Test Hand Cart 3000W Near Completion

[GMB]

Very nice. Thank you for sharing. I am curious why you added a separate MPPT charger. Doesn't the Multiplus have a built in charger? And on that note, does the second charger "talk to" the Multiplus in anyway since they are both Victron?

The 250/100 is a solar charge controller for solar panels. The multiplus is an inverter and charger that uses shore power (plug in AC power) to charge. They speak to each other via the Victron Connect app.

Victron does make and all in one unit called the "Easy Solar" that would do all three functions listed above.

 

[alarmtech]

The 250/100 is a solar charge controller for solar panels. The multiplus is an inverter and charger that uses shore power (plug in AC power) to charge. They speak to each other via the Victron Connect app.

Victron does make and all in one unit called the "Easy Solar" that would do all three functions listed above.

Ahh ok, I mistakenly thought the MultiPlus was an all in one with a built in MPPT. Then I thought maybe more charging was needed was why..

 

[RickP]

Very nice. Thank you for sharing. I am curious why you added a separate MPPT charger. Doesn't the Multiplus have a built in charger? And on that note, does the second charger "talk to" the Multiplus in anyway since they are both Victron?

The MPPT is for solar charging, where as the Multiplus is an inverter charger for grid/generator charging when solar isn’t available and to, obviously, provide 120VAC power from the batteries. I wanted to have all three options, along with UPS type failover capacity when used to back up the grid (solar first is my normal option). The Multiplus allows all of these options.

One option that really suits my build is AC Ignore, a switching function in the Multiplus. As I want the solar to be primary, but also have grid or generator that I want available for extended days without significant sun, the system will ignore the incoming AC until my specific settings for battery drawdown are reached (due to lack of sufficient PV to recharge), then will use grid power to fully recharge the battery pack before going back into AC Ignore mode until needed again. It’s brilliant stuff, really. Victron builds some amazing gear.

It’s more involved than most ‘cart’ systems, but I had the cash saved for the Titan... so bigger, better, and more capable was the order of the day!

 

[RickP]

Give these guys a try:

Affordable Solar Panels & Accessories: New & Used Available!

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www.santansolar.com

I have picked up panels from them in Arizona and also had them ship panels to me in Ohio with great service each time.

I have been looking at their options and see a lot of satisfied customers. Definitely a first stop once I get my funds back!

 

[MrNatural22]

Ding dang %#*!?%#^ After reading this thread a zaagillion times and many others threads and Wills video on cart built gennys I started changing plans my over thought out plan for my two brand new Lion energy UT1300s and my brand new Samlex PST 2000 24 inverter In the cargo trailer build once the foggy -420- afflicted ? wheels in my brain pan started thinking again and imagining.
I’m making a cart genny that will be more useful for many uses Other than powering the trailer.
I can leave the trailer in it’s current 12v LiFePo 100ah and 327w Solar Panel set up to power the lights and misc other things and when I need that extra power for micros and cookers I can just play the cart ac from the Samlex into the shore power connection of the trailer and power all the trailers ac outlets. (4 15a outlets) Charge it up from the trailers 327w sun power panel thru another CC mounted on the cart. ( I also have a 3000w inverter gas genny for plan C)
Better get er done soon or my mind may change again ? ?

 

[RickP]

Ding dang %#*!?%#^ After reading this thread a zaagillion times and many others threads and Wills video on cart built gennys I started changing plans my over thought out plan for my two brand new Lion energy UT1300s and my brand new Samlex PST 2000 24 inverter In the cargo trailer build once the foggy -420- afflicted ? wheels in my brain pan started thinking again and imagining.
I’m making a cart genny that will be more useful for many uses Other than powering the trailer.
I can leave the trailer in it’s current 12v LiFePo 100ah and 327w Solar Panel set up to power the lights and misc other things and when I need that extra power for micros and cookers I can just play the cart ac from the Samlex into the shore power connection of the trailer and power all the trailers ac outlets. (4 15a outlets) Charge it up from the trailers 327w sun power panel thru another CC mounted on the cart. ( I also have a 3000w inverter gas genny for plan C)
Better get er done soon or my mind may change again ? ?

It was a fun build and I’ve already wheeled it around the house for a few uses. I’ll need to attach it to a more substantial cart at some point, but it works fine as is. Maybe I’ll connect it to one of my Magliner Gemini carts so I can convert it to 4-wheel mode!

 

[keydiver]

If you are looking for a great deal on panels, and you mentioned that you live in hurricane territory, check out Sun Electronics in Miami. I'm picking up about 5 or 6 kW of panels from them today, at .48 per watt. I'm using a 2S2P arrangement of the 60 cell 310 watt panels to feed a very similar portable system I built using Will's design. I'm going to use 4 of the 72 cell panels with a Growatt 3 kW hybrid inverter, also in a 2S2P design. So, the Epever/Giandel setup will be fed by 1240 watts of panels, and the Growatt will have 1440 watts. Both should easily keep my 3 kWh LG Chem packs fully charged to run a fridge and freezer indefinitely.
http://www.sunelec.com

 

[RickP]

If you are looking for a great deal on panels, and you mentioned that you live in hurricane territory, check out Sun Electronics in Miami. I'm picking up about 5 or 6 kW of panels from them today, at .48 per watt. I'm using a 2S2P arrangement of the 60 cell 310 watt panels to feed a very similar portable system I built using Will's design. I'm going to use 4 of the 72 cell panels with a Growatt 3 kW hybrid inverter, also in a 2S2P design. So, the Epever/Giandel setup will be fed by 1240 watts of panels, and the Growatt will have 1440 watts. Both should easily keep my 3 kWh LG Chem packs fully charged to run a fridge and freezer indefinitely.
http://www.sunelec.com

I’ll do that. Please let me know your impression of the construction once you can take a close look. I am across the Gulf to your west, on the coast of Texas. With the Yucatan already active this year, you just never know.

 

[Nitro]

Love this Build. I am looking to do a similar setup.

 

[RickP]

Refund finally happened yesterday, almost two months in. Now to purchase a few solar panels and put the charging side through its paces. I‘ve done quite a bit of testing and everything in the build is working as advertised. That’s a relief! I exect no issues with the solar charge controller, but everything has to pass testing before I’ll breath easy on it being completed. It’s been a blast learning throughout this project.

 

[RickP]

I thought I would update this thread at the 6 month point since start of build, for those interested.

Since completion and testing, the cart system has been powering one full size upright freezer and one full size refrigerator/freezer. This has worked well, and have provided a little value return on what is essentially an emergency use power supply. Thankfully, in a record setting Atlantic/Gulf Coast hurricane season, it was not needed for its intended purpose!

I did program the Victron Multiplus for AC Ingore, so it only uses mains voltage to charge the batteries when voltage is low, corresponding to sub-30% SOC. This has been a very inexact science without a device such as a Color Control GX in the system, due to the non-linear way LiFePO4 batteries discharge. I’ll likely add one at some point, but the cost has exceeded my already tapped out solar funds so far. If you’re wondering, the CCGX provides reading of use and production at multiple points, giving a more accurate SOC and means of controlling charge source.

While it rarely needed AC Mains charging assistance though the summer, as fall and winter came on, more regular AC charging occurs. This is, somewhat, to be expected, but also somewhat due to the stationary roof mounting of the panels which does not allow for maximizing sun angles in December. The sun angles also presented some unanticipated shading issues comparative to the sun’s arc in summer. Again, in emergency use the panels would be moved as required, but in this test/auxiliary use it just serves to illustrate the “time of year” difference in production of a static array. This also drove home the need to plan for this adjustability in future systems for home use (if possible).

So, I deem the build a success, not only as a power production system for which it was designed and built, but maybe even more as a learning experience for a newbie planning on bigger solar adventures in the future. And while it certainly has room for improvement, the hand cart power station has met or, in some ways, exceeded my expectations. I’m very happy with the outcome.

 

[scrooster]

Rick ... rough estimate on how much $$$$ you already have in this build and how much more you plan to put into it not counting the panels?

 

[RickP]

It wasn’t cheap... I decided early on to go with components I could use for a small house system, and since this was a true emergency use build I went for quality over bargain pricing throughout.

Exclusive of solar panels and their wiring, I’d say about $6.5 - 7K roughly. In that amount are also a few tools I needed to buy for assembly, such as a heavy duty crimper for cabling.

As an aside, I will be filing for tax rebate on this project as it is used for daily house power as well. That will reduce net cost by 20%, approximately.

As I said, not cheap, but as I was already considering buying a Titan package at similar cost, and this system is equal in performance and better in component quality, I considered it a good deal at a similar price/investment point. It’s all extremely proven gear that I anticipate remaining in service for decades.

 

[scrooster]

Ok thanks Rick, so that's about where I thought you will be, around $10k by the time you add panels, wiring and a proper container/box to attach to that dolly which, if you think about it, is a bargain given the components you chose.

By proper container/box I mean; I've always been of the mind that a mobile (carted and on wheels, beit horizontal or vertical) system is inherently flawed for one basic reason ... it is vulnerable to physical damage. And while a system such as yours is not likely to be easily tipped over by kids playing or big dogs rough-housing or earthquakes or storms ... there is that possibility should you choose to transport it in your truck to another location or even moving the unit up and down stairs from inside your home to your garage for instance.

With that in mind, fully protecting (by enclosing) all components raises the issue of heat build up. So the casing would have to be designed to vent the heat or to be fully opened/exposed when in use. Energy ingress/egress points would need to be cut-in to allow for outlets, input jacks, controls, switches and meters of various kinds as well as air intake and exhale vents and the fans to move the air.

All of this would also lessen, to some degree, the chance of fire due to whatever ... melt downs, heat build up, sparking, flammable gassing fumes building up and igniting, whatever. Whereas wood is both inherently heavy/bulky and flammable and subject to structural failure over time ... plastic or sheet steel would be lighter in weight and non-flammable and provide a more stable attachment surface, especially for components that are hung vertically.

I can only imagine that, during your process, you have already taken all of this into consideration? If so, do you have plans for protecting your components from potential damage? Have you seen any existing cases or tubs or boxes that might work ... anything your set-up might fit-inside-of and still be rigid enough to hold the weight and keep everything securely attached?

Forgive me for the off the wall question ... it's a personal concern of mine that I am trying to find a solution-for in advance.

FWIW I am so enamored with your set-up that I've already begun planning and budgeting for almost the exact same list of components and now I'm ready to approach a local welder I am friends with to see what it might take for him to cut, from stainless, and weld-together a suitable wheeled box that will hold and secure everything and still remain waterproof, shock proof and coolable (sic).

Any ideas you might have already explored would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Rick

 

[RickP]

Ok thanks Rick, so that's about where I thought you will be, around $10k by the time you add panels, wiring and a proper container/box to attach to that dolly which, if you think about it, is a bargain given the components you chose.

By proper container/box I mean; I've always been of the mind that a mobile (carted and on wheels, beit horizontal or vertical) system is inherently flawed for one basic reason ... it is vulnerable to physical damage. And while a system such as yours is not likely to be easily tipped over by kids playing or big dogs rough-housing or earthquakes or storms ... there is that possibility should you choose to transport it in your truck to another location or even moving the unit up and down stairs from inside your home to your garage for instance.

With that in mind, fully protecting (by enclosing) all components raises the issue of heat build up. So the casing would have to be designed to vent the heat or to be fully opened/exposed when in use. Energy ingress/egress points would need to be cut-in to allow for outlets, input jacks, controls, switches and meters of various kinds as well as air intake and exhale vents and the fans to move the air.

All of this would also lessen, to some degree, the chance of fire due to whatever ... melt downs, heat build up, sparking, flammable gassing fumes building up and igniting, whatever. Whereas wood is both inherently heavy/bulky and flammable and subject to structural failure over time ... plastic or sheet steel would be lighter in weight and non-flammable and provide a more stable attachment surface, especially for components that are hung vertically.

I can only imagine that, during your process, you have already taken all of this into consideration? If so, do you have plans for protecting your components from potential damage? Have you seen any existing cases or tubs or boxes that might work ... anything your set-up might fit-inside-of and still be rigid enough to hold the weight and keep everything securely attached?

Forgive me for the off the wall question ... it's a personal concern of mine that I am trying to find a solution-for in advance.

FWIW I am so enamored with your set-up that I've already begun planning and budgeting for almost the exact same list of components and now I'm ready to approach a local welder I am friends with to see what it might take for him to cut, from stainless, and weld-together a suitable wheeled box that will hold and secure everything and still remain waterproof, shock proof and coolable (sic).

Any ideas you might have already explored would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Rick

No problem on questions, I learned a ton over the course of the build and have had fun discussing the ways to better it. I have only added 4 x 300 watt panels to it at this point, so end cost all in was well under $9K, but you could add quite a bit more with these components.

On the fear of injury by tipping, etc, I can only say it’s a non-concern. It takes a focused effort to get it up on its two wheels and I’m certain inadvertent tipping is impossible. The ~150 pounds at the base attaches it to the ground quite securely!

Of course, that doesn’t mean it’s impervious to damage... far from it. And it would not be suitable for use exposed to inclement weather. A simple rain cover (tarp) suffices for protection from water while getting it into place, and it can continue operation under such covering if it were required, though my uses don’t entail that. Fortunately, none of the components are compromised if the cart is laid on its back or the like, and the handle still orients the cart in a slope towards the bottom, keeping the batteries in place. Substantial cables and lugs also help here.

But the main part of your post covers securing and protecting the items for all those outdoor, bad weather, rough environment situations into which a cart like this might be introduced. This is a great question, and something the build itself changed my mind on. Total weight, as built, is substantial. And I wouldn’t mind adding 2 to 4 more batteries in the future. All of this made me think that it might be better building a cart with the components and maybe one pair of batteries to be nominally operational, then building one or more battery carts as add on power to accessorize, utilizing high amperage Anderson connectors to attach them. Balancing cable lengths should be addressed for battery life, but it could be done. Just a thought as you plan for your needs. Loading my cart into a truck without a ramp is a healthy two man job! Breaking up the weight is a worthwhile consideration.

This would be the point where many would ask “why not get a Titan and some extra batteries?” Its a good question, easily answered for me at the time I built... there weren’t any. Add to this my questions about what is actually inside the box, longevity in use, proving in the wild, and support after the sale, well, Victron, BattleBorn, Cooper/Bussman, Blue Sea Systems etc are all tried and true sources for components. Were I to buy a pre-built all-in-one, I think it would still be the Titan, but I am glad I DIYed my unit instead.

Finally, materials. Yes, you are definitely right. I used wood because I didn’t really know what I wanted or would need when I started. Same for the old cart. The “carrier” portion of this system is all “fabrication of convenience!” It is the one portion that can clearly be improved upon, and I think you have already listed the considerations very well. Strength and durability are a must. Lighter weight would improve mobility and usefulness significantly. Protection from the elements while providing enough airflow for efficient cooling is a challenge in itself. You’re very much on the right track. Incidentally, the build was (for a time) going to be made on a metal 4-wheeled cart. Issues about sufficient clearance near exposed connectors and access for maintenance checks dashed my particular cart, but it can be done.

Should you decide to plan your build as an evolution of this one, I hope you’ll share the journey here. I’d be very interested to see what form it takes, and many here can learn from your processes. I look forward to it!

 

[scrooster]

Rick ... you are DA MAN on this cart build! I doubt very few, including Will, would tackle this completely even given unlimited funds which I am blessed to possess.

We're going to do this. My welding fabrication guy is a guy I served with in the 82nd who now does rought iron fences and gates here in SC. Your build combined with his metal work and my architectural/mechanical background are going to make this happen. I'm on it already ... but in full earnest after the Hollidays getting everyone on board. Done deal.

So happy that I joined this forum. Was hoping for this possibility. The cart project was driving me insane.

 

[RickP]

Awesome! Can’t wait to see what you guys come up with, and I’m sure it’ll be an improvement on mine! I hope to be able to steal some ideas from you along the way!

You‘re going to have a great time. I sure did!

 

[RickP]

Well, it wasn’t the expected hurricane in the summer but rather a freak winter storm knocking out power that gave this system its first “live fire” test. Foul weather and cloud cover compromised sun hours, but the Victron MultiPlus worked like a champ on portable generator power for recharging while other larger systems were running. I'm never 100% sure of anything until it earns its keep when the chips are down. I’m sure now!

As a power layer for when the generators were either off or unavailable, and within the scope of its power capability, it was an unqualified success on all fronts. I hope to add additional storage, but otherwise I’m totally satisfied.

Thanks to Will and others here who helped me learn enough to pull this off!

 

[curiouscarbon]

??

 

[curiouscarbon]

@RickP so glad to hear of the successful live test. Awesome that the multiplus was able to utilize generator power effectively in the face of reduced solar production.

Am working up to a DIY build involving a 24/3000 multiplus and your project is a source of encouragement for me, thanks! Still learning how to do.