Tesla, the gift that keeps on giving.

[Jennifer]

Burning before it came to rest.
Was not an accident.
The fire didn't kill the victims, the G-forces did. 140 MPH.

Not sure if it is true, but people have said she held a cell phone out the window to record the event.
Of course, like drunk drivers, she pretty much walked away from it. Frontal impact, air bag. Maybe she even had seat belt on.

How the heck in LA do you even get enough legroom between lights to get up to that speed, absolutely crazy... I heard the same thing about the cell phone.

 

[Jennifer]

Burning before it came to rest.
Was not an accident.
The fire didn't kill the victims, the G-forces did. 140 MPH.

Not sure if it is true, but people have said she held a cell phone out the window to record the event.
Of course, like drunk drivers, she pretty much walked away from it. Frontal impact, air bag. Maybe she even had seat belt on.

She was trying to go back to the future, that's for sure, over 20 serious crashes in her history... it's why I never leave home... stuck on my 65 acres with my Victron equipment and Starlink, no concerns about Mercedes Benz's flying through my yard at mach 10...egads, I don't miss living in LA.

 

[robby]

The one thing that the government should mandate is that EV consortium design and develop something practical that can put out these EV fires.
As the number of EVs on the road grow the fire depts will be overwhelmed if they have to send out two fire trucks and spend hours dumping thousands of gallons of water on a single vehicle. They need a safe chemical that can put out the fire.
I have no idea what that would be but it’s got to be effective, quick and cheap or they have got to mandate them to only use LFP batteries.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Wonder how economical F500 would be.

 

[robby]

Wonder how economical F500 would be.

I remember trying to find the price for it and all I got was a Request Quote from every sellers website.
I got a feeling it's very expensive.

 

[wiseacre]

Would cement work to put out a Tesla fire?

 

[Ampster]

Given the amount of Teslas on the road it’s kind of amazing that this does not happen more often.

Statistically, on a per mile driven basis, a Tesla has less chance of a fire than an ICE vehicle. I find it amazing that ICE fites are not reported as frequently as they must happen. I have seen plenty on the Interstate and they are often total losses.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I remember trying to find the price for it and all I got was a Request Quote from every sellers website.
I got a feeling it's very expensive.

Definitely not cheap.

4L F-500 Fire Extinguisher Suitable for Lithium-Ion Battery Fires | Fire Products Direct

The LI-ion Fire Solution extinguisher is a water-type fire extinguisher with the F-500 Encapsulator agent. This Extinguisher has been manufactured and approved to Australian Standard AS/NZS1841.2 and tested as per the requirement of AS1850 for class A and F fires. Extensive testing has been...

www.fireproductsdirect.com.au

 

[SparkyJJO]

Statistically, on a per mile driven basis, a Tesla has less chance of a fire than an ICE vehicle. I find it amazing that ICE fites are not reported as frequently as they must happen. I have seen plenty on the Interstate and they are often total losses.

Because people are used to that. Electric cars burning spectacularly is news.

Of course, they want to push people to electric cars, but go crazy reporting every burning electric car...

Maybe they want to try to tarnish Musk, except everyone pretty much just sees an electric car fire and gets skittish about owning one.

Personally, I don't want an electric car, but part of that is I do not want explody cobalt batteries. Personal preference.

 

[Jennifer]

The one thing that the government should mandate is that EV consortium design and develop something practical that can put out these EV fires.
As the number of EVs on the road grow the fire depts will be overwhelmed if they have to send out two fire trucks and spend hours dumping thousands of gallons of water on a single vehicle. They need a safe chemical that can put out the fire.
I have no idea what that would be but it’s got to be effective, quick and cheap or they have got to mandate them to only use LFP batteries.

So true, think about all the small town volunteer depts, an event like that could wipe out the depts entire budget for the year. I don’t even have fire service where I live, I am the fire dept but the volunteer dept near me could never eat that expense.

Just another example of corporations getting the wins and the taxpayers getting the losses/cleanup….. Mayors or federal regulators should have said (to all EV manufacturers but I’ll use Elon as his seem to be the only ones self igniting on the back of wreckers (other than the i8 mentioned))“ If you want to put in super chargers across the county Elon, no worries but you need to support not just the electrical connection infrastructure that feeds it, but for every super charger you put in, a sum of money goes into a trust account with the local fire dept so they can afford to clean up the mess from the profit makers you’re pushing into our community.

 

[Ampster]

Personally, I don't want an electric car, but part of that is I do not want explody cobalt batteries.

You are in luck. Some EV manufacturers are starting to use LFP. I have been driving EVs since 2012 and have confidence in at least one manufacturer to have a good BMS and fire mitigation such that I have no concerns. My sister in law's Bolt was recalled because of potential for fires.

 

[zanydroid]

The shorter range Teslas tend to use LFP. I presume the battery pack takes a comparable mass and volume budget as the longer range NMC cars.

 

[Jennifer]

Would cement work to put out a Tesla fire?

Yes, if the fire was in the ashtray. ? the fires tend to be under the car where the batteries are be burn up from there. The cost to keep wet cement on fire trucks would be cost prohibitive.

 

[Ampster]

Would cement work to put out a Tesla fire?

Not likely for any EV with Cobalt technology. The reason is that when they get hot they give off oxygen which helps fuel the fires and typical smothering techniques do not work. Lots of water to cool the cells to prevent combustion seems to be the best approach. When cement cures, it actually gives off heat so I am not sure it would be any benefit versus the difficulty of have a batch of freshly mixed concrete available. It would be more expedient instead of adding water to cement, sand and gravel, to just put the water on the fire. Water is easier to put on a fire with typical pumps versus getting concrete moved with any normal device.

 

[Jennifer]

It seems to be total luck of the draw, some burn when sitting alone in the garage, some you can’t light on fire even after ramming a telephone pole halfway through the battery.

All my Tesla modules are going in a small outside power shed not attached to my home and I have a overpriced $2,000.00 + EVTV BMS but I can sleep at night, it’s just not worth the risk having them where you sleep.

Tesla Model 3 batteries show impressive fire resistance despite damage from high-speed crash

A high-speed accident involving a Model 3 crashing into a pole recently provided an impressive look at the fire-resistant capabilities of Tesla’s batteries. Despite major damage to the vehicle and two of the battery modules being breached from the violent impact, none of the Model 3’s 2170 cells...

www.teslarati.com

 

[robby]

Definitely not cheap.

4L F-500 Fire Extinguisher Suitable for Lithium-Ion Battery Fires | Fire Products Direct

The LI-ion Fire Solution extinguisher is a water-type fire extinguisher with the F-500 Encapsulator agent. This Extinguisher has been manufactured and approved to Australian Standard AS/NZS1841.2 and tested as per the requirement of AS1850 for class A and F fires. Extensive testing has been...

www.fireproductsdirect.com.au

LOL and if you read the info it says the largest size 9L which I assume means 9 Liters ($340 AU) has been tested on a 4.8KWh battery.
Since the mention different sized batteries for the 4L and 9L I think it's safe to assume that is how much liquid is needed.
Now lets scale that up to how much would be needed for a 100KWh Battery bank ?

 

[OffGridForGood]

Anyone know what battery is Volvo using?

 

[OffGridForGood]

"Statistics compiled by AutoInsuranceEZ found that for every 100,000 EVs, there are about 25 fires each year. That compares to 1,530 car fires in the same number of gas-powered vehicles annually. Gas-powered cars typically catch fire due to fuel leaks or crashes."

What if corrected for age of vehicle? Or owner conduct?
May not be due to EV vs. ICE differences, rather just age. Or how they are treated.

We don't have many 20 to 40 year old EVs to compare for that age range.
So should adjust the ICE fire statistics to reflect age mix of EV fleet.

(Similar adjustment for data needs to be done for statistics in "other" fields.)

Suppose EV's generally are say 5 years and ICE are 20 ie a 4:1 ratio
then the 25 auto fires per 100,000 for EV x 4 correction factor puts the adjusted rate to 100 EV auto fires/100,000
compared to 1530 ICE auto fires, making the ICE auto fires about 15x more common.

However it could also be that a disproportionate number of those ICE fires are only older cars, we would need data that show the distribution of the fires by car's age.

 

[Ampster]

However it could also be that a disproportionate number of those ICE fires are only older cars, we would need data that show the distribution of the fires by car's age.

There is another statistic based on miles driven which would eliminate any skew because of age.

Statistically, Tesla Car Fires Are Less And Less Frequent

Tesla has recently revealed its latest Vehicle Fire Data, which indicates another year of improvement in the reduction of fire incidents per driving distance.

insideevs.com

 

[robby]

However it could also be that a disproportionate number of those ICE fires are only older cars, we would need data that show the distribution of the fires by car's age.

Very valid point since most of the car fires I have seen have been older vehicles.
Ah the good old Ford Pinto ?