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diy solar

UK Solar DIY install help on planning/installing - Consumer Units (Distribution board)

lycaki

New Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2022
Messages
23
Hi Good Solar People,

This is a UK installation, would be interested if people from all over could help out with some of my understanding as apart from certification, I think the concepts are the same.

First, I'm just trying to get my head around a lot of concepts and installs. Here in the UK, it's a minefield of installation issues if you attempt DIY. let's assume everything is approved at the end by an electricians at the end point, so as not to get stuck on the 'you're gonna die' if you continue.
I just want to see how much is possible and how much I can do by myself (with friends etc), keeping costs down while staying safe etc!

I have a garage roof with enough space (south facing) to put at least 4kw panels (want to put much more but depends on how much budget I have left). I already have tested and installed a low key DIY offgrid with a 2kw worth of panels (resting in garden) and a MPPT for a 24v 2x12v lead acid battery into an old 24v repurposed 1200kva UPS - works great for the garage. really simple to use and install. So this has made me want to go full scale!

My perfect installation would be the 4kw of panels (or more) on roof of garage installed by me with a 5-6kw (minimum) inverter which is hybrid feeding 17kw of storage into LiFePO4 52v batteries DIY (from Eve cells 3.2v 280ah), however I do not want any backfeeding but I will need grid support (as the UK in winter is tough to produce enough energy).
Battery building, I'm ok with, DIY construction and BMS look very safe and I can build this for around £2k.

My main question, I want in the Sumner to be completely offgrid and use the collected energy storage and the solar to provide enough energy. 5-6kw inverter at the moment is enough - would theoretically be enough to use all the equipment we have (with planning and understanding not everything can go on at same time etc). Winter and other times, I'd want to use the grid to top up the battery and use that at night (more than enough if topped up) - here there are some night time/ off peak cheap electricity usage rates. I'd want to use that with the battery storage/inverter etc.

What's the best practice for connecting into the consumer unit when intending offgrid installs. Would you use the existing Consumer unit (this is called a Distribution Board I think in other parts of the world) and then have an isolation switch at the tails which could divert power from grid only and then from Solar only. Same consumer unit but can ONLY be used for either solar or Grid (would be impossible to use both at same time - assume extra protection is put in place to allow for extra fuses if needed).

Also, I've seen that the hybrid inverters can plug into the exiting 'system' and allow for zero backfeeding by prioritising solar/battery and then if there is none (or not enough) use grid. However, how are they attached into the existing Consumer unit? - I've seen people just use a spare input (inside the CU) - how does that work when powering the house, does it backfeed the house through that connection? Then switch to grid only if needed... ? That part I find confusing when looking at installs. Again assume no shortcuts when it comes to wire gauge size and amp understanding through the circuits.

How exact are these hybrid Solar inverters do they need approval before connecting to the grid in ANY circumstance even if they have zero backfeeding (I can understand that they could potentially fail etc). Here, If they are attached to the grid extra certification and certified installers (to prevent any issues) may be needed, hence the isolation divertor switch, only allowing one direction and offgrid only. This installation would be an ongrid/offgrid but controlled by the inverter.

Or do people build a separate Consumer unit (DB) for the Solar install and connect this to existing installation - if so, how is that done and why would you duplicate?
Does anyone have any good photos of their CU to their Solar/Inverter/Battery - In the rest of the world, I think they use similar concepts to feed their house.

I appreciate a good solar electrician will know exactly but I wanted to understand the concept of how much of it is possible before handing off to an electrician.

Then the minefield of certification/approval here - how much of this can be signed off on DNO and approved - once over a certain size. Again anyone who can help someone in UK to get to a point where they can DIY up to the limit of what DIY is allowed.

Thanks for reading if you've got this far, appreciate any help or guidance!
 
The DNO will require that you inform them of any grid tied system , irrespective of backfeeding

Where the system exceeds 3.6kwp or has a battery or islanding features , then you must seek DNO permission and they may elect to inspect the installation.

In basically all cases anything grid tied will need professional install and or certification.
 
Ok, so the moment it's grid tied it becomes liable for DNO and their approval. Have you done anything yourself with DNO approval or all through installers. Thanks
 
I found this info useful
Hi Good Solar People,

This is a UK installation, would be interested if people from all over could help out with some of my understanding as apart from certification, I think the concepts are the same.

First, I'm just trying to get my head around a lot of concepts and installs. Here in the UK, it's a minefield of installation issues if you attempt DIY. let's assume everything is approved at the end by an electricians at the end point, so as not to get stuck on the 'you're gonna die' if you continue.
I just want to see how much is possible and how much I can do by myself (with friends etc), keeping costs down while staying safe etc!

I have a garage roof with enough space (south facing) to put at least 4kw panels (want to put much more but depends on how much budget I have left). I already have tested and installed a low key DIY offgrid with a 2kw worth of panels (resting in garden) and a MPPT for a 24v 2x12v lead acid battery into an old 24v repurposed 1200kva UPS - works great for the garage. really simple to use and install. So this has made me want to go full scale!

My perfect installation would be the 4kw of panels (or more) on roof of garage installed by me with a 5-6kw (minimum) inverter which is hybrid feeding 17kw of storage into LiFePO4 52v batteries DIY (from Eve cells 3.2v 280ah), however I do not want any backfeeding but I will need grid support (as the UK in winter is tough to produce enough energy).
Battery building, I'm ok with, DIY construction and BMS look very safe and I can build this for around £2k.

My main question, I want in the Sumner to be completely offgrid and use the collected energy storage and the solar to provide enough energy. 5-6kw inverter at the moment is enough - would theoretically be enough to use all the equipment we have (with planning and understanding not everything can go on at same time etc). Winter and other times, I'd want to use the grid to top up the battery and use that at night (more than enough if topped up) - here there are some night time/ off peak cheap electricity usage rates. I'd want to use that with the battery storage/inverter etc.

What's the best practice for connecting into the consumer unit when intending offgrid installs. Would you use the existing Consumer unit (this is called a Distribution Board I think in other parts of the world) and then have an isolation switch at the tails which could divert power from grid only and then from Solar only. Same consumer unit but can ONLY be used for either solar or Grid (would be impossible to use both at same time - assume extra protection is put in place to allow for extra fuses if needed).

Also, I've seen that the hybrid inverters can plug into the exiting 'system' and allow for zero backfeeding by prioritising solar/battery and then if there is none (or not enough) use grid. However, how are they attached into the existing Consumer unit? - I've seen people just use a spare input (inside the CU) - how does that work when powering the house, does it backfeed the house through that connection? Then switch to grid only if needed... ? That part I find confusing when looking at installs. Again assume no shortcuts when it comes to wire gauge size and amp understanding through the circuits.

How exact are these hybrid Solar inverters do they need approval before connecting to the grid in ANY circumstance even if they have zero backfeeding (I can understand that they could potentially fail etc). Here, If they are attached to the grid extra certification and certified installers (to prevent any issues) may be needed, hence the isolation divertor switch, only allowing one direction and offgrid only. This installation would be an ongrid/offgrid but controlled by the inverter.

Or do people build a separate Consumer unit (DB) for the Solar install and connect this to existing installation - if so, how is that done and why would you duplicate?
Does anyone have any good photos of their CU to their Solar/Inverter/Battery - In the rest of the world, I think they use similar concepts to feed their house.

I appreciate a good solar electrician will know exactly but I wanted to understand the concept of how much of it is possible before handing off to an electrician.

Then the minefield of certification/approval here - how much of this can be signed off on DNO and approved - once over a certain size. Again anyone who can help someone in UK to get to a point where they can DIY up to the limit of what DIY is allowed.

Thanks for reading if you've got this far, appreciate any help or guidance!
I found this useful reading, there's a download link somewhere regarding G98 - G100 process and requirements.
 
Hi Good Solar People,

This is a UK installation, would be interested if people from all over could help out with some of my understanding as apart from certification, I think the concepts are the same.

First, I'm just trying to get my head around a lot of concepts and installs. Here in the UK, it's a minefield of installation issues if you attempt DIY. let's assume everything is approved at the end by an electricians at the end point, so as not to get stuck on the 'you're gonna die' if you continue.
I just want to see how much is possible and how much I can do by myself (with friends etc), keeping costs down while staying safe etc!

I have a garage roof with enough space (south facing) to put at least 4kw panels (want to put much more but depends on how much budget I have left). I already have tested and installed a low key DIY offgrid with a 2kw worth of panels (resting in garden) and a MPPT for a 24v 2x12v lead acid battery into an old 24v repurposed 1200kva UPS - works great for the garage. really simple to use and install. So this has made me want to go full scale!

My perfect installation would be the 4kw of panels (or more) on roof of garage installed by me with a 5-6kw (minimum) inverter which is hybrid feeding 17kw of storage into LiFePO4 52v batteries DIY (from Eve cells 3.2v 280ah), however I do not want any backfeeding but I will need grid support (as the UK in winter is tough to produce enough energy).
Battery building, I'm ok with, DIY construction and BMS look very safe and I can build this for around £2k.

My main question, I want in the Sumner to be completely offgrid and use the collected energy storage and the solar to provide enough energy. 5-6kw inverter at the moment is enough - would theoretically be enough to use all the equipment we have (with planning and understanding not everything can go on at same time etc). Winter and other times, I'd want to use the grid to top up the battery and use that at night (more than enough if topped up) - here there are some night time/ off peak cheap electricity usage rates. I'd want to use that with the battery storage/inverter etc.

What's the best practice for connecting into the consumer unit when intending offgrid installs. Would you use the existing Consumer unit (this is called a Distribution Board I think in other parts of the world) and then have an isolation switch at the tails which could divert power from grid only and then from Solar only. Same consumer unit but can ONLY be used for either solar or Grid (would be impossible to use both at same time - assume extra protection is put in place to allow for extra fuses if needed).

Also, I've seen that the hybrid inverters can plug into the exiting 'system' and allow for zero backfeeding by prioritising solar/battery and then if there is none (or not enough) use grid. However, how are they attached into the existing Consumer unit? - I've seen people just use a spare input (inside the CU) - how does that work when powering the house, does it backfeed the house through that connection? Then switch to grid only if needed... ? That part I find confusing when looking at installs. Again assume no shortcuts when it comes to wire gauge size and amp understanding through the circuits.

How exact are these hybrid Solar inverters do they need approval before connecting to the grid in ANY circumstance even if they have zero backfeeding (I can understand that they could potentially fail etc). Here, If they are attached to the grid extra certification and certified installers (to prevent any issues) may be needed, hence the isolation divertor switch, only allowing one direction and offgrid only. This installation would be an ongrid/offgrid but controlled by the inverter.

Or do people build a separate Consumer unit (DB) for the Solar install and connect this to existing installation - if so, how is that done and why would you duplicate?
Does anyone have any good photos of their CU to their Solar/Inverter/Battery - In the rest of the world, I think they use similar concepts to feed their house.

I appreciate a good solar electrician will know exactly but I wanted to understand the concept of how much of it is possible before handing off to an electrician.

Then the minefield of certification/approval here - how much of this can be signed off on DNO and approved - once over a certain size. Again anyone who can help someone in UK to get to a point where they can DIY up to the limit of what DIY is allowed.

Thanks for reading if you've got this far, appreciate any help or guidance!
I'd say you want an off-grid but with grid/utility backup type inverter, that way no feedback/export possible unless wired wrongly so no DNO required.
 
I'd say you want an off-grid but with grid/utility backup type inverter, that way no feedback/export possible unless wired wrongly so no DNO required.
Yeah totally, that's my backup plan - a full offgrid and that way, nothing to do with the grid. Winter here makes solar almost unusable, that's the main issue... but it wouldn't be hard to just switch between the two
 
Yeah totally, that's my backup plan - a full offgrid and that way, nothing to do with the grid. Winter here makes solar almost unusable, that's the main issue... but it wouldn't be hard to just switch between the two
Just be aware any grid connected or system that switches into your house wiring is islanding may require DNO permission.
 
Hi Good Solar People,

This is a UK installation, would be interested if people from all over could help out with some of my understanding as apart from certification, I think the concepts are the same.

First, I'm just trying to get my head around a lot of concepts and installs. Here in the UK, it's a minefield of installation issues if you attempt DIY. let's assume everything is approved at the end by an electricians at the end point, so as not to get stuck on the 'you're gonna die' if you continue.
I just want to see how much is possible and how much I can do by myself (with friends etc), keeping costs down while staying safe etc!

I have a garage roof with enough space (south facing) to put at least 4kw panels (want to put much more but depends on how much budget I have left). I already have tested and installed a low key DIY offgrid with a 2kw worth of panels (resting in garden) and a MPPT for a 24v 2x12v lead acid battery into an old 24v repurposed 1200kva UPS - works great for the garage. really simple to use and install. So this has made me want to go full scale!

My perfect installation would be the 4kw of panels (or more) on roof of garage installed by me with a 5-6kw (minimum) inverter which is hybrid feeding 17kw of storage into LiFePO4 52v batteries DIY (from Eve cells 3.2v 280ah), however I do not want any backfeeding but I will need grid support (as the UK in winter is tough to produce enough energy).
Battery building, I'm ok with, DIY construction and BMS look very safe and I can build this for around £2k.

My main question, I want in the Sumner to be completely offgrid and use the collected energy storage and the solar to provide enough energy. 5-6kw inverter at the moment is enough - would theoretically be enough to use all the equipment we have (with planning and understanding not everything can go on at same time etc). Winter and other times, I'd want to use the grid to top up the battery and use that at night (more than enough if topped up) - here there are some night time/ off peak cheap electricity usage rates. I'd want to use that with the battery storage/inverter etc.

What's the best practice for connecting into the consumer unit when intending offgrid installs. Would you use the existing Consumer unit (this is called a Distribution Board I think in other parts of the world) and then have an isolation switch at the tails which could divert power from grid only and then from Solar only. Same consumer unit but can ONLY be used for either solar or Grid (would be impossible to use both at same time - assume extra protection is put in place to allow for extra fuses if needed).

Also, I've seen that the hybrid inverters can plug into the exiting 'system' and allow for zero backfeeding by prioritising solar/battery and then if there is none (or not enough) use grid. However, how are they attached into the existing Consumer unit? - I've seen people just use a spare input (inside the CU) - how does that work when powering the house, does it backfeed the house through that connection? Then switch to grid only if needed... ? That part I find confusing when looking at installs. Again assume no shortcuts when it comes to wire gauge size and amp understanding through the circuits.

How exact are these hybrid Solar inverters do they need approval before connecting to the grid in ANY circumstance even if they have zero backfeeding (I can understand that they could potentially fail etc). Here, If they are attached to the grid extra certification and certified installers (to prevent any issues) may be needed, hence the isolation divertor switch, only allowing one direction and offgrid only. This installation would be an ongrid/offgrid but controlled by the inverter.

Or do people build a separate Consumer unit (DB) for the Solar install and connect this to existing installation - if so, how is that done and why would you duplicate?
Does anyone have any good photos of their CU to their Solar/Inverter/Battery - In the rest of the world, I think they use similar concepts to feed their house.

I appreciate a good solar electrician will know exactly but I wanted to understand the concept of how much of it is possible before handing off to an electrician.

Then the minefield of certification/approval here - how much of this can be signed off on DNO and approved - once over a certain size. Again anyone who can help someone in UK to get to a point where they can DIY up to the limit of what DIY is allowed.

Thanks for reading if you've got this far, appreciate any help or guidance!
Really you can’t diy any grid tied installation
 
Yeah totally, that's my backup plan - a full offgrid and that way, nothing to do with the grid. Winter here makes solar almost unusable, that's the main issue... but it wouldn't be hard to just switch between the two
Sounds like a good plan and will avoid any possible DNO requirements. Just make sure that if you are having a transfer to full grid for winter etc and that needs to completely bypass because the AC-out of your solar inverter could not cope due to demand being over the max amps. Then that must be a manual switchover so that the solar is then completely isolated.

What I'm planning is a separate consumer panel with just my solar circuits on that (with grid connected to AC-in but that it will be max 20amps so that I don't need to switch over if not enough solar/bat as the invertor will use grid backup from the AC-in so no manual transfer needed. Anything that could go over the max amps of the solar circuit will be on a separate grid only circuit e.g cooker etc.
 
Just had an electrician in to quote me for the opposite way 'round, but the principles will be the same. I have an existing 3.68kW system & hybrid inverter with a 3kW AC backup output (which is on all the time).

Most of the time, we want critical loads to feed from the existing DB, but when the grid goes down, we're asking him to do his magic so the critical loads switch over to using the AC backup separate output.

So it looks like you want the opposite scenario, but the ""logic" is similar.

Will post here one it's all done.

Re your panels: A combo of roof mounting & ground mounting will give you more winter power, if you have the space (there's a max land area for ground mounts in the UK, not sure what that is atm).

To give you some ideas:

February sunshine day on a 3.68kW system yields around 2 to 3 kWh.
Summer is 20kWh.
(for our setup at least)

Batteries: If you go down the DIY route, you'll save a ton. 16 x Eve 280Ah & a Seplos "box" with included BMS etc, shipped to the uk, will be around £2.5 to £2.8k depending on £/$

If you have the budget: go large on both solar & batteries.

My suggestion: if you have enough pv & batteries, you can probably run critical loads 24/7 from this system. If you're not experienced with house electrics, you could do all the solar side of things & then get a qual. electrician to do their magic and connect your inverter O/P to the "critical loads" DB.

Most of the following won't be relevant if your solar PV system's DB never links in with the main DB in any way.
G98: Max 3.68kW solar pv with or without DC batteries on a hybrid inverter (3.68kW or below)

G99: More than 3.68kW of panels or inveter with >3.68kW max theoretical output.

G99 comes in 2 flavours:

1) Fast track: Limited to 3.68kW/16A on a single phase. Commonly applied for when you add an AC coupled inverter to the mix (not my favourite approach)

2) Full: >3.68kW/16A per phase. Typically req'd when using a beefier hybrid inverter

G98: you inform the DNO
G99: you ask (ie apply to before install) the DNO

G100: a specification that requires any grid-tied inverter to shutdown within a small no. of milliseconds when the grid goes down.
 
G100: a specification that requires any grid-tied inverter to shutdown within a small no. of milliseconds when the grid goes down.

That last line is not quite correct... The requirement that requires any grid-tied inverter to shutdown within a small no. of milliseconds when the grid goes down is part of the requirement for G98 / G99 compliance.

G100 compliance is required if export power needs to be limited under a G99 installation. G100 defines how quickly an inverter restricts its output power, shuts down if the export power monitoring link fails etc.
 
Just had an electrician in to quote me for the opposite way 'round, but the principles will be the same. I have an existing 3.68kW system & hybrid inverter with a 3kW AC backup output (which is on all the time).

Most of the time, we want critical loads to feed from the existing DB, but when the grid goes down, we're asking him to do his magic so the critical loads switch over to using the AC backup separate output.

So it looks like you want the opposite scenario, but the ""logic" is similar.

Will post here one it's all done.

Re your panels: A combo of roof mounting & ground mounting will give you more winter power, if you have the space (there's a max land area for ground mounts in the UK, not sure what that is atm).

To give you some ideas:

February sunshine day on a 3.68kW system yields around 2 to 3 kWh.
Summer is 20kWh.
(for our setup at least)

Batteries: If you go down the DIY route, you'll save a ton. 16 x Eve 280Ah & a Seplos "box" with included BMS etc, shipped to the uk, will be around £2.5 to £2.8k depending on £/$

If you have the budget: go large on both solar & batteries.

My suggestion: if you have enough pv & batteries, you can probably run critical loads 24/7 from this system. If you're not experienced with house electrics, you could do all the solar side of things & then get a qual. electrician to do their magic and connect your inverter O/P to the "critical loads" DB.

Most of the following won't be relevant if your solar PV system's DB never links in with the main DB in any way.
G98: Max 3.68kW solar pv with or without DC batteries on a hybrid inverter (3.68kW or below)

G99: More than 3.68kW of panels or inveter with >3.68kW max theoretical output.

G99 comes in 2 flavours:

1) Fast track: Limited to 3.68kW/16A on a single phase. Commonly applied for when you add an AC coupled inverter to the mix (not my favourite approach)

2) Full: >3.68kW/16A per phase. Typically req'd when using a beefier hybrid inverter

G98: you inform the DNO
G99: you ask (ie apply to before install) the DNO

G100: a specification that requires any grid-tied inverter to shutdown within a small no. of milliseconds when the grid goes down.
If you install more then 3.68kWp. You must seek permission not just inform.
 
Hi Good Solar People,

This is a UK installation, would be interested if people from all over could help out with some of my understanding as apart from certification, I think the concepts are the same.

First, I'm just trying to get my head around a lot of concepts and installs. Here in the UK, it's a minefield of installation issues if you attempt DIY. let's assume everything is approved at the end by an electricians at the end point, so as not to get stuck on the 'you're gonna die' if you continue.
I just want to see how much is possible and how much I can do by myself (with friends etc), keeping costs down while staying safe etc!

I have a garage roof with enough space (south facing) to put at least 4kw panels (want to put much more but depends on how much budget I have left). I already have tested and installed a low key DIY offgrid with a 2kw worth of panels (resting in garden) and a MPPT for a 24v 2x12v lead acid battery into an old 24v repurposed 1200kva UPS - works great for the garage. really simple to use and install. So this has made me want to go full scale!

My perfect installation would be the 4kw of panels (or more) on roof of garage installed by me with a 5-6kw (minimum) inverter which is hybrid feeding 17kw of storage into LiFePO4 52v batteries DIY (from Eve cells 3.2v 280ah), however I do not want any backfeeding but I will need grid support (as the UK in winter is tough to produce enough energy).
Battery building, I'm ok with, DIY construction and BMS look very safe and I can build this for around £2k.

My main question, I want in the Sumner to be completely offgrid and use the collected energy storage and the solar to provide enough energy. 5-6kw inverter at the moment is enough - would theoretically be enough to use all the equipment we have (with planning and understanding not everything can go on at same time etc). Winter and other times, I'd want to use the grid to top up the battery and use that at night (more than enough if topped up) - here there are some night time/ off peak cheap electricity usage rates. I'd want to use that with the battery storage/inverter etc.

What's the best practice for connecting into the consumer unit when intending offgrid installs. Would you use the existing Consumer unit (this is called a Distribution Board I think in other parts of the world) and then have an isolation switch at the tails which could divert power from grid only and then from Solar only. Same consumer unit but can ONLY be used for either solar or Grid (would be impossible to use both at same time - assume extra protection is put in place to allow for extra fuses if needed).

Also, I've seen that the hybrid inverters can plug into the exiting 'system' and allow for zero backfeeding by prioritising solar/battery and then if there is none (or not enough) use grid. However, how are they attached into the existing Consumer unit? - I've seen people just use a spare input (inside the CU) - how does that work when powering the house, does it backfeed the house through that connection? Then switch to grid only if needed... ? That part I find confusing when looking at installs. Again assume no shortcuts when it comes to wire gauge size and amp understanding through the circuits.

How exact are these hybrid Solar inverters do they need approval before connecting to the grid in ANY circumstance even if they have zero backfeeding (I can understand that they could potentially fail etc). Here, If they are attached to the grid extra certification and certified installers (to prevent any issues) may be needed, hence the isolation divertor switch, only allowing one direction and offgrid only. This installation would be an ongrid/offgrid but controlled by the inverter.

Or do people build a separate Consumer unit (DB) for the Solar install and connect this to existing installation - if so, how is that done and why would you duplicate?
Does anyone have any good photos of their CU to their Solar/Inverter/Battery - In the rest of the world, I think they use similar concepts to feed their house.

I appreciate a good solar electrician will know exactly but I wanted to understand the concept of how much of it is possible before handing off to an electrician.

Then the minefield of certification/approval here - how much of this can be signed off on DNO and approved - once over a certain size. Again anyone who can help someone in UK to get to a point where they can DIY up to the limit of what DIY is allowed.

Thanks for reading if you've got this far, appreciate any help or guidance!
I have a solar setup with 3kw solar 48v 100amp battery on a hybrid all in one inverter which is connected as off grid setup. Also the hybrid inverter has an a option for on grid since I live in UK winter can produce less solar energy so I use grid power to charge battery. The inverter I use is 10.2kw Powmr. Hope this help
 
I have a solar setup with 3kw solar 48v 100amp battery on a hybrid all in one inverter which is connected as off grid setup. Also the hybrid inverter has an a option for on grid since I live in UK winter can produce less solar energy so I use grid power to charge battery. The inverter I use is 10.2kw Powmr. Hope this help

Hey I just searched up that hybrid inverter 10.2kw Powmr, where would you have purchased one from as can see the price of them are much more reasonable in comparison to other brands?

Would it have a auto changeover in the event of blackout/maintenance on the grid?
 
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