This explains the Aptos flimsiness.....

[OffGridIdaho]

Bi-facial with ZERO glass on back. The back is some kind of plastic lamination. I do not see these surviving even one Idaho winter.
Unknown glass thickness as SS told me 1.6mm each side, so now not sure.

Non bi-facial have the laminate type of backing but are 3-4mm thick glass.

 

[Brucey]

1.6mm glass TOTAL with only glass on front and ZERO glass on back. The back is some kind of plastic lamination. I do not see these surviving even one Idaho winter.

View attachment 222553

Is this another thread about your busted pallet from signature solar?

 

[OffGridIdaho]

Is this another thread about your busted pallet from signature solar?

This is a new thread about the flimsy panels we assumed had 1.6mm glass on front and back. This explains why they are so flimsy. Something none of us knew. I just flipped one over to look at the back and noticed no broken glass and took a harder look and noticed the plastic coating.

Does it bother you? You can not read this thread if you are triggered in some way. Seems to be the new normal where everyone is triggered and offended by everything. Just move along is so. I don't have time to soothe your feelings.

 

[sunsurfer]

I've seen similar looking panels for sale on facebook market place. Good to know they are junk.

 

[GXMnow]

All non bifacial panels only have a plastic back sheet and it has never been a big problem. The back side of the panel is not subjected to any impact in normal use. In shipping, they do need to be well packed and protected, as do any non bifacial panel. I have no personally seen any panel with glass on the back side, though I have seen a few advertise it, and people complaining they are very heavy to get on a roof.

When handling and installing any solar panels, you do need to be careful to not impact the back side on anything. I put a small gash in the back of one of my panels, but got luck, it missed all the cells and didn't break the bus bar, but it did nick it a bit. I tested the panel and the VOC and ISC matched a non damaged panel, so I used a little silicone to seal the gash against water getting in.

 

[Brucey]

This is a new thread about the flimsy panels we assumed had 1.6mm glass on front and back. This explains why they are so flimsy. Something none of us knew. I just flipped one over to look at the back and noticed no broken glass and took a harder look and noticed the plastic coating.

Does it bother you? You can not read this thread if you are triggered in some way. Seems to be the new normal where everyone is triggered and offended by everything. Just move along is so. I don't have time to soothe your feelings.

But wasn't the previous thread about the flimsy panels? Not to be confused with the original FedEx destroying a pallet thread.

Without going for some "plea to authority" argument Will has tested a whole bunch of bifacials and considers these to be the some of the least "flimsy" he's worked with

Post in thread 'Are bi-facials supposed to be flimsy and flex like a fun-house mirror?' https://diysolarforum.com/threads/a...ex-like-a-fun-house-mirror.85056/post-1111337

 

[OffGridIdaho]

All non bifacial panels only have a plastic back sheet and it has never been a big problem. The back side of the panel is not subjected to any impact in normal use. In shipping, they do need to be well packed and protected, as do any non bifacial panel. I have no personally seen any panel with glass on the back side, though I have seen a few advertise it, and people complaining they are very heavy to get on a roof.

When handling and installing any solar panels, you do need to be careful to not impact the back side on anything. I put a small gash in the back of one of my panels, but got luck, it missed all the cells and didn't break the bus bar, but it did nick it a bit. I tested the panel and the VOC and ISC matched a non damaged panel, so I used a little silicone to seal the gash against water getting in.

Aptos DNA-120-BF26-370W 370 Watt Bifacial Mono Solar Panel​

But the non bi-facial glass is 3-4mm thick not 1.6mm. 1.6 total is nuts!

What is the thickness of solar panel glass?
3 to 4 mm,

When I called SS they told me it was 1.6mm both sides. So I bought them thinking that. Now I am concerned they will not survive the super harsh weather here. Maybe I am wrong? I will post back after winter and let everyone know. I cannot imagine how flimsy the bigger aptos are. They must be like a sheet of newspaper in the wind.

 

[cs1234]

I wanted to get some bifacials and stand them up vertically in an East/West configuration. I'm thinking a lightweight plastic backside probably wouldn't be good for that particular configuration. These Aptos ones are probably fine for a more traditional 30 to 45 degree installation.

Are the majority of bifacials glass on the backside, with these Aptos being the exception? Or are glass backsides unusual?

 

[robby]

The glass cannot be 1.6mm thick!
I would think that just the lifting it by one side would cause it to break if it was that thin.

 

[Lt.Dan]

I agree another thread wasn't really necessary. You could have added this to your other thread...

Thanks for the info on the plastic backing and not glass. I still like them

 

[OffGridIdaho]

The glass cannot be 1.6mm thick!
I would think that just the lifting it by one side would cause it to break if it was that thin.

SS told me it was 1.6mm on each side, so going by what they said.

 

[400bird]

I've got two ideas:
Measure the glass on some of your broken panels. Post close up pics from the side of the pieces, showing the layers.
Don't buy the cheapest panels available, this continues their drive to make cheaper panels and cut more corners, like you're suggesting here.

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

I lost track, so Sorry but:

1. Are these the same panels Will tested?

2. Did the panels Will tested have glass on the back side?

 

[cs1234]

I lost track, so Sorry but:

1. Are these the same panels Will tested?

2. Did the panels Will tested have glass on the back side?

1. I believe so.
2. No. I don't think they did.

 

[Crowz]

How much they weigh should be a dead giveaway on the glass thickness too.

How much do they weigh?

 

[Lt.Dan]

How much they weigh should be a dead giveaway on the glass thickness too.

How much do they weigh?

They are very light, comparable to my 250w Trina (SanTan) panels. I helped Will set up the panels in his video. They were awesome to setup. The back is definitely not glass because it's like a semi-matte finish. I just didn't think about it when we were moving them

 

[sunsurfer]

living in hail country, I would want thicker glass.

 

[jzampieron]

It's not so important what they are made out of, but rather the represented characteristics ratings. -- i.e. from the Data Sheet.

I have a pallet of Aptos 370W (DNA-120-BF26-370W) from SS sitting in my garage. The pallet is in excellent condition, even the plastic wrap is nearly flawless (thanks Fedex Freight).

The ratings are 5400 Pa (113psf) Snow Load and 6200 Pa wind load.

Glass is 3.2mm, weight is 42.9lbs (19.5kg) according to the data sheet.

If any of that isn't correct then I'll be having a convo. w/ Aptos and SS about it.

 

[jzampieron]

Just FYI, I have noticed slight parameter variations on datasheets from unit conversions (i.e. SAE to Metric) so just be aware that there is some tolerance to what's printed on the datasheets.

 

[Steve777]

Bi-facial with ZERO glass on back. The back is some kind of plastic lamination. I do not see these surviving even one Idaho winter.
Unknown glass thickness as SS told me 1.6mm each side, so now not sure.

Non bi-facial have the laminate type of backing but are 3-4mm thick glass.

Interesting, if that's right it would certainly explain the "floppiness" of the panels. It sure seems like there is no glass on the backside in that pic; the surface is bent with no signs of cracks which glass would have.

Just curious if you measured the thickness of any of the broken glass fragments from the front side. Just wondering if Aptos changed the specs and was putting 3.2mm of glass on the front with a plastic back. If the panels weigh in at ~40# then that would point to around 3.2mm of glass (somewhere). For comparison a Hyperion 400W panel with 4mm of glass is ~60# and is fairly rigid.

I too would be concerned about wind/snow/hail damage if indeed the panels only have 1.6mm of glass in them. Might be OK if they made other adjustments, but if they just ran out of back glass and did bunch of panels with plastic on the back that would be a concern. I would also be concerned if the back side was plastic and how transparent it will be in the years to come, for the bifacial power.

I think you are justified in trying to get some answers here.

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

Interesting reading on Solar glass < 3mm thick in particular....TMI. Didn't seem worthy of a new thread without more specific info.

Spontaneous glass breakage on solar panels on the rise

The National Renewable Energy Laboratory noted an increase in spontaneous glass breakage in solar panels. The PV Module Index from the Renewable Energy Test Center investigates this and other glass-related trends in solar manufacturing.

pv-magazine-usa.com

 

[Citlalatonac]

Interesting reading on Solar glass < 3mm thick in particular....TMI. Didn't seem worthy of a new thread without more specific info.

Spontaneous glass breakage on solar panels on the rise

The National Renewable Energy Laboratory noted an increase in spontaneous glass breakage in solar panels. The PV Module Index from the Renewable Energy Test Center investigates this and other glass-related trends in solar manufacturing.

pv-magazine-usa.com

Good article. It really would be nice to have certifications for hail resistance. I'm a cheap ass, but would definitely be willing to fork out a few extra pennies per watt to have panels I could count on to not get smashed by a slightly above average hailstorm.

 

[SparkyJJO]

It sure seems like there is no glass on the backside in that pic; the surface is bent with no signs of cracks which glass would have.

You haven't seen the glass shelves in my freezer then lol. Those things have quite a bow to them even only 2/3 loaded of their rating. Scares me to do any more.