diy solar

diy solar

The US government opens 22 million acres of federal lands to solar

Here in Central Oregon the 1.8 million acres of the Deschutes National Forest has many hundreds, maybe thousands, of miles of roads and trails to explore. It's border is 1/2 mile from my house. BLM land a few miles to the east is vast. Almost all NF and BLM is open to dry camping wherever you want. I can ride my motorcycle all day long and not see another person. I can't imagine living in a place without public land. A few dozen square miles of solar panels won't make a dent.
 
Every time you guys say BLM I think of the burned and looted neighborhoods from a few years ago 🤪
 
Back East there's almost nothing like this. Some up in Michigan. Nearly everything East of the Mississippi is owned by someone!
 
Got to love today’s “environmentalist” who support maximizing human impacts upon on nature in the name of “green energy“. It’s a desert or vacant land so it’s ok to strip the land clean and keep it sterile. There’s nothing out there. Wrong! There is life there, you’re just not looking for it. These massive solar farms create localized weather variations impacting weather patterns downstream. The land in, around, and under the panels are kept plant free with chemical sterilizing products resulting in dead zone for insects, reptiles, birds, and any mammals that call the desert home. What little rain does fall in these areas, the water runoff is now contaminated with those chemicals.

Environmentalists of the 60-70s were all about minimizing human impacts on nature and being wise stewards. Today they look the other way on these impacts around the world as long as you say it’s for “green energy “. They’re saving the planet after all!

Solar on roof tops, warehouses, parking lots, roadways, etc. is perfect. Covering the land and waterways with panels…..not wise stewardship.
 
I've collected fossils on BLM land. Permits required in many areas we go, but not hard to come by if for a research or educational purpose.
 
Remember that time we built a road through the everglades, not fully understanding how disrupting the sheet flow of water through the area was going to devastate the area.. and then we fast forward to day where we are spending millions and millions of dollars to try and restore the previous *natural* sheet flow? (lookup the everglades restoration project)

The reality is, Every single thing the federal government touches.. goes to crap. IMO They need to get back to their basic duties, and stop trying to manage everything else. It's simply not their role, or expertise.
 
Can you pick out the BLM land from the privately owned land on this satellite image? Bonus points, there is a 5MW solar farm on 50 acres in this image that I have drive by a hundred times, and it is dwarfed by the alfalfa farms. A 400 MW facility has been approved for the area.IMG_5638.jpg
 
Got to love today’s “environmentalist” who support maximizing human impacts upon on nature in the name of “green energy“. It’s a desert or vacant land so it’s ok to strip the land clean and keep it sterile. There’s nothing out there. Wrong! There is life there, you’re just not looking for it. These massive solar farms create localized weather variations impacting weather patterns downstream. The land in, around, and under the panels are kept plant free with chemical sterilizing products resulting in dead zone for insects, reptiles, birds, and any mammals that call the desert home. What little rain does fall in these areas, the water runoff is now contaminated with those chemicals.

Environmentalists of the 60-70s were all about minimizing human impacts on nature and being wise stewards. Today they look the other way on these impacts around the world as long as you say it’s for “green energy “. They’re saving the planet after all!

Solar on roof tops, warehouses, parking lots, roadways, etc. is perfect. Covering the land and waterways with panels…..not wise stewardship.
I think you are way off base on your thinking and I completely disagree with your comments. "Environmentalists" ARE sensitive to nature and living things. Environmentalists don't have the money nor giant corporate backing to mine lithium in the Salton Sea or create large solar and wind projects funded by utilities and corporations. Environmentalists are regularly blamed for opposition and holding up projects to protect all wild life, plant and animal and this has never changed. Just ask the desert tortoise. Environmentalists see the need to maintain clean air quality and preserve fresh water and not gut the EPA and eliminate state laws that protect our natural surrounding. Environmentalists oppose selling national parks to wealthy private individuals. The list goes on and on and the opposition to this is all too clear in this country.
 
Don’t forget that Fed land is YOUR land . And MINE too. Don’t fuck it up

The Feds don’t, WE do
Generally agree but sometimes the Feds screw it up.

For example, In recent decades the Feds wanted more wilderness land designated in the East. Apparently someone in a position of authority decided we needed more wilderness land in the East because most of the wilderness lands are in the West. I guess the fact that Europeans first settled in the East and worked those lands for centuries was somehow forgotten. The Feds had their eyes on some National Forest land they wanted to designate as a new wilderness area. The problem was, the land had been clear cut 2 times in the last 100 years, a railroad and spurs had been built through the middle of the land, several railroad trestles, some roads, some logging camps, private hunting camps and skid trails everywhere.

Since the government's definition of "wilderness" included phrases like "pristine land largely untouched or unaltered by humans": the Feds had a problem. The proposed land did not meet the government's own definition for "wilderness land". So, after a prolonged period of meetings, discussions and public comments, the government did the only thing they could do.... They simply changed the definition of "wilderness", and voila, now we have a new wilderness area. The Feds did their best to remove as much of the evidence of human manipulation of the land as they reasonably could. The rest they figured that time would do for them.

There are only a few designated trails through the land. Due to the difficult terrain it is hard to access many of the trails unless you are prepared for at least a 2 day hiking trip. Evidently, there are only a small number of people who are willing or able to do that type of trip. About 10 years ago I decided I was going to attempt to cross through the wilderness area on an East/West trail. The North/South trail was heavily used in the summer months but the East/West trail was not used much. I discovered the trail to be so poorly marked and unused it was impossible to follow even with a good topographic map and a good GPS. The moose trails were better than the Forest Service trail. That hike was the beginning of many hikes I made into the wilderness area. Ultimately, I covered more than 1,000 miles in and around this wilderness area. I mostly bushwacked because the trails were poor and quite boring. The Forest Service eventually heard about my hiking trips and began asking for my feedback about what I found. I discovered through their questions they had not even been on the East/West trail in a very long time. If they had not been on that trail then it would also be safe to assume the entire area around that trail was also ignored because the trail was the only access.

For those who may not know, wilderness land designation means there can be no motorized activities on the land. No vehicles, roads, snowmachines, ATVs, drones, or even chainsaws to clear trails. The trails are not heavily maintained but should be marked well enough to follow (but don't count on it). You will probably not find any shelters either. Hunting usually occurs only on the edges of the wilderness where it is easier to retrieve big game animals.

The Forest Service created this wilderness area with the stroke of a pen. In doing so, they took an area that was used by many for recreation, sport and for timber harvest and created an area that is largely unused by humans and can no longer be productively used for timber. But what about the benefit to wildlife? Surely the animals must thrive in such a large area devoid of human interference, right? Well... mostly no. The deer are very few and quite small relative to the other deer in the region. Why? There is a lack of good food for the deer. Without deer there are not many large preditors like coyotes and foxes. Wild turkeys? almost none existant but very common outside of the wilderness area. Partridge/grouse? A few widely scatered. Bear? They do pretty well, I think because they naturally cover so much ground they use the area to overwinter and get away from people but they probably find most of their food elsewhere. Moose? Some scattered but mostly small and unhealthy due to excessive ticks and poor food. Rabbit/Hare? Almost non-existant. Lynx? A very few, probably coming down from Canada. Wolf? I did find 1 wolf track, probably a lone male that came down from Canada. Birds? very few. You can sit and listen for a long time and there is almost no bird noise. You will see Chickadees and the occasional preditory bird. Squirels, chipmonks rodents? very few. Mice are the most common but still not a lot.

Since logging is not allowed, the forest has matured and there is mile after mile of mature trees with no clearings which allows sun to penetrate to the forest floor creating "edge" and food for wildlife. Edge is where mature forest meets more open meadow land. Edge is what many animals need to thrive. The plan is to let nature do it's thing without human interference. The problem is that man has already interefered. The forest is nothing like it was prior to the first clear cut. The regeneration of tree species was badly altered because modern forestry techniques were not used and did not exist at the time (early 1900s). Without human intervention the forest will take centuries or longer to reach some sort of natural equilibrium. If the Forest Service was willing to allow the land to be properly managed the past mistakes could be fixed much more rapidly. The forest would be healthier and the wildlife would benefit as well.

So, sorry for the long winded response but, no the Feds do not always get it right.
 
Groups of "hunters" show up each year to shoot gophers that have the audacity to try and live in their former homes after farmers scrape it clean and plant alfalfa there. I don't think the animals or the plants will have a problem with a few solar panels.
View attachment 191474
Good spot for a solar project, between Fort Rock and Christmas Valley. I assume the existing 5mw project shown is at the old backscatter radar site near the Lost Forest and sand dunes? When the government built the radar site they also built the power lines to power it. When backscatter radar became obsolete they dismantled it but now use the power lines to transport power from the solar site to the grid.
 
I have mixed emotions about this. Solar is a good thing, but if it involves taking away public hunting land to get it, I'm not a big fan. I wonder how many panels a misplaced .30-30 shot would ruin.

Public lands are already shrinking enough as it is, not to mention the deals they have with timber companies here that render the land almost unusable for a few years.

I would be more happy to see the government purchase private land, and put panels there.
 
Good spot for a solar project, between Fort Rock and Christmas Valley. I assume the existing 5mw project shown is at the old backscatter radar site near the Lost Forest and sand dunes? When the government built the radar site they also built the power lines to power it. When backscatter radar became obsolete they dismantled it but now use the power lines to transport power from the solar site to the grid.
The 5MW solar field is about 10 miles from town on the CV highway. The radar site is about 15 miles from town.
 
22 million acres - that is a lot of land area.
By some estimates, a Solar array "100 miles x 100 miles" would power the Nation. That would be 6.4 million acres, ie 29% of the above noted available area.
A large amount of solar is already in place, much of this on private lands, reducing how much new land would be needed if that were the goal.
Some areas will be studied and found to be unsuitable, for varous reasons.
I don't think you guys need to worry that 22 million acres of federal land are going to be covered in solar panels.
From the other discussion, it would seem even if the goal was to build 6.4 million acres of solar, this would take decades.

I wonder how many acres of existing roof there are, in the lower 48.
 
Environmentalists of the 60-70s were all about minimizing human impacts on nature and being wise stewards. Today they look the other way on these impacts around the world as long as you say it’s for “green energy “. They’re saving the planet after all!

Solar on roof tops, warehouses, parking lots, roadways, etc. is perfect. Covering the land and waterways with panels…..not wise stewardship.
I like the sentiment, but I think there is a balance on both sides. The amount of land we are talking is pretty small in the grand scheme. I also think having federal land has generally been a good thing thus far. I'm pretty libertarian but once we decide to create a government I think it's important to allow it to have control over significant resources that can benefit everyone. It's a tightrope.
 
That's fine to talk about land use but who's going to pay for all those panels and related infrastructure?
 
That's fine to talk about land use but who's going to pay for all those panels and related infrastructure?
Probably the same companies that build the gas and coal and nuclear power plants. I mean, all of the utility scale solar installs I know of so far are being financed and built by private companies and for-profit utilities.

Check out the link I posted above (#29).
 
If you are on the grid you are already paying for solar panels and infrastructure. Its just not in your back yard.
Inflation Increase Act, Grants, Carbon Credits. IE: Consumers and especially taxpayers.
 
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