Washer/Dryer, Dishwasher, and A/C!?

[timselectric]

I did order battery balancers for the BB I already have. That should eliminate the balancing right? But yes with the 48v batteries it seems like not worth something going wrong by running in series.

Is EG4 the way to go?

It's a good option.

 

[DrZ123]

One item you may to consider adding is a busbar for the batteries - it looks like you kinda have one…

The Victron PowerIn is a big bus bar that will make connecting and disconnecting batteries easy (for maintenance), also you can put several together. And it would be easier to add the power from a rack mount right to that spot.

You probably want to make one BIG battery (w/16 Battleborns and a ___rack mounts).

Be sure and read the owners manual for the Victron Multiplus that you have. Some of your questions are answered in it. Also read Victron’s “Wiring Unlimited”. Yes some stuff will go over your (and my and most people’s) head - but you will learn LOTS!

The system does have the individual bank disconnect switches as seen directly to the right of the batteries in the image. So I can disconnect parts as needed. I already have 4 battery balancers on order so the 12v in series stay balanced.

I have my eye on some EG4 V1 48v 100ah batteries. I probably don't need them really until next season, but tempted to buy now to start planning the system upgrade.

Do we think prices will drop substantially by the spring?

 

[DrZ123]

So if I got 5x EG4 48v packs and wired them in series, then I can put them through a bus bar along with the Battleborn connection all going to the inverter right?

 

[Rocketman]

So if I got 5x EG4 48v packs and wired them in series, then I can put them through a bus bar along with the Battleborn connection all going to the inverter right?

You have the right idea - except those 48v packs will be connected in Parallel with your 48v Battleborns.

Who knows if the batteries in the spring will be cheaper or more expensive- a lot depends on the lithium supply.

But because the batteries are a technology product, they should be a bit better. So I would wait until you need them to get them. (But that’s just me).

 

[DrZ123]

You have the right idea - except those 48v packs will be connected in Parallel with your 48v Battleborns.

Who knows if the batteries in the spring will be cheaper or more expensive- a lot depends on the lithium supply.

But because the batteries are a technology product, they should be a bit better. So I would wait until you need them to get them. (But that’s just me).

Have a line on someone selling new in box EG4 48v 100ah V1s for $1200 per. He bought them but didn't use them for a project. Have been sitting for a year or so. Can get 5 of them. Would save almost $1500 between shipping and tax over ordering online.

And yes, my mistake, have them in parallel as they are already 48v.

 

[Doggydogworld]

Have a line on someone selling new in box EG4 48v 100ah V1s for $1200 per. He bought them but didn't use them for a project. Have been sitting for a year or so. Can get 5 of them. Would save almost $1500 between shipping and tax over ordering online.

Test them. Sitting for long periods can be bad.

 

[DrZ123]

Test them. Sitting for long periods can be bad.

What should I test exactly? I believe it's been about a year and a half sitting. Owner said they test at around 52v w 3/4 bars on the LCD

 

[Doggydogworld]

I'd want to run them through a full charge/discharge/charge cycle, using a shunt or calibrated battery tester to measure actual input and output.

 

[DrZ123]

I'd want to run them through a full charge/discharge/charge cycle, using a shunt or calibrated battery tester to measure actual input and output.

Any recs as far as a machine to do the testing?

 

[Doggydogworld]

Any recs as far as a machine to do the testing?

Not me, but I've seen battery threads here and videos with people who do it right. And Will does a lot of battery testing, or course. Most here like the Victron Smart Shunt, they hook up a resistance heater or something to drain the battery and take readings from the shunt.

 

[DrZ123]

I have a smart shunt but it's hooked up to my system currently. Would be nice to have a simple portable tester that I could bring with me, anyone have a rec??

Could bring a high wattage portable heater. But that's going to take a while to test five batteries isn't it?

 

[DrZ123]

You have the right idea - except those 48v packs will be connected in Parallel with your 48v Battleborns.

Who knows if the batteries in the spring will be cheaper or more expensive- a lot depends on the lithium supply.

But because the batteries are a technology product, they should be a bit better. So I would wait until you need them to get them. (But that’s just me).

Could 5x 48v EG4 packs and my 16x Battleborns wired in 48v all run through the same charger and inveter?

 

[Quattrohead]

They could but they might not share well.
I had mixed bms's on 6 different batteries and 2 of them stopped sharing the load as the garage heated up. Then they would finally kick in when the others were flat and pass high current to "charge" the flat ones. Not a great situation.

 

[OffGridForGood]

a machine to do the testing

Battery hookup has the ZKETech EBC A-40 used for testing cells, takes time thou.

 

[DrZ123]

They could but they might not share well.
I had mixed bms's on 6 different batteries and 2 of them stopped sharing the load as the garage heated up. Then they would finally kick in when the others were flat and pass high current to "charge" the flat ones. Not a great situation.

I'd rather not lug 48v cells out there only to have issues mixing the BB and EG4. Guess then my only option is more BB or sell the BB or more EG4 48v? Would def be easier to mix and match!

 

[Quattrohead]

It seems like your Battleborn batteries are worth good money to people that want them, so I would investigate that angle and hopefully go with a standard single battery type if you can.
Like I said before, seeing an almost fully charged battery hitting an almost empty battery with way over 150 amps is kind of frightening.

 

[DrZ123]

It seems like your Battleborn batteries are worth good money to people that want them, so I would investigate that angle and hopefully go with a standard single battery type if you can.
Like I said before, seeing an almost fully charged battery hitting an almost empty battery with way over 150 amps is kind of frightening.

So either sell the 16x BBs for around $650-700 each, so $10,500 approximately, and then buy 8x EG4 48v batteries for around $1500 each so $12k. Will have to spend a couple thousand but alot of work to get out the BB, schlep down and on boat, and install new EG4s.

OR buy 16 more BBs for approximately $14k and have a similar capacity. Much easier to do but over $10k more spend.

What would you guys do?

 

[timselectric]

I can only recommend 48v batteries for a 48v system.

 

[DrZ123]

I can only recommend 48v batteries for a 48v system.

Anyone else?

 

[Quattrohead]

I have been saying the same thing all along ?

 

[DrZ123]

I guess a third option is build out a second system with another Victron 5000w Quattro inverter and whatever batteries I want and then just connect the two inverters for split phase.

In that case the batteries on each side shouldn't matter right?

 

[Rocketman]

you would think that -

I guess a third option is build out a second system with another Victron 5000w Quattro inverter and whatever batteries I want and then just connect the two inverters for split phase.

In that case the batteries on each side shouldn't matter right?

You would think that - but to connect two inverters together into split phase they must share the same battery - not only that but they need to have same cables - size, length,etc.

I would start by hooking up the rack Mount batteries you choose and then see what happens. If the batteries share current well (charging and discharging) your done.?. If they don’t play well together- then sell the Battleborns and get another rack. This one you won’t know what will happen until you set it up - it could be work out great or not…. Sometimes trial (and error) is the only way to learn.

 

[DrZ123]

you would think that -

You would think that - but to connect two inverters together into split phase they must share the same battery - not only that but they need to have same cables - size, length,etc.

I would start by hooking up the rack Mount batteries you choose and then see what happens. If the batteries share current well (charging and discharging) your done.?. If they don’t play well together- then sell the Battleborns and get another rack. This one you won’t know what will happen until you set it up - it could be work out great or not…. Sometimes trial (and error) is the only way to learn.

That's shocking to me, you would think once the power is getting to the inverter, it's generic power not battery specific!

So if I set up this way, I would have 10k watts in split phase. Would I be able to use an inverter generator like the AIvolt to charge the system if it gets low?

 

[DrZ123]

Also, this is having the two inverters connected each with their own battery bank (different brands)? Or one big battery bank hooked into the two inverters?

I was thinking to have two separate systems, like 2 solar arrays, 2 battery banks, 2 chargers, 2 inverters linked to each other. Does that even work?

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Also, this is having the two inverters connected each with their own battery bank (different brands)? Or one big battery bank hooked into the two inverters?

I was thinking to have two separate systems, like 2 solar arrays, 2 battery banks, 2 chargers, 2 inverters linked to each other. Does that even work?

2 separate systems work great, as long as you keep them separate !

When you talk AC , you talk about frequency, 60hz in the states.
This frequency MUST be matched. so there will be a "master" that gives the "go", and the "slave" that follows.

Try to imagine... 2 batteries, 2 inverters, master / slave, all seem good.
- situation 1: slave battery is empty first, it stops. battery get charged, wakes up as slave and... all ok
- situation 2: master battery is empty first, it stops. -> slave will become master as there is no one to listen to.
battery gets recharged, the "old master" wakes up, assuming its still master....
2 captains on 1 ship, 60hz, a small out of phase will provide magic smoke....
you absolutely don't want this.

As for many things, there is a workaround, you are lucky that you have Victron.
Victron has a "pass through" of 100A

You don't place them in parallel, but use one victron AC-out as the AC-in ("grid") for the next.
This normally will NOT work, as most inverter are limited in pass through to their own capacity.
normal inverter: 2 x 5 kw inverter, max output = 5 kw.
For victron: 2 x 5 kw = 10 kw, 5kw from the inverter and 5kw from pass through.

This way there is no master or slave.
there is "grid" (provided by the other) or no grid.
I haven't tried this, but there isnt a reason why it should not work.
Looping them, both AC out to the AC in (grid)... that doesn't feel like a workable solution
Obviously.you need to configure the Victron that it doesn't use the "grid" (AC provided by the other Victron)

Workaround, that works ONLY with inverters that have a high pass through.
Deye SUN12K-SG01LP1 is one of the few others that I found that have high pass through.