps on the woodstove getting ready for woodchuck season.
Hopefully the wind will be coming from the north, since I limited the rotation, it wont furl if the wind comes from the Southeast, maybe I will cut it loose in the morning, at least one more quadrant t give it some room to furl.

 

[NIFE]

ok, feed has been restored to the building, I rewired the spare dump load into the feed line just before the junction block that feeds the batteries and the dump load solenoid. Brought both meters out there and left them by the controllers. Just waiting on the wind now. Expecting 30-40 mph tomorrow, should be interesting. For now, just staining some new traps on the woodstove getting ready for woodchuck season.
Hopefully the wind will be coming from the north, since I limited the rotation, it wont furl if the wind comes from the Southeast, maybe I will cut it loose in the morning, at least one more quadrant t give it some room to furl.

Can't wait to hear the results. With a wind like that, hope it starts on it's own. If it doesn't, will disconnecting a charge wire momentarily allow it to spin up and stay turning when the wire is reconnected? I would expect the current to be around 12 amps when the battery voltage is 13.1 volts.
Did the dump load relay ever turn on with the old batteries?

 

[NIFE]

I think a simple Voltage divider circuit powering a transistor to operate an appropriately rated ice cube relay may accomplish want you want to do. There may be a not-so-sweet spot when the wind is just right that may cause relay chatter.

This should work for the relay: https://batteryhookup.com/products/te-connectivity-ev200aaana-500a-0-900vdc

It would have the "not-so-sweet spot" but is a pretty indestructible for this application. There is a video that shows it's operation.

 

[NIFE]

FYI - TYCO relay specs.

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

Dump load has worked before, but not from wind overcharge, but worked because solar settings were higher than wind settings, triggering the dump. I had to reset both to play nicely together. Good info on the relays, will be exploring them and learning some new things. Snowing already (still dark) but no wind yet, still may get some time to unpin the rotator.

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

Spent the day shoveling snow and plowing, only a light breeze blowing, wind didnt even knock the snow off the trees. Weather radio still calling for 10-15 mph NW winds with gusts to 25. No clue when that will actually arrive, if it does. Probably at night during a heavy snow.

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

Got the winds this morning, at first light I saw it spinning and there was just a medium breeze, so a good sign. Since I had to leave for work I locked it down facing west as I dont want it spinning up with no one around just yet. More worried that if it comes apart it could short the batteries, and I have no fuse protection on those cables yet. Maybe when I get home I can free it and see what it does.

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

Freed the turbine as the wind kicked up, howling pretty good now. Not spinning up though. Will turn slowly for awhile, but will stall after a minute or so. Probably didnt have to even tie it off today. Debating whether to brave the high wind and pitch black to go out there and play with it in 28 degrees and a nasty wind chill. Maybe I will see if I can get some video. But its awful comfy here by the woodstove right now.

 

[NIFE]

So this morning it was charging in a light breeze and tonight stalling in a howling wind? Does stall mean it stopped completely?

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

I dont know if it was charging, just saw it spin from the house in a pretty light breeze, didnt stay up as the breeze was variable. In the wind last night it was stalling, spinning slowly at times then stopping. Didnt measure the wind speed but clearly was >15 mph and fairly steady. Wind was not variable last night and the turbine wasnt hunting, wind was straight from NNW. Glad it was tied off during the day though as we had some large gusts I saw on the security cameras.
Left it free to run today as no real winds are expected until tonite, they predicted 25-35mph winds with gusts to 50mph, so maybe I can do some testing later. I still have the light bulb cable with the MC4 clips so I could swap that back in the line and jump the resistor with some jumper cables as a test. I really only can get to serious testing on weekends when I am home, or evenings after 5.

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

High wind warnings out for tonite. If they roll in within the next few hours I will go out there and see whats going on, if not I will have to tie up and lock it facing east-notheast. Strong winds are supposed to be coming from the SE. Good news if the winds are staying high through Monday, so I will have time to work on it over the weekend.
I did test the resistance of the bulb jumper line tonite, I got 21 ohms on that line. Thats with the 40w bulb.

 

[NIFE]

I dont know if it was charging, just saw it spin from the house in a pretty light breeze, didnt stay up as the breeze was variable. In the wind last night it was stalling, spinning slowly at times then stopping. Didnt measure the wind speed but clearly was >15 mph and fairly steady. Wind was not variable last night and the turbine wasnt hunting, wind was straight from NNW. Glad it was tied off during the day though as we had some large gusts I saw on the security cameras.
Left it free to run today as no real winds are expected until tonite, they predicted 25-35mph winds with gusts to 50mph, so maybe I can do some testing later. I still have the light bulb cable with the MC4 clips so I could swap that back in the line and jump the resistor with some jumper cables as a test. I really only can get to serious testing on weekends when I am home, or evenings after 5.

Don't need the light bulb anymore. I suspect the internal resistance of your old battery was higher than the 2 new ones in parallel causing it to no longer work as it did before. Adding some resistance in series with the battery will make it work again. It is the cheapest and quickest fix but not the most efficient. Some of your power that would normally go into the battery will be wasted by the resistor. I always knew the light bulb resistance was too high, just wanted to know what the current flow was with it in series as an initial test. The single load dump resistor is too low. Need to get it up a little higher. Next step to consider is taking your other load dump resistor and putting it in series with the existing one. This would double your resistance. Did adding the single resistor make it better, no change, or not sure?

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

Appears to have made it not want to start. I could put the other resistor in series this weekend, wind is supposed to cooperate. I read up on Ohms so I could understand what we are doing, it seems I can use the bulbs to find the sweet spot of balance between the ohms and the amps coming through, and the 21 ohms on the bulb likely cuts off current allowing the turbine to spin up easier, but will not pass many amps (if I understand correctly). A higher wattage bulb (100w) may be better, or at least something to try. The big resistors at 1 ohm seem to be allowing the amps which drags on the motor. Probably not the best understanding of it all, but trying to learn. Turbines are so much more involved than solar panels.
Yes, the previous batteries were old car batteries, recycled after they wouldnt reliably start the cars anymore.

 

[NIFE]

Appears to have made it not want to start. I could put the other resistor in series this weekend, wind is supposed to cooperate. I read up on Ohms so I could understand what we are doing, it seems I can use the bulbs to find the sweet spot of balance between the ohms and the amps coming through, and the 21 ohms on the bulb likely cuts off current allowing the turbine to spin up easier, but will not pass many amps (if I understand correctly). A higher wattage bulb (100w) may be better, or at least something to try. The big resistors at 1 ohm seem to be allowing the amps which drags on the motor. Probably not the best understanding of it all, but trying to learn. Turbines are so much more involved than solar panels.
Yes, the previous batteries were old car batteries, recycled after they wouldnt reliably start the cars anymore.

You are correct. A higher wattage bulb does have a lower resistance but keep in mind it increases as the filament warms up resulting in the current going down. Hot filament resistance is voltage squared divided by watts. The hot resistance of a 100 watt bulb is 120x120 divided by 100. That would be 144 ohms. Check the resistance of a cold 100 watt bulb with an ohm meter and you will find it to be much less. Great for learning but complicates further testing.

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

So the hot resistance may not be a bad thing under certain circumstances. At high rpm and high voltage output (75+v) it may heat the filament and "throttle" the incoming amps, but i imagine at lower "normal" voltage (say 25-45v) it would likely "cool" back down and ohms would decrease allowing it to increase the amperage but prevent stalling. Maybe function as a current control and easy-start device?
Winds were very high after 10pm last night, I had tied off facing east, looks like that was a smart move, winds are still too high to play with today plus I have to work, but maybe later they will be in a range I can experiment with. I will order another pair of dump loads as I need something in place to act as a brake on the system when it winds up.

 

[NIFE]

So the hot resistance may not be a bad thing under certain circumstances. At high rpm and high voltage output (75+v) it may heat the filament and "throttle" the incoming amps, but i imagine at lower "normal" voltage (say 25-45v) it would likely "cool" back down and ohms would decrease allowing it to increase the amperage but prevent stalling. Maybe function as a current control and easy-start device?
Winds were very high after 10pm last night, I had tied off facing east, looks like that was a smart move, winds are still too high to play with today plus I have to work, but maybe later they will be in a range I can experiment with. I will order another pair of dump loads as I need something in place to act as a brake on the system when it winds up.

Low resistance increases current resulting in more load on the turbine. As resistance increases the turbine unloads.