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The Real Reason LA port is backed up

Bob B said:
.....but, in the video, they are talking about the key thing being the density of the canopy rather than the age of the tree ..... so, just plant with higher density and start culling trees later to make more room for larger trees.
Everything they talked about was also pine forests .... don't know if that is the same for trees that have larger leaves than pine.
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Yes I found that part confusing because she mentions density as part of the problem but orginaly stated that age is the problem. I suspect it has something to do with the out gassed CO2 from the root network being trapped by the high density of surrounding trees and getting soaked back up by the leaves before it can get past the Canopy. Thereby lowering the CO2 that reaches the atmosphere. It kind of explains why a trek through the Jungle is so tiring and hot. Maybe the CO2 is blanketing the air around you and cannot rise out fast enough?
 
fega72 said:
CO2 isn't the problem, CO2 is the gas of life - all plants needs CO2. If we reduce CO2 or remove it from the atmosphere -as it is planned- it will reduce the number of plants - aka food. Why nobody want to reduce carbon monoxide, sulphur dioxide and other harmful gases? Only CO2 is the big enemy...
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Because in 2009, the new radical leader of the EPA (Lisa Jackson), labeled CO2 a "dangerous pollutant" that needed to be regulated.
Hence most of our young people have grown up hearing CO2 called "carbon" which implies it is a dirty polluting molecule.
Brainwashing with propaganda IMHO

EPA Formally Declares CO2 a Dangerous Pollutant

Step aside, elected Members of Congress. If you can’t pass cap and trade legislation, The Environmental Protection Agency will move in with massively complex and... Read More
www.dailysignal.com www.dailysignal.com
CO2 is necessary for life and plants love it.
 
BMcL said:
Because in 2009, the new radical leader of the EPA (Lisa Jackson), labeled CO2 a "dangerous pollutant" that needed to be regulated.
Hence most of our young people have grown up hearing CO2 called "carbon" which implies it is a dirty polluting molecule.
Brainwashing with propaganda IMHO

EPA Formally Declares CO2 a Dangerous Pollutant

Step aside, elected Members of Congress. If you can’t pass cap and trade legislation, The Environmental Protection Agency will move in with massively complex and... Read More
www.dailysignal.com www.dailysignal.com
CO2 is necessary for life and plants love it.
Click to expand...
Honestly I don't know why you keep on Quoting stuff from the Dailysignal. I just looked on their website and one of the Top articles is "Justice Thomas has had a profound impact on our Liberty". Seriously! The man has a pretty simple voting system. If he thinks that it benefits the Democrats then kill it! He is the antithesis of what a Supreme Court judge is supposed to be, which is non partisan Judge. Even Kavanaugh did not take his hard confirmation hearing so personally that he is solely committed to a blind vendetta against the Liberals.

Anyway that article on CO2 is absolutely rubbish! You won't find a single reputable organization that will agree that spewing petrol based CO2 is a good thing for the planet. Sure Plants use CO2 as one component of their food source but it's not nearly enough to counter balance what we are putting into the air.

Let me speak on a Topic I am very familiar with as I have been Diving and keeping Reef Aquariums for 35+ Years.
The Ocean is what is absorbing most of the CO2 in the Atmosphere. That is one of the reasons why the reefs are dying. The Oceans have reached a point where the CO2 is acidifying the water and lowering the pH.

I am an Avid Scuba Diver and anybody on this forum who has been Diving for 30+ years will be able to confirm that what your being fed on the news about the Oceans dying is a watered down version of how bad it really is. Of course it's not just the CO2 being mixed into the Oceans but it's also the CO2 left in the atmosphere that is making the Temperature rise. That is another big factor with the reefs dying and the glaciers melting along with the drought that is killing half the planet and the floods that are deluging the other half. You also need to understand that the CO2 not only traps in heat but it also traps in cold air. So the summers get hotter and the winters get colder.

You say I am not giving solutions, so I will add one. We need to get off of fossil fuels as fast as possible and start to build more Solar Plants as well as more Nuclear Power Plants. We also need to revamp the Grid and the red tape for Community Micro Grids, so they are easy to implement. If we can do that and do it as a Global priority it will create lots of Jobs and buy us enough time until we can get Fusion Power plants up and running.
 
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robby said:
I am an Avid Scuba Diver and anybody on this forum who has been Diving for 30+ years will be able to confirm that what your being fed on the news about the Oceans dying is a watered down version of how bad it really is.
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One of the spots I dove in the 1990's, Palau, is not the same. Even the Jellyfish in Jellyfish lake are gone. What a shame.
 
The counter argument to ocean "acidification" is here. https://climatechangedispatch.com/co2-not-a-threat-to-oceans/

I don't doubt what you say about reef you have seen disappearing .... but the ocean is FAR from acidic. From what I have read, it is about 8.1 or 8.2 .... which is will into the base side of the scale. Even the most hysterical have said it may have gone from 8.2 to 8.1 .... a change of .1. It has to be below 7 to be acidic ... but the term ocean acidification sounds more alarming. I have a hard time believing that any ocean species is going to be that sensitive to a slight .... maybe within the margin of error .... PH change.
They try to use some sort of fuzzy math to show that a .1 change in PH is a 30% change .... sorry, but I call that BS.

On a river I used to fish, I saw all the frogs disappear over a period of about 5 years .... I DON'T think it had anything to do with CO2.
I think it had to do with the introduction of glyphosate .... Roundup ... into widespread use by agriculture. They are now fully engaged in cancer litigation, but keep cranking it out. It must be profitable enough they can afford all the lawyers. Since Bayer just decided to buy Monsanto .... seems like they aren't worried about the lawsuits at all.

Not every environmental thing is a result of excess CO2.
 
BMcL said:
Because in 2009, the new radical leader of the EPA (Lisa Jackson), labeled CO2 a "dangerous pollutant" that needed to be regulated.
Hence most of our young people have grown up hearing CO2 called "carbon" which implies it is a dirty polluting molecule.
Brainwashing with propaganda IMHO

EPA Formally Declares CO2 a Dangerous Pollutant

Step aside, elected Members of Congress. If you can’t pass cap and trade legislation, The Environmental Protection Agency will move in with massively complex and... Read More
www.dailysignal.com www.dailysignal.com
CO2 is necessary for life and plants love it.
Click to expand...
The ignorance is absolutely stunning...

You equate CO2 as being friendly and "necessary for life" because plants love it, and carbon as being a "dirty polluting molecule".

YOU are made of carbon genius... something like 18% of your mass is carbon.. You do know what mass is right? Do you eat carbon and suck on it for enjoyment? Breath in carbon dust? Do you consider yourself to be dirty and bad for the environment?

Hey man, if you're made up of carbon, it must be good for you right?

Let me augment your obviously highly educated scientifically literate understanding of the world around you.. Molecules, and the elements that make them up, are neither clean nor dirty. In fact, when it comes right down to it, they are all made of the same quasi-basic components.. Neutrons, protons, and electrons.. in different combinations. They are not clean, they are not dirty.

You are surrounded by life in one form or another.. The EVOLUTION that brought you here took place in a biosphere (Biosphere means environment) that contained specific characteristics of averaged temperatures, humidity, and atmospheric concentrations of certain gasses and compounds.
You EVOLVED to live under those specific conditions.. and when those conditions change too quickly, you die off...

Geological changes happen over the course of tens of thousands of years.. species have the ability to adapt to the slow changes.. When a super volcano goes off, or a space rock impacts the planet, we see mass extinctions due to the environment changing too rapidly. Humans are changing our environment within a time span of decades..

So when you say things like you just said, I just hang my head and shake it... makes me think of the cashier at Home Depot who couldn't figure out that 4 x 6 paint cans adds up to 24.
 
Bob B said:
The counter argument to ocean "acidification" is here. https://climatechangedispatch.com/co2-not-a-threat-to-oceans/

I don't doubt what you say about reef you have seen disappearing .... but the ocean is FAR from acidic. From what I have read, it is about 8.1 or 8.2 .... which is will into the base side of the scale. Even the most hysterical have said it may have gone from 8.2 to 8.1 .... a change of .1. It has to be below 7 to be acidic ... but the term ocean acidification sounds more alarming. I have a hard time believing that any ocean species is going to be that sensitive to a slight .... maybe within the margin of error .... PH change.
They try to use some sort of fuzzy math to show that a .1 change in PH is a 30% change .... sorry, but I call that BS.

On a river I used to fish, I saw all the frogs disappear over a period of about 5 years .... I DON'T think it had anything to do with CO2.
I think it had to do with the introduction of glyphosate .... Roundup ... into widespread use by agriculture. They are now fully engaged in cancer litigation, but keep cranking it out. It must be profitable enough they can afford all the lawyers. Since Bayer just decided to buy Monsanto .... seems like they aren't worried about the lawsuits at all.

Not every environmental thing is a result of excess CO2.
Click to expand...
You don't understand the complexity of how marine skeletons are formed. Also drops in pH are not even across the entire ocean, they tend to drop nearer to shore in shallow water which is where the corals happen to live,. They also vary from day going into night. Think of it like Climate change. People have a hard time grasping how so much damage can be done by a 3 deg increase in temperature. Others know that 3 deg is just the average change and that some places drop in temperature slightly and other places see a 6-10 deg rise.
 
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BMcL said:
Which is what Trump was doing. And the mainstream media made him out to be a devil/traitor/russian agent.
Our side never bought it; we supported him and most of his policies.
Especially the policy of moving manufacturing back out of China.
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his policy's were actually quite the opposite, he just added taxes for everyone ;)

no particularly good at looking at the bigger picture now are you ?
 
Has anyone besides me noticed that it is always the "liberal / progressive" who starts calling names? If your from that mindset aren't you supposed to MORE tolerant and inclusive?
 
robby said:
You don't understand the complexity of how marine skeletons are formed. Also drops in pH are not even across the entire ocean, they tend to drop nearer to shore in shallow water which is where the corals happen to live,. They also vary from day going into night. Think of it like Climate change. People have a hard time grasping how so much damage can be done by a 3 deg increase in temperature. Others know that 3 deg is just the average change and that some places drop in temperature slightly and other places see a 6-10 deg rise.
Click to expand...

I used to have a 55 gallon salt water aquarium .... so, I have dealt with keeping the water healthy .... no, I didn't have any reef type animals.

Anyone claiming that a PH change from 8.2 to 8.1 is a 30% change .... and the ocean is getting "acidified" is just adding more hype on top of other hype. That amount of PH change is almost insignificant and certainly isn't going to cause harm to ocean species .... OH, and it's just too hard for you to understand .... Yeah, I think anyone who claims to understand that is high on something.
 
Ampster said:
No, I have noticed that kind of behavior across all spectrums of human beings. What does that have to do with the title of this thread?
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It certainly seems to be more skewed to one side on this forum.

Strongly disagreeing with someone's view is not the same as calling names.
 
Bob B said:
Anyone claiming that a PH change from 8.2 to 8.1 is a 30% change
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pH scale is logarithmic. Going from 7 to 8 is multiplying by 10. Therefor, a change of 0.1 is equivalent to a 26% change:

pH = -log(10)[H+], therefor:

[H+] = 10 ^ -8.2 = 6.30957344e-9 (orig)
[H+] = 10 ^ -8.1 = 7.94328235e-9 (dest)

Percentage change = (orig - dest)/dest = -0.25892541318 ; or 26%
 
Bob B said:
I used to have a 55 gallon salt water aquarium .... so, I have dealt with keeping the water healthy .... no, I didn't have any reef type animals.

Anyone claiming that a PH change from 8.2 to 8.1 is a 30% change .... and the ocean is getting "acidified" is just adding more hype on top of other hype. That amount of PH change is almost insignificant and certainly isn't going to cause harm to ocean species .... OH, and it's just too hard for you to understand .... Yeah, I think anyone who claims to understand that is high on something.
Click to expand...
I never said the Ocean was at 8.1 pH or that 8.2 to 8.1 is a 30% change?. I am saying it will get lower than that at the reefs near to shore. I have personally measured it in the Caribbean on one trip and found a low of 7.8 which is below tolerance levels for many reef organisms and a complete disaster for the Planula as they cannot form a skeleton.
You do understand that corals survive on calcification. It's what makes a coral lay down their hard skeletons and what gives a crab it's shell. Any increases in the waters acidity level will of course interact with Calcium and prevent the Calcification process from happening. We try to keep reef tanks at 8.3 to 8.4 pH because it makes calcification easier on the corals and makes them grow a lot faster. We can get corals to grow inches in a year in a tank when in the ocean that same coral would take several years to reach that size. That is the power of going up by .1 to .2pH in Alkalinity. Understand the reverse happens when you drop the pH by .1 or .2

Your using your thought process on how Animals survive on land and projecting it into how Animals survive in the water. It's not the same! Land animals adapt to changes but most Aquatic life, especially corals don't have that ability. What they will do is try and that is why they slowly over a period of years wither away when any of their normal parameters go out of whack.
The Ocean is an extremely stable environment. Maybe hundreds of time more stable than the land. The Oceans are 2/3 of the planet and a lot more if you look at it by Cubic feet. Waters ability to dilute chemicals is amazing and this property of dilution is why the Ocean is so stable. Even Temperature changes in the air have very little if no effect on the deep Ocean but all of these things change as you go into shallower waters.

Why do you think the Gulf of Mexico is a Hurricane magnet? It's because you have hundreds of miles of very shallow water that heat up very quickly in the summer. Go out past the shallows and the Temperature, pH and pollutant levels drop off significantly. Unfortunetly Corals need high intensity light so deep water is not compatible for their survival.
 
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upnorthandpersonal said:
pH scale is logarithmic. Going from 7 to 8 is multiplying by 10. Therefor, a change of 0.1 is equivalent to a 26% change:

pH = -log(10)[H+], therefor:

[H+] = 10 ^ -8.2 = 6.30957344e-9 (orig)
[H+] = 10 ^ -8.1 = 7.94328235e-9 (dest)

Percentage change = (orig - dest)/dest = -0.25892541318 ; or 26%
Click to expand...
.... so, an answer I can't argue with ..... but I guess I still maintain that a PH of 8.1 is still a VERY long way from being acidic .... and throwing the term "acidification" into the works is nothing more than an attempt to over amplify the change.
 
Bob B said:
but I guess I still maintain that a PH of 8.1 is still a VERY long way from being acidic.
Click to expand...

It's not that it's acidic as such, it's that the terms used are acidify/acidity (meaning, a drop in pH, or rather H+ concentration). The reason this matters: a drop in your blood pH of 0.1 can result in seizures, heart arrhythmia, and even coma (see acidosis). Marine organisms are similarly very sensitive to the changes in acidity (or H+ concentration).
 
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