Want to get my feet wet and try my first system build (analysis paralysis)

[Jolly Wrenchers]

I’ve been a lurker on here for a bit now and have totally immersed myself in trying to learn more about this energy source and how I can make use of it. That being said, I really want to build my first system, but keep getting hung up on size, efficiency, cost etc.. So far I’m not able to settle on supplier(s), array wattage/voltage, battery voltage/capacity, all-in-one style inverters or separate components.

I was hoping to build a small (approximately 2000W) system first to get to know the technology and build some relationships and resources along the way. With better knowledge in hand I’d then build a larger system to power perhaps a light usage shop that would have occasional high load (240V Mig Welder), or maybe a whole home system to take it off grid (home is in a very remote area).

My challenge seems to be this first step, the smaller wattage (and voltage) system. Would I have less idle power draw on separate components? Build batteries or buy complete? I like the Victron components, but am having some difficulty understanding their verbiage compared to others.

I’m sure others have been down this path, what recommendations would you have for some one who really wants to understand the entire system, and has some time and money to invest? I’m a “hands on” person so reading and watch video’s only take me so far. I would call myself a more knowledgeable beginner on the electrical comprehension side. I’ve got a lot of low voltage DC (automotive) experience and a fair amount of 110/120 experience, less on split phase 240V.

Where to start? I don’t want to waste money re-inventing the wheel when possible.

Appreciate any thoughts.

 

[alfsauve]

Jolly,

I too am about to jump in. I ran numbers for the past couple of months and decided I couldn't get enough payback on a large system, mainly because of my location and lack of southern exposure roof. I've decided to put together a small backup system just to run the freezer for a day in the event of a power outage. The longest we've ever had was 9 hours, so adding a day to the life of the frozen food would be worth a small system, plus I'm a tinkerer.

I've decided to go with a single 12v panel, probably portable, and a 12V-12V charger. Since this system isn't going to deep discharge except in a power outage, I don't think LiFePo batteries are worth it just for a once a year power outage. I'm going with a Gel cell. Complete the system with a 3,000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter. My Solar Cell won't be permanently mounted but just on a stand sitting outside the patio. This also allows me to wrap this all up and take it with me to go camping, ham radio field day or bugging out.

Not sure I'm going all Renogy for this, but here's a sample of what I might buy from them.

100W 12V Monocrystalline compact Panel $105
Adventurer PWM Flush Mount Charge Controller $70
12V 100Ah Gel Battery $300
3,000W Pure sine wave inverter $500

 

[Danke]

If you can afford it, maybe oversize the inverter for future expansion. Or ones that can be easily paralleled to add future capacity.

 

[SilverbackMP]

I am far from an expert, but if you are wanting to go offgrid and/or run power loads, I would look at SMA, Outback (a Trace child), Schneider (old Trace), and perhaps Victron. They all make systems designed for offgrid, designed to last, and designed (if you buy the right stuff to start out) to be expandable.

I don't think I'd go with any microinverter type of system or any high frequency cheap Chinesium stuff. People say it's cheap enough to have spares and replace in five years. I don't really want to tinker with my system more than I have to. I just want it to work and handle anything I throw at it (within reason).

 

[32 volt boater]

Playing with electricity with wet feet is not the best idea.

 

[Danke]

Playing with electricity with wet feet is not the best idea.

 

[Rocketman]

The problem with a “starter” system is they are usually 12v. But when you go with a full system you usually want that at 48v.

So you “toss” the inverter and the SCC (solar charge controller) if it is not 48v compatible. That ends up being expensive.

Start with what you will end up with - 48v.

This example is using Victron stuff - because that is what I know & use.

For now:
Solar panels- ones you can find more of for when you want to expand. Big ones are cheaper- check out Craig’s list or used ones.

Victron mppt 150/__ (pick your size 35, 45)

Multiplus 48/3000 (or 5000). This will get you 120v. When you want 240v add one more in parallel. If you need more power add two more. (You can link like 6 of these units). Find out how many amps your welder needs before buying stuff.

Start designing your dream system- then when you find the cost, you can design the “minimum” system, then go from there.

Good Luck!

PS Yes, I know Victron is more expensive and some people don’t see the value in tier 1 equipment that’s apps get continuous updated.

 

[32 volt boater]

I went with Outback Power because they made a 32 volt inverter for older boats with that system and I got their Flex Max 80 Charge controller. Good stuff.

If I was doing land based I would check out www.midnitesolar.com/index.php

They really seem to design everything to make DIY solar a fun hobby as opposed to just all like industrial.

The problem with a “starter” system is they are usually 12v. But when you go with a full system you usually want that at 48v.

You want adjustable. The Flex Max 80 supports battery voltages from 12 to 60VDC and has the ability to accept a higher voltage solar array to recharge a lower voltage battery bank.

Personally I like 12 volts. The only downside is "big wires", and I say who cares. I can buy 12 volt TVs , refrigerator/freezer fans A/C units of course lights not even mess with inverters at all.

And have wet feet no shock risk.

 

[Mattb4]

...

Where to start? I don’t want to waste money re-inventing the wheel when possible.

Appreciate any thoughts.

Some money will be wasted in the process. Simply chock it up as part of the learning experience. Since you want to start at around a 2000w panel system I would say that is up from experimentation level into productive load carrying level. You can figure that you will have about 5-9kwh per day of available power.

The one thing I do not see mentioned by you is do you intend to grid tie, Grid tie with battery backup, use grid as assist with battery, or go with a totally off grid setup. Each of these will involve a different strategy for how you set up your system.

ETA: Something I forgot is you might live in one of those places where you can not do anything without approval by your local/State authorities. Keep it in mind when doing your planning.

 

[Risky Rob]

I'm the exception. I built a small 800W 24V system, with 4000 W of battery storage. I tested it thoroughly by running off grid during the California Flex Alerts. Grid power is about 20¢ a kilowatt so I use that when I can, but have an emergency option.

 

[Jolly Wrenchers]

All great thoughts thank-you for sharing! What I didn’t mention is we have an old barn we’re going to restore that I would likely end up throwing this “starter” kit at once I have the bigger kit operational, so I do have use for more than one system (it isn’t close enough to either the shop or the house to be able to be tied into them).

We’re buying the small (40 acre) ranch/farm I grew up on and the barn will need lights and during the cold weather perhaps a heat lamp or two, possibly a bucket heater to keep the water thawed out for pigs or chickens. In thinking about the heat, I’m already thinking a 12v system is out, and may try a small 24V system. Winter average hours of sunlight here are about 2 hours, not a lot to work with. The barn is also up against a mountain that will shade it more than the house or shop. I can see having to charge batteries elsewhere and bring them to it during the winter. In the summer it would only be running lights occasionally.

3 heat sources, 500W each, 1500/hr.. there is almost no feasible way to put enough battery power there for that without a huge array. I image this is a common issue, needing more power at the same time there is less available sunlight to use.

May have to reconsider and just run a powerline up to the shop from the grid power at the house. Won’t be cheap, but probably a lot cheaper than solar.

The shop has power run to it that is turned off now, maybe I take this smaller system and just pull lighting and networking off of the grid and just use grid for air compressor and welder. It just stinks to have to pay for another meter every month when it will seldom be needed.

That leaves still wanting to power whatever I can at the house through solar once I have a better idea haw to make that happen. Ideally I’d like to get power independent if possible. Both the house and shop are well positioned to capture what is available in our area, but with it being 2 hrs. in the dead of winter it isn’t a lot.

 

[SilverbackMP]

All great thoughts thank-you for sharing! What I didn’t mention is we have an old barn we’re going to restore that I would likely end up throwing this “starter” kit at once I have the bigger kit operational, so I do have use for more than one system (it isn’t close enough to either the shop or the house to be able to be tied into them).

We’re buying the small (40 acre) ranch/farm I grew up on and the barn will need lights and during the cold weather perhaps a heat lamp or two, possibly a bucket heater to keep the water thawed out for pigs or chickens. In thinking about the heat, I’m already thinking a 12v system is out, and may try a small 24V system. Winter average hours of sunlight here are about 2 hours, not a lot to work with. The barn is also up against a mountain that will shade it more than the house or shop. I can see having to charge batteries elsewhere and bring them to it during the winter. In the summer it would only be running lights occasionally.

3 heat sources, 500W each, 1500/hr.. there is almost no feasible way to put enough battery power there for that without a huge array. I image this is a common issue, needing more power at the same time there is less available sunlight to use.

May have to reconsider and just run a powerline up to the shop from the grid power at the house. Won’t be cheap, but probably a lot cheaper than solar.

The shop has power run to it that is turned off now, maybe I take this smaller system and just pull lighting and networking off of the grid and just use grid for air compressor and welder. It just stinks to have to pay for another meter every month when it will seldom be needed.

That leaves still wanting to power whatever I can at the house through solar once I have a better idea haw to make that happen. Ideally I’d like to get power independent if possible. Both the house and shop are well positioned to capture what is available in our area, but with it being 2 hrs. in the dead of winter it isn’t a lot.

The absolute worst way to heat when running offgrid solar is with electrical resistance. I would consider using the batteries and electricity to facilitate some other form of heat...heat pump (still quite a bit required), diesel, propane, outdoor wood furnace, etc.

 

[Jolly Wrenchers]

The absolute worst way to heat when running offgrid solar is with electrical resistance. I would consider using the batteries and electricity to facilitate some other form of heat...heat pump (still quite a bit required), diesel, propane, outdoor wood furnace, etc.

Agreed, just trying to figure out how to be as independent as possible because it is such a remote location. Most likely will have to look at the wood burning options, home and shop heat will likely come from that resource, what’s one more location ?. It would be much easier if the buildings weren’t so far away from each other. There is an endless supply of wood onsite, but that would be a lot of work every year….