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Supplemental Heating System?

Rumplestiltskin

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
10
Location
Sedona, AZ
Before I follow Alice down the rabbit-hole...

I live in a mfr'd home with little opportunity to upgrade insulation so that's not an option. This post/question only concerns winter heating, not summer cooling. I have a propane furnace and have found I'm able to reduce its use in the winter (propane use is expensive!) by dropping the temp to 55 and using an electric space heater in our bedroom on the "low" (750W) setting. It cycles on and off through the night and keeps the room comfortable, maybe at 68F. We have an additional small bedroom that's rarely used so another, smaller electric space heater on the low setting (maybe 375W?) should handle that.

What I'd love to do if if's not too expensive is to install some PV panels and a battery. Daytime use would be minimal because we get plenty of sun during the day which heats up the house so the propane furnace is only used for a few hours in the morning to warm up the house and rarely during the night to maintain the 55F in the rest of the home (meaning "other than the 2 bedrooms").

If my math skills haven't degraded too far, here's what I've calc'd (but please do correct me where I've err'd):

750W+375W=1125W to run the two heaters.
1125W x 5 hours per 8 hour period (cycling on/off over the night) = 5625Wh or 5.63kWh. Let's call it 6.0kWh. (I may be overestimating the actual use but better than underestimating it.) As this is nighttime use, I'd need a battery. But what size? I'm seeing "AmpHour" ratings and they're mostly 12V output.

Sedona has a little over 6 hours of useful daylight (according to online charts I've found); so I'd need enough PV panels to produce 1000W over each of the six available hours. That seems to be about four -but- what I've seen are 12V panels...so do I actually need 40 panels to juice up a large enough (??Ah?) battery?

I've been making the assumption that a 12V space heater (like for a car?) would be totally inadequate for my needs.

I'll appreciate if someone might put me out of my misery here. Thank you.
 
Going with you're 6.0kwh/day - I'd suggest you use PVWatts - https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php - to determine the amount of PV you need for 6kwh * 31days (of December) = 186kwh of consumable power for you're specific location. PVWatts will show you year around by month based on you're location's local weather. In my case I need ~7kwh of PV for this amount of power in winter (cloudy most of the days).

You mix in 12v in you're post but there's nothing particularly better about a 12v electric heater vs a 120v electric heater except you might save 15-20% in the conversion from DC to AC but there are trade-offs. For example, 12v heaters will be limited in BTU and you may want to expand you're PV/system once you see how cool a solar system can be. 2v systems have limits due to the practicality of wire sizes for the sheer amps. for example, 2000w / 12v is already reaching 167a. So I'd not get caught up in 12v just for 12v sake if that makes sense as 24v and 48v systems are better suited for expansion to larger scale.

If you want to focus on efficiency, maybe think mini-split (heat pump) rather than direct electric heat such as a DIY Mr Cool type mini-split. I have a Honneywell 10,000BTU portable heat pump in a room of my home and it does ~500sq ft at 1100w max power consumption for heat. My trailer 9000BTU mini-split maxes out at 1100w.
 
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6kWh / 6 peak sun hours = 1 kW of PV is all you need.
So, how many panels does it take to generate 1kW of power?
AH x V = KWH
100 AH x 51V battery = ~5kWh
I'm not sure whether the above was just a theoretical example or something specific to my question. But if I use that formula with 120v, then would this be correct: 6kWh = 50 AH x 120V ? As my heaters are 120V and the 6kWh is the amount of power I need over the 5 hours, I'd need a 50 AH battery(?). But the batteries I see are mostly 12v so I'm assuming there's a converter to step up the voltage to 120v. (I'm not an electrician, Jim! :ROFLMAO:)

Rather than designing and building a system from scratch, is there a pre-built "solution" (something like what I see from Bluetti when I search Amazon)? The things I'm seeing look like they cost in the neighborhood of $3000-5000 just to power my needs (as described in my original post). That doesn't seem to be cost effective considering the kWh cost in AZ.
6kWh x $.25/kWh = $1.50 x 180 days heating season = $270 per year
(My 180 days may be high as things are warming up...)
Looks like a payback period way longer than I plan to be in that house.

Time for me to close this thread?
 
So, how many panels does it take to generate 1kW of power?
It takes 4x 250W panels to generate at 1kW (1000W).
2x 500W panels
10x 100W panels.

Whatchagot?

 
What inverter are you planning to use to go from the 12v dc batteries to the 120v ac heaters
 
I can speak from personal experience, heating the same rooms to the same temperature can be done with a heat pump for a fraction of the power used with resistive heating.
 
I appreciate all the suggestions; however, there are things that would make a heat pump not the right answer in my situation. I won't detail all of them as it would just bore you. I'll just express my thanks for the suggestions.
 
Before I follow Alice down the rabbit-hole...

I live in a mfr'd home with little opportunity to upgrade insulation so that's not an option. This post/question only concerns winter heating, not summer cooling. I have a propane furnace and have found I'm able to reduce its use in the winter (propane use is expensive!) by dropping the temp to 55 and using an electric space heater in our bedroom on the "low" (750W) setting. It cycles on and off through the night and keeps the room comfortable, maybe at 68F. We have an additional small bedroom that's rarely used so another, smaller electric space heater on the low setting (maybe 375W?) should handle that.

What I'd love to do if if's not too expensive is to install some PV panels and a battery. Daytime use would be minimal because we get plenty of sun during the day which heats up the house so the propane furnace is only used for a few hours in the morning to warm up the house and rarely during the night to maintain the 55F in the rest of the home (meaning "other than the 2 bedrooms").

If my math skills haven't degraded too far, here's what I've calc'd (but please do correct me where I've err'd):

750W+375W=1125W to run the two heaters.
1125W x 5 hours per 8 hour period (cycling on/off over the night) = 5625Wh or 5.63kWh. Let's call it 6.0kWh. (I may be overestimating the actual use but better than underestimating it.) As this is nighttime use, I'd need a battery. But what size? I'm seeing "AmpHour" ratings and they're mostly 12V output.

Sedona has a little over 6 hours of useful daylight (according to online charts I've found); so I'd need enough PV panels to produce 1000W over each of the six available hours. That seems to be about four -but- what I've seen are 12V panels...so do I actually need 40 panels to juice up a large enough (??Ah?) battery?

I've been making the assumption that a 12V space heater (like for a car?) would be totally inadequate for my needs.

I'll appreciate if someone might put me out of my misery here. Thank you.
You're going to spend somewhere around $2k to build this system. $2k buys a LOT of propane.
 
I use a 250/500 watt quartz heater as a dump load on sunny winter days to heat the cabin and reduce propane use.

At night I set the propane furnace to 60 degrees and use an electric blanket that pulls 60 watts and sleep like a baby.

By reducing the cabin temp at night the fridge/freezers also run less so less drain on the batteries.
 
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