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Victron Energy Phoenix Inverter VE.Direct 12/1200Shutting down !!!!

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Urge38

New Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2023
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265
Location
London Uk
Hi Guys

So I have only just purchased a Victron Phoenix 12/1200 and have rigged it up for testing to a 100ah 12v LifePo4 battery,

I plugged in a hair dryer and switched it on to low and the Victron shuts down,

I have the VE blue tooth dongle and the app says overload,

So I set up a couple of meters, one attached to the battery to see it that was shutting down (the battery is new) and one to test the currant draw on the hairdryer,

the hair dryer plugged into house mains on low pulls 2.44a at 240v

the 1200 Victron should be able to handle 2.44amps

the battery stays switched on, no bms shutting it down, so why could the Victron be shutting down with overload????
 
Is the battery wiring thick enough? Wiring should be able to handle 80 to 100 amps, otherwise this tilt could occur due to voltage drop.

Only thing I can recommend is turning off eco mode or turning it on. How are the lights blinking and does that match an overload?

Do you have access to read this through ve direct? Mine has no Bluetooth but can be accessed through ve direct.

This is a 1200 va inverter, aboutn1000 watt constant.
 
I’d measure the voltage at the phonix terminals, see if the voltage is tanking. Should be >12v.

What battery is it? Can you post a link where you bought it from?
 
I had the exact same issue a while back. I had the dryer on lowest heat setting, well under Victron's watt rating, and with enough battery to support it. The inverter kept shutting down. I tested the dryer again with a piece of crap Black and Decker, 500w inverter and it ran the dryer on the same setting no issues. I LOVE Victron stuff. I own 6 or 7 pieces of their equipment. They perform great. But, I sent the inverter back and bought a different brand. From what I've read, this issues has to do with the type of load - resistive vs inductive.
 
Last edited:
battery cables are 300a rated, only one foot long, (its on a test bench)

with a meter at the battery cable in, on the victron, my voltage holds 13.4v all the time, no voltage drop not even when the inverter cuts out,

It is NOT in ego mode
 
Urge38 said:
battery cables are 300a rated, only one foot long, (its on a test bench)

with a meter at the battery cable in, on the victron, my voltage holds 13.4v all the time, no voltage drop not even when the inverter cuts out,

It is NOT in ego mode
Click to expand...
What gauge is this wire?
 
You draw a lot of power i think.
1000watts on 12 volt is 83a + 10% = 92a

You are overload the inverter if you use more than 1000 watts max by 25 Celsius
Or 900 watts by 40 Celsius

2200 watt short time for 10 sec .

Data sheet

Your hair dryer use 515 watts from the victron.
So it have to run.

www.e-switch.com

Wat zijn inductieve en resistieve belastingen?

Wat zijn inductieve en ohmse belastingen en hoe verschillen ze? We kijken naar stroom, spanning en waarvoor verschillende belastingen worden gebruikt.
www.e-switch.com www.e-switch.com


For the rest i have the victron 12/1200ve.
I use it 24/7 a day .
And my vacuum cleaner 1000 watt from the brand Kärcher work just fine with it
 

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Suijkerbuijk said:
You draw a lot of power i think.
1000watts on 12 volt is 83a + 10% = 92a

You are overload the inverter if you use more than 1000 watts max by 25 Celsius
Or 900 watts by 40 Celsius

2200 watt short time for 10 sec .

Data sheet
Click to expand...
88amps at maximum, thats around 4.5amp at 230v

the hair dryer is 2.4amps
 
Suijkerbuijk said:
Wat is the brand and type nr of the hair dryer ?
Click to expand...
some old thing I found at my fathers house

what is funny is I am bald LOL LOL

having just bought the inverter, I wanted to be sure it was working ok.

seems some hair dryers are the problem, ish, but I understand it better now


Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered · Apr 25 2024 at 7:05 AM
The way a 1500W resistive element appears to draws 150W is by cutting into the sine wave to only draw 1500W for 1/10th of the cycle.

It's still drawing 125A at 12V in huge spike for a fraction of a second (over and over) - that appears to the inverter like a large surge load.
There aren't different resistance coils inside the hair drier for each power setting. Just a single 1500W element, and then a switching circuit that cuts the power in and out. 1/10th of the cycle for 150 W, 1/2 cycle for 750W, etc
The way to measure this is with a high frequency oscilloscope. Multimeters and the built in measurement of the inverter are not fast enough to see high currents for a fraction of a second (they will show the average over a cycle, or even multiple cycles, which are happening 50 times per second).
The overload circuit is fast enough though, which is what you're seeing.
For this kind of the load the best thing to do is to get a 12V DC hair dryer (intended for RV use) and bypass the inverter and just run it off the DC bus from the battery.
 
Urge38 said:
some old thing I found at my fathers house

what is funny is I am bald LOL LOL

having just bought the inverter, I wanted to be sure it was working ok.

seems some hair dryers are the problem, ish, but I understand it better now

Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered · Apr 25 2024 at 7:05 AM
The way a 1500W resistive element appears to draws 150W is by cutting into the sine wave to only draw 1500W for 1/10th of the cycle.

It's still drawing 125A at 12V in huge spike for a fraction of a second (over and over) - that appears to the inverter like a large surge load.
There aren't different resistance coils inside the hair drier for each power setting. Just a single 1500W element, and then a switching circuit that cuts the power in and out. 1/10th of the cycle for 150 W, 1/2 cycle for 750W, etc
The way to measure this is with a high frequency oscilloscope. Multimeters and the built in measurement of the inverter are not fast enough to see high currents for a fraction of a second (they will show the average over a cycle, or even multiple cycles, which are happening 50 times per second).
The overload circuit is fast enough though, which is what you're seeing.
For this kind of the load the best thing to do is to get a 12V DC hair dryer (intended for RV use) and bypass the inverter and just run it off the DC bus from the battery.
Click to expand...


Aha i see.
So the hair dryer have a fast interval what we not see but the inverter do and its almost like a full pull out of the inverter.

Humm

So a modified Inverter will not have this problem than .
Its have not a sinus wave .
Its a mosfet that try to be a sinus wave .
 
Suijkerbuijk said:
Aha i see.
So the hair dryer have a fast interval what we not see but the inverter do and its almost like a full pull out of the inverter.

Humm
Click to expand...
Thats what Victron guys want us to believe, how true that is I cant say,

My Victron did power a 700w heater with no problem,

I simply have not done enough reading on this subject to say whats going on, but Victron guy does make sence
 
Urge38 said:
Hi Guys

So I have only just purchased a Victron Phoenix 12/1200 and have rigged it up for testing to a 100ah 12v LifePo4 battery,

I plugged in a hair dryer and switched it on to low and the Victron shuts down,

I have the VE blue tooth dongle and the app says overload,

So I set up a couple of meters, one attached to the battery to see it that was shutting down (the battery is new) and one to test the currant draw on the hairdryer,

the hair dryer plugged into house mains on low pulls 2.44a at 240v

the 1200 Victron should be able to handle 2.44amps

the battery stays switched on, no bms shutting it down, so why could the Victron be shutting down with overload????
Click to expand...
The 1200VA rating of that is actually 960W, so at 12V, it should be able to handle 80A
 
Urge38 said:
Thats what Victron guys want us to believe, how true that is I cant say,

My Victron did power a 700w heater with no problem,

I simply have not done enough reading on this subject to say whats going on, but Victron guy does make sence
Click to expand...

Well if i use my microwave that use 1245 watts (700watt model)
If i use 700watt function it pull 1245watt
If i use 500 watt fuction it still pull 1245watt but now with a longer interface from on and of .

So i think its correct.
 
Urge38 said:
some old thing I found at my fathers house

what is funny is I am bald LOL LOL

having just bought the inverter, I wanted to be sure it was working ok.

seems some hair dryers are the problem, ish, but I understand it better now

Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered · Apr 25 2024 at 7:05 AM
The way a 1500W resistive element appears to draws 150W is by cutting into the sine wave to only draw 1500W for 1/10th of the cycle.

It's still drawing 125A at 12V in huge spike for a fraction of a second (over and over) - that appears to the inverter like a large surge load.
There aren't different resistance coils inside the hair drier for each power setting. Just a single 1500W element, and then a switching circuit that cuts the power in and out. 1/10th of the cycle for 150 W, 1/2 cycle for 750W, etc
The way to measure this is with a high frequency oscilloscope. Multimeters and the built in measurement of the inverter are not fast enough to see high currents for a fraction of a second (they will show the average over a cycle, or even multiple cycles, which are happening 50 times per second).
The overload circuit is fast enough though, which is what you're seeing.
For this kind of the load the best thing to do is to get a 12V DC hair dryer (intended for RV use) and bypass the inverter and just run it off the DC bus from the battery.
Click to expand...
What I found that was really confusing though, was that smaller and cheaper inverters (Xantrex, Aims, B + D) would run the hair dryer on the lower setting! So, apparently there may be something in the design of the smaller Victrons that cause this issue.
 
Last edited:
MiSh said:
What I found that was really confusing though, was that smaller and cheaper inverters would run the hair dryer on the lower setting! So, apparently there may be something in the design of the smaller Victrons that cause this issue.
Click to expand...
Look wat for inverter that is
A full sinus model or modify sinus
Victron are full sinus models .
A modify sinus try to be a sinus but you can not use those on laptop charger it burn the charger
A modify sinus go on and off and make that way a sinus effect.

More info to read for you.

naturesgenerator.com

PURE SINE WAVE VS MODIFIED SINE WAVE INVERTERS

The demand for solar power energy is continuously rising for so many obvious reasons: it’s natural, clean, renewable, and practically free. However, with all the available options in the market, it is really important to do some research before purchasing your own Solar Panel System. More often...
naturesgenerator.com naturesgenerator.com
 
MiSh said:
What I found that was really confusing though, was that smaller and cheaper inverters (Xantrex, Aims, B + D) would run the hair dryer on the lower setting! So, apparently there may be something in the design of the smaller Victrons that cause this issue.
Click to expand...
TBH, the victron is acting like a much cleaver brain and seeing it stright, other inverters dont care, is not a good thing.

from what ive now read and understand, I am happy enough that the Victron protected its self
 
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