Victron Smart Battery Protect to Inverter?

[Nobadays]

I am trying to figure out how to use the Victron 12/24-220 SBP with my Giandel 2000/4000 PSW inverter that runs my off-grid shop. Before the flames, I know it says, "Do not hook directly to a device with capacitors, such as an inverter." That said, I saw in one of Will's videos him doing this very thing, so I tried it.

If the capacitors are already charged, no problem, except the SBP won't supply enough power (amps? voltage?, I see the voltage readout on the inverter drop to 19v when I switch on the shopvac.) to run a large motor like a vacuum or bench grinder. These type of draws are fine when the inverter is wired direct to the battery bank (4 × 235ah Vmax 6v, @ 24v), protected by a 150a fuse. The SBP 220 is rated at 220a continuous and 600a surge.

My guess is high draws through the SBP are causing it to momentarily drop below LBC setting. My reasoning is that if the capacitors on the inverter are not charged prior to bringing the SBP into the loop, the inverter will try to start then beep and show lo bat, but, if I leave it on within 10-15 seconds it will fire up momentarily before beeping again and showing lo Bat. This will continue for a continue with the lo bat intervals getting shorter and shorter until the inverter is happy with the supplied power.... presumably when the capacitors have fully charged.

The inverter does have an on/off remote port but I'm not smart enough to know how to use the SBP to turn the swing and on. The switch obviously can't handle the 24v so some kind of relay would have to be involved.

Any help appreciated, specific on exactly how to do this... HOW YOU ACCOMPLISHED this would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!

THANKS!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Will has edited most videos to indicate that he was using it incorrectly.

If it's an on/off signalling port, it's likely only looking for open circuit or closed circuit. It's function should be documented in the manual.

The BP must NOT be in the primary current path of the inverter. It is also unidirectional. It must not be installed in a location where it may experience both charge and discharge.

Victron will not honor warranty for BP's abused by installation in either scenario.

 

[Nobadays]

Thank you for your reply. You are right, I guess I knew hooking it directly to the inverter is not a proper use. Thanks for the wiring diagrams, but I have no DC loads so this will not solve my issue. We are totally off-grid and I use this small system to run my shop 120v needs. We do not run any 12/24v DC loads. I need the SBP to cut power to the inverter, or turn it on and off in low battery events. I'm just not well versed in how to use relays to accomplish that. A wiring diagram and a specific relay that will work would be fantastic! Oh.... my Giandel did not come with anything more than a "quick start" booklet in Chinglish.

The problem I'm trying to solve is low voltage caused by snow build-up in the winter when we are not here (snowbird to AZ for 3 months each winter). Last winter I left the system on to power Starlink and a security camera. Unfortunately snow build-up from 4 straight days of storms prevented charging and between Starlink and inverter draw my batteries got drained pretty badly. Unfortunately the Giandel inverter is preset for a LBC at 19v.... far too low and this cannot be changed. My Epever SCC was on auto detect so at 19v it then assumed my system was 12v (this since corrected by setting it to 24v, auto detect off) so it was signaling over charge and wouldn't bring the batteries back up. Friends cleaned the panels when they could get out and get around and reset the SCC to 24v and got us back up but by this time the FLA batteries were damaged. I was able to equalize a couple of times and got them, kind of sort of back, just not holding a charge as they did prior. I now have 4 new AGM batteries hooked up and I want to keep these alive!

Outside of buying a new inverter that has an adjustable LBC, does anyone of a, maybe stand alone LBC that will pair with an inverter? Or what relay to use, how to use it to turn the inverter off and on?

Thanks!

 

[mikefitz]

Victron 12/24-220 SBP with my Giandel 2000/4000 PSW inverter

All the Victron battery protect units have auxiliary contactics that could be used to control the inverters remote switching option.
Alternatively rather than using voltage you could use SOC by using the auxiliary relay in the Victron BMV 712 battery monitor.

 

[Nobadays]

All the Victron battery protect units have auxiliary contactics that could be used to control the inverters remote switching option.

This!

I have the manual but I do not see where it indicates if/how this is done. None of the schematics show this. I see a remote switching option to turn the SBP on and off. The other pins seem to be for manual programming.

Could you point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

 

[mikefitz]

Could you point me in the right direction

Having used this technique with Victron inverters I assumed the remote option for the Giandel operated in a similar way. However this seems more comple with the Giandel.

Giandel Inverter remote control

Has anyone gotten their Giandel Inverter to remotely switch with a logic level, i.e., on/off? The remote control panel that comes with it is a "I'll think about it" button, meaning it uses a microcontroller to take a pulse from the switch and power down. That makes it extremely difficult to...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Nobadays]

Thanks for this! I was just getting online to see if I could find a manual of some sort for the Giandel inverter. Looks like my options just got sliced down to 1, get an inverter that has programmable settings. The Schneider we use for our home does, and I know Victron, and I believe MagnaSine do as well. Probably all of the tier 1 products. This is for powering my shop so I've went cheap here.

Thank for this information!

 

[MURPH-COMPLEX SYSTEMS]

I saw a video where the victron rep. Connected the black ring terminal to thr battery and the output to the inverter and programmed it with the remote... I had 2 lifep04 batts. In parallel and used mine in a similar connection method where I was using a 12v system and had the black ring terminal connected to one neg. Of one battery and the negative of a 12v truck heater that runs at 30A and then connected the in and out corresponding to the heater and fuse pos. Input and a out to the battery that the sbp neg. Was connected to. Then used the app to set the low voltage..it worked like a pro..

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I saw a video where the victron rep. Connected the black ring terminal to thr battery and the output to the inverter and programmed it with the remote... I had 2 lifep04 batts. In parallel and used mine in a similar connection method where I was using a 12v system and had the black ring terminal connected to one neg. Of one battery and the negative of a 12v truck heater that runs at 30A and then connected the in and out corresponding to the heater and fuse pos. Input and a out to the battery that the sbp neg. Was connected to. Then used the app to set the low voltage..it worked like a pro..

Link to video please.

How many times did the BP activate to protect your system?

Lastly, are you really going to argue with Victron when they tell you not to use them this way?

 

[MURPH-COMPLEX SYSTEMS]

Only once when the battery voltage got to the voltage I set for it to stop at other than that I just turned it off remotely...I was just going by what the guy wearing the blue shirt saying he was from victron did..in relay mode.. are they not meant to disconnect a load at a preset voltage? I thought that's exactly what it was for even the guy from Pike said it told me it was fine as long SD I used s fuse.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Only once when the battery voltage got to the voltage I set for it to stop at other than that I just turned it off remotely...I was just going by what the guy wearing the blue shirt saying he was from victron did..in relay mode.. are they not meant to disconnect a load at a preset voltage? I thought that's exactly what it was for even the guy from Pike said it told me it was fine as long SD I used s fuse.

Relay mode is completely different than using it to disconnect an inverter directly. Relay mode opens or closes a circuit to a remote control relay on the device that shuts the device down.

It can be used to connect/disconnect pure DC non-inverter loads.



As you can see above on the left side, the power to the inverter is going through the BP. On the right side, the inverter power bypasses the BP. The BP disconnects the DC loads, and it sends a signal to the inverter to shut off.

 

[MURPH-COMPLEX SYSTEMS]

I was using relay for the resistive heater... but I'm using a 100A sbp for a 100A inverter.. are you saying. Would the bigger model be better...?

 

[MURPH-COMPLEX SYSTEMS]

What do you recommend I do?

 

[MURPH-COMPLEX SYSTEMS]

I'm not using a victron inverter but a vevor 2500W 24V dc-ac pure sine wave.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I was using relay for the resistive heater... but I'm using a 100A sbp for a 100A inverter.. are you saying.

If the heater was NOT being powered by an inverter, that's fine. If it was powered by an inverter, nope.

Would the bigger model be better...?

No. BP are designed only to disconnect pure DC loads.

What do you recommend I do?

Get a good inverter that allows you to program the cut-off voltage or one that has a control relay.

I'm not using a victron inverter but a vevor 2500W 24V dc-ac pure sine wave.

Does it have a control relay - a means of turning it on/off remotely?

 

[MURPH-COMPLEX SYSTEMS]

Only by way of the included rj12 or rs 232 wired remote..

 

[MURPH-COMPLEX SYSTEMS]

Iam actually trying to find a nicer inverter with more output maybe one with split, phase..but I suppose I will need to go to 48V for that? Unless you know or a good off grid inverter like that, But is still 24V?