Washer/Dryer, Dishwasher, and A/C!?

[Doggydogworld]

This is for a summer, second home used almost exclusively on weekends. Figure 20-30 loads of laundry a year. My concern is more running out of battery capacity than the cost of propane, which I can't see being that much when only being used for the dryer, stove, and possibly hot water heater. Maybe I'm mistaken?

That's the right way to look at it. If you use the house 2-3 days for 20 weekends a year that's ~50 days. A "50 day" solar/battery system costs the same as a 365 day system, but propane cost is 85% less. The normal "payoff math" some are using here does not apply.

Before buying a bunch of panels, batteries and inverters you need to know how much air conditioning you need. Pros use "Manual J" calculations for this. I just looked up Block Island weather as an example (may not match your island). A well built house doesn't really need A/C at all there, but it could increase comfort by knocking down the humidity. Sealing against leaks and running the A/C only in daylight hours could work very well. You might need more panels, but they're cheap.

Other options -- run a larger mini-split unit in the main part of the house during the day then turn it off and run little window units or mini-splits off battery in the bedrooms at night. Or put A/C everywhere and run it off panels in the day and generator a few hours after sunset. Depending on model, location and shed design a generator could be quieter than the A/C units. Propane a few hours a day for ~30 days (don't need A/C in April or October) could be a lot less expensive than 16 more Battleborns. And batteries could still run low if it's really cloudy and humid.

 

[B-Mod]

How about this for a washer dryer combo?Runs off of 120v. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/ge-pro...cb261291fc081d5c53e07642754536fb&gclsrc=3p.ds

If anyone has questions on this unit I have one I bought a few weeks ago. Works great, no venting, 120v.

 

[DrZ123]

That's the right way to look at it. If you use the house 2-3 days for 20 weekends a year that's ~50 days. A "50 day" solar/battery system costs the same as a 365 day system, but propane cost is 85% less. The normal "payoff math" some are using here does not apply.

Before buying a bunch of panels, batteries and inverters you need to know how much air conditioning you need. Pros use "Manual J" calculations for this. I just looked up Block Island weather as an example (may not match your island). A well built house doesn't really need A/C at all there, but it could increase comfort by knocking down the humidity. Sealing against leaks and running the A/C only in daylight hours could work very well. You might need more panels, but they're cheap.

Other options -- run a larger mini-split unit in the main part of the house during the day then turn it off and run little window units or mini-splits off battery in the bedrooms at night. Or put A/C everywhere and run it off panels in the day and generator a few hours after sunset. Depending on model, location and shed design a generator could be quieter than the A/C units. Propane a few hours a day for ~30 days (don't need A/C in April or October) could be a lot less expensive than 16 more Battleborns. And batteries could still run low if it's really cloudy and humid.

My thoughts were either a single unit, 4 zone split, like 12k, 7k, 7k, 7k BTU approx, or a few individual units. Have to decide how much air is really needed, which may mean the first month of next summer seeing how hot it gets. Climate is similar to Block Island. Houses have no insulation, and I have been to block Island in a house with no AC on those hot, 90+ deg summer days and it can be quite spicy. Again this is more for the mrs!

As for the propane dryer, I am feeling that as well. Payoff wise I am not sure it makes sense to do electric if I have to expand the systme for that.

It seems like more/better panels may be the solution as there doesn't seem to be enough sunlight with the current panels to keep the system fully charged even at the current low loads.

 

[DrZ123]

If anyone has questions on this unit I have one I bought a few weeks ago. Works great, no venting, 120v.

How much power does it consume to wash and dry a load?

 

[Quattrohead]

If anyone has questions on this unit I have one I bought a few weeks ago. Works great, no venting, 120v.

How about a write up for it ? I am considering one for the new house but have concerns about cycle times verses convenience.

 

[B-Mod]

How much power does it consume to wash and dry a load?

1.14 to 1.5 KWH, these are full loads set for extra dry.

 

[Quattrohead]

My thoughts were either a single unit, 4 zone split, like 12k, 7k, 7k, 7k BTU approx, or a few individual units.

I would go individual if you don't mind 4 outside units....you could stack pairs together !!!!
The cheap $600ish units on the rain forest work fine. Costway/Glacer and Della are the exact same units.

 

[B-Mod]

How about a write up for it ? I am considering one for the new house but have concerns about cycle times verses convenience.

I don't really do write ups, but will answer questions. So best part for us is you can start it on a timer, or remote start it from your phone. So excess power, start it and it will wash and dry while we are at work. Come home and laundry done. It does take longer to do a load, but if you are using it like above, it doesn't matter. If you do laundry day, and need to do many loads, then it is for sure slower, but remember this is only using 120v power, no 3 to 5 kw draw of a electric dryer. Peak draw drying is 1200 watts, and that was only for a few minutes, most of the time it is 800 to 1000 watts.

 

[DrZ123]

I would go individual if you don't mind 4 outside units....you could stack pairs together !!!!
The cheap $600ish units on the rain forest work fine. Costway/Glacer and Della are the exact same units.

Probably a good idea. From what I have heard, there are inverter ones that should be more efficient. I may do a big unit for the living/dining/kitchen area, like a single 12k unit, and see how that does with just fans or small window units in the bedrooms. Then see power consumption etc, and go from there.

 

[Johneb]

I would go individual if you don't mind 4 outside units....you could stack pairs together !!!!
The cheap $600ish units on the rain forest work fine. Costway/Glacer and Della are the exact same units.

Individual allows you to run only the units you want cooling/heating. With one main compressor it is running all the time for even just one unit.

 

[DrZ123]

Xxx

 

[DrZ123]

How is it that a 12v 100ah Battleborn is $700 but a 48v 100ah rack battery like EG4 is $1500? Shouldn't the 48v be approximately 4x the price?

 

[timselectric]

How is it that a 12v 100ah Battleborn is $700 but a 48v 100ah rack battery like EG4 is $1500? Shouldn't the 48v be approximately 4x the price?

Battle born think very highly of themselves.

 

[DrZ123]

Would it be bad form to have the 16x Battleborn batteries into one inverter, and then say 4x 48v rack batteries going into another Victron inverter and have them linked together?

Mix and match?

 

[timselectric]

Would it be bad form to have the 16x Battleborn batteries into one inverter, and then say 4x 48v rack batteries going into another Victron inverter and have them linked together?

Mix and match?

It depends on if the inverters can be linked and connected to different battery banks.
Most can not.

 

[DrZ123]

It depends on if the inverters can be linked and connected to different battery banks.
Most can not.

I currently have the Victron Quattro 48volt | 5000 watt | 70 amp charger and inverter.

Would likely just get another of the same for compatibility.

The only way to run the system like that would be to use the exact same batteries as I currently have (Battleborn 12v)? Would the batteries be all connected or as two seperate banks?

 

[timselectric]

I currently have the Victron Quattro 48volt | 5000 watt | 70 amp charger and inverter.

Would likely just get another of the same for compatibility.

The only way to run the system like that would be to use the exact same batteries as I currently have (Battleborn 12v)? Would the batteries be all connected or as two seperate banks?

Mixing batteries in a single bank isn't a problem. As long as they share the same chemistry and nominal voltage.

 

[DrZ123]

Mixing batteries in a single bank isn't a problem. As long as they share the same chemistry and nominal voltage.

So if I doubled my batteries, and want more output so a second inverter, would series all the batteries or have two seperate banks?

 

[timselectric]

So if I doubled my batteries, and want more output so a second inverter, would series all the batteries or have two seperate banks?

Not separate.
One bank.

 

[DrZ123]

Not separate.
One bank.

Ok cool.

What is the need for 2 inverters then? Also, is it auto to get 48v server rack batteries or more Battleborns is a reasonable (yet pricier) option?

 

[timselectric]

What is the need for 2 inverters then?

No idea.

Also, is it auto to get 48v server rack batteries or more Battleborns is a reasonable (yet pricier) option?

I would avoid batteries in series, as you proceed.

 

[DrZ123]

No idea.

I would avoid batteries in series, as you proceed.

Why?

 

[timselectric]

Why?

They drift apart and require balancing from time to time. One of the biggest benefits of LiFePO4's is zero maintenance. Putting them in series creates maintenance.

 

[DrZ123]

They drift apart and require balancing from time to time. One of the biggest benefits of LiFePO4's is zero maintenance. Putting them in series creates maintenance.

I did order battery balancers for the BB I already have. That should eliminate the balancing right? But yes with the 48v batteries it seems like not worth something going wrong by running in series.

Is EG4 the way to go?

 

[Rocketman]

One item you may to consider adding is a busbar for the batteries - it looks like you kinda have one…

The Victron PowerIn is a big bus bar that will make connecting and disconnecting batteries easy (for maintenance), also you can put several together. And it would be easier to add the power from a rack mount right to that spot.

You probably want to make one BIG battery (w/16 Battleborns and a ___rack mounts).

Be sure and read the owners manual for the Victron Multiplus that you have. Some of your questions are answered in it. Also read Victron’s “Wiring Unlimited”. Yes some stuff will go over your (and my and most people’s) head - but you will learn LOTS!