What is your experience with AliExpress?

[D71]

honestly if I was in the states I would buy one to test at that price, especially if the seller is in the US and offers a warranty of any reasonable sort.

They are typical china based but advertising present in USA. Looks like good battery package concept. Probably run the mini split a lot longer for power outage. Don’t like …. to get sweaty anymore. The friggin power always goes out on hottest days. The electric company crews don’t like to sweat so take their time too. Right?

I hate the way these companies advertise with so many other versions shown on their sales page. They have 300ah, 230ah, and 100ah listed on that sales page. Sure be a pisser to get 100ah version vs 300ah model. They have the 100ah model listed for more money. Crazy. …..

Their cell prices seem cheap too. Eve Cells should be Eve cells but…..might not be ….. China was known for low quality cloning

LiFePO4 Cell

Discover WISTEK's leading energy storage solutions to help you realize your energy transition and sustainable development. We provide high-performance, reliable energy storage solutions that help you rank higher in search engines and achieve your energy autonomy and energy savings goals. Learn...

wis-tek.com

I despise paying American prices for Chinese. The whole reason buying from over seas is lower price …. WALMART.

There was nothing returned on this forum for results when searched for “Wistek.”




Not released until end June. Then additional ship time. Usually get buggy shit with first versions - firmware





Sales - stock here but lot more money. Touched.
These units favor one another.




UL ratings

 

[D71]

ALIEXPRESS and Alibaba are both FLAKEY.
WisTek on Alibaba and no doubt they will jam on taxes. So what is the point? Hmmm …. On their Internet website it says free shipping.

Powering Homes Efficiently: Wall-Mounted 51.2V 300Ah Lithium-Ion Batte

Elevate your home energy storage with a wall-mounted 48V 105Ah lithium-ion battery from Wis-Tek. Equipped with a BMS for safety and efficiency, this battery offers reliable power for your household needs. Optimize your energy usage and reduce costs with this advanced solution.

wis-tek.com

Most of this shit is like looking at an old timey Sears Catalog. Andy Off Grid Garage has been building several batteries lately and seems none of them go together as intended or have some shortcoming. …. Hmmm ….it doesn’t save money or time if you have to change bus bars and bms…. Modify the cases. Who knows what batteries are stuff in the assembled ones and how they were put together. Same for rest of shit from china. Or buy chinese shit with american face on it.

 

[D71]

For better or worse just married Aliexpress with an order. Going to test the waters. It reminds me of old Banggood website.

I do not like way they advertise on Alibaba. Hard to tell what am placing order info on. They should do like EBAY or store front and show everything up front. Some stuff on Alibaba is crazy high. Flea Market high as in brand new at store is cheaper.

Some of the items ordered won’t be delivered for estimate of early August. Damn….slow boat or no boat. Years ago chinese were running scams on EBAY where they took money had use of it for several months interest free. Then when pressed would give refund…. Shitheads tried to keep processing fees or claimed fake restocking fees on items that were never tendered. The scam was simply to get your - my money and use it for 2 months as interest free loans. Then refund….this works out well as long as ppl are giving them money ….it becomes a ponzi …use next person - suckers money for refund … to person demanding refund. Never send anything. Scam.

These look interesting but everyone say they are “NOT NEW’ cells despite the claim. They say are not 200ah either. I think the cases look stronger than typical prismatic. The need be higher ah to catch my complete attention. I’d venture guess they are stiffer by case design thus not really compression concern. Wonder why all cells are not made like this? Started to order 32 of them. Shhhhsss these are really 180ah cells.



I ordered one of these cases to house my 304ah battery cells. Order couple jk bms too. Lost power here for about 6+ hours last night - into this morning. Stupid shit is starting again. My ~51.2volt ~5kW battery is not big enough for extended run. If like this 304ah case and battery combo will order 1 more. ~30kW - ~35kW battery should last me a while …..304ah cells sourced local. I’d bet a person could make their own case like this. These had good reviews.

 

[Bob B]

Now for the long wait and poor tracking that will drive you nuts .... Hope it works out for ya.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

those cells are the CALB 200 series. they stopped making them about 5-6 years ago I believe, maybe further back. That is the type of cell I bought initially and they were out of production by at least two years then. they are fairly robust, the only compression I put on them was basic spring load to keep the aluminum plates for heating the cells in good contact, though CALB did sell a banding compression kit similar to Winston's.

Good luck hope the seller is not a scam artist.

 

[D71]

Now for the long wait and poor tracking that will drive you nuts .... Hope it works out for ya.

The biggest problem is if they screw up order will take 60 days or more to ship over whatever was messed up. Banggood was pita slow too. I can hardly believe anyone still buys from them now. To expensive and still slow.
Thanks

those cells are the CALB 200 series. they stopped making them about 5-6 years ago I believe, maybe further back. That is the type of cell I bought initially and they were out of production by at least two years then. they are fairly robust, the only compression I put on them was basic spring load to keep the aluminum plates for heating the cells in good contact, though CALB did sell a banding compression kit similar to Winston's.

Good luck hope the seller is not a scam artist.

I highly doubted those cells were new after reading reviews. I do like the design. So far been talking to jennywu at docan technology and her prices are best so far. She seems trusted from a lot of ppl.
Thanks

 

[Bob B]

The biggest problem is if they screw up order will take 60 days or more to ship over whatever was messed up. Banggood was pita slow too. I can hardly believe anyone still buys from them now. To expensive and still slow.
Thanks

I highly doubted those cells were new after reading reviews. I do like the design. So far been talking to jennywu at docan technology and her prices are best so far. She seems trusted from a lot of ppl.
Thanks

Have you seen any of this guy's videos ..... He used to be an active forum member. He is one of the few I think does honest reviews ..... He a REALLY big fan of Jenny Wu.

 

[D71]

Have you seen any of this guy's videos ..... He used to be an active forum member. He is one of the few I think does honest reviews ..... He a REALLY big fan of Jenny Wu.

I did in fact see a few of his videos and he is reason contacted Jennywu just as other ppl gave thumbs up too.

I seen a very sad review by him - he did a review then person that owned company threatened to DOX him and dug up his past.
I thought it a shitty thing to do to a person offering their honest opinion….threaten black mail - dox. Over a test result like had been done - used with other products in the past. The battery cell - products were reported to perform poorly by Ray.

I’ve seen Will Prowse make - show videos where his opinion was less then product promoting and figure there was someone mad at him along his way too. I consider him- Prowse as honest too.

I would not want my reputation stained showing others what felt was a bad product but calling it good. Those ppl are called a ‘’TOOL’’.

I did not know Ray was on forum. The prices from JennyWu are some of the best have seen. Her best prices require slow boat from china ~60 days to deliver.



Anybody seen better pricing from a recommended supplier?
Debating slow boat or USA supply. Just money. It is being devalued every day. Like glass of wine or whiskey and ppl taking drink then replacing amount drank with water.

 

[TommySr]

I would have a hard time waiting 60days

 

[42OhmsPA]

Anybody seen better pricing from a recommended supplier?

The only thing that comes close, that I'm aware of, for US stock is the Batterotech from Gobel.
I've made 3 orders through Jenny and wouldn't hesitate to place more.

There were some reports Docan was being shady a while back and relasering QR codes no idea if it was true but evidence shown suggested it. I could really give a shit, the 32 230AH 'grade A' Eve I've been running have been flawless, so have the 16 305AH grade B Envision from 18650 (I still regret not ordering more of them)

 

[D71]

The only thing that comes close, that I'm aware of, for US stock is the Batterotech from Gobel.
I've made 3 orders through Jenny and wouldn't hesitate to place more.

There were some reports Docan was being shady a while back and relasering QR codes no idea if it was true but evidence shown suggested it. I could really give a shit, the 32 230AH 'grade A' Eve I've been running have been flawless, so have the 16 305AH grade B Envision from 18650 (I still regret not ordering more of them)

Thank you and that is kind of info am looking for to make purchase decisions. I just could not do the prepacked batteries again. Was tempted.

I will probably break the prepacked batteries free with new 48v jk-bms that is on order. That jk bms is suppose have heater control which can hopefully figure out. Old packed batteries have heaters. I may turn them into 12v power point projects….with cheap small watt Victron 12v inverters.
Docan cell laser picture - had read ppl had issues. Companies stumble from time to time.



The Gobel caught my eye earlier looked at their battery boxes. Andy Off Grid Garage did a review on the Gobel box but they were not reported as decent quality. Think he used Gobel batteries his complaint was DIY box did not assembly properly. Least way think it was Gobel - he has done bunch diy boxes.

I looked at these but wasn’t sure.




The time wait is worse part of dealing direct from china. Banggood was slow asf too.

Those Battero Lifepo cells looked to good to be true for prices when spied them. I am not an impulse buyer.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Thank you and that is kind of info am looking for to make purchase decisions. I just could not do the prepacked batteries again. Was tempted.

I will probably break the prepacked batteries free with new 48v jk-bms that is on order. That jk bms is suppose have heater control which can hopefully figure out. Old packed batteries have heaters. I may turn them into 12v power point projects….with cheap small watt Victron 12v inverters.
Docan cell laser picture - had read ppl had issues. Companies stumble from time to time.
View attachment 218305


The Gobel caught my eye earlier looked at their battery boxes. Andy Off Grid Garage did a review on the Gobel box but they were not reported as decent quality. Think he used Gobel batteries his complaint was DIY box did not assembly properly. Least way think it was Gobel - he has done bunch diy boxes.

I looked at these but wasn’t sure.
View attachment 218301

View attachment 218302

The time wait is worse part of dealing direct from china. Banggood was slow asf too.

Those Battero Lifepo cells looked to good to be true for prices when spied them. I am not an impulse buyer.

No problem, I don't really buy on impulse either. I actually had to stop myself on not hitting checkout on PSA past night, one large purchase is enough (until Independence day anyway lol).

The only complaints I remember reading on the Battero Tech were potentially small terminal contact points, that's easy enough to take care of by adding more packs in parallel to keep C rated down . AFAIK they are a parent company of REPT, which Docan has for 75 a cell.

I'm watching prices closely and will pull the trigger at the next price change or sooner.
If I'm running the ASPs full tilt I could potentially pull 400A from my battery, with my 3 parallel packs that's not to bad and things are built to handle that much current; except the 100A Midnite breakers I have on each pack ( I did that on purpose so I'm not hammering the cells ...) A 4th pack in the next month(s) and 5th in the fall and I just might, by the grace of the sun, make it through this winter without the grid. (I said that last year when I added my 3rd pack and ground mount...)

Now that I've found another fun and practical addiction building things that cause objects to move at a high velocity over a long distance I might actually be able to control my energy independence addiction. ..

 

[D71]

Still not made up mind with batteries

 

[D71]

No problem, I don't really buy on impulse either. I actually had to stop myself on not hitting checkout on PSA past night, one large purchase is enough (until Independence day anyway lol).

The only complaints I remember reading on the Battero Tech were potentially small terminal contact points, that's easy enough to take care of by adding more packs in parallel to keep C rated down . AFAIK they are a parent company of REPT, which Docan has for 75 a cell.

I'm watching prices closely and will pull the trigger at the next price change or sooner.
If I'm running the ASPs full tilt I could potentially pull 400A from my battery, with my 3 parallel packs that's not to bad and things are built to handle that much current; except the 100A Midnite breakers I have on each pack ( I did that on purpose so I'm not hammering the cells ...) A 4th pack in the next month(s) and 5th in the fall and I just might, by the grace of the sun, make it through this winter without the grid. (I said that last year when I added my 3rd pack and ground mount...)

Now that I've found another fun and practical addiction building things that cause objects to move at a high velocity over a long distance I might actually be able to control my energy independence addiction. ..

Did your batteries arrive yet

 

[42OhmsPA]

Did your batteries arrive yet

Haven't ordered them, yet.

 

[D71]

Haven't ordered them, yet.

I’m still deciding between them. Battero and EVE

The battero are the most affordable.

 

[Xhumeka]

I'm ordering 8 of the MB31 cell from Jenny Wu... I don't mind the 60 day wait time, I've placed 3 or 4 orders from China in the past few years and never had an issue with my orders (other than the wait time, but that was expected).

Ray's video is what sold me on this order... I like the fact she includes the battery separator sheets. It's a small thing, but appreciated!

I'll let you know what I think of them in 2 months

 

[D71]

I'm ordering 8 of the MB31 cell from Jenny Wu... I don't mind the 60 day wait time, I've placed 3 or 4 orders from China in the past few years and never had an issue with my orders (other than the wait time, but that was expected).

Ray's video is what sold me on this order... I like the fact she includes the battery separator sheets. It's a small thing, but appreciated!

I'll let you know what I think of them in 2 months

I’ll know by tomorrow about a purchase for 16 cells rated at 304ah. Fedex delivery. Got 2 each jk-200amp bms should be here by friday. I figure 45kw battery might be better. Maybe… going to see how this build does…hopefully battery build box will be here before End of July.

I may take measurements and build my own boxes. Act like chinese.

Maybe it all goes good maybe not.

 

[D71]

Good ol FEDEX delivered 3 boxes out of 8. Other 5 are suppose to be here tomorrow or so. Fedex is terrible about - for losing MY packages.



The cells are nice packaged 2 per box…come with bus bars and fiber separator sheets. No scratches on batteries perfectly flat no bulges in fact they look brand new. 280ah but advertised as 300ah + for capacity which remains to be seen. Otherwise everything appears as advertised and better. Appearances speak volumes. The price was very good… $1512.00 Cheaper then buying factory packed batteries with unknown cells inside. A single Chins 48v 100ah factory pack was on sale for ~$1100 at the time bought these cells from Jenny.

Jenny Wu is the real deal. These were American - USA stocked with Ultra fast shipping. I am impressed so far. Delivery delayed for rest account of Fedex. Maybe later today or tomorrow…..

Now waiting on AliExpress deliveries too.
Got 1 item - N.m torque wrench set today will know how it works when assembly batteries - to torque bus bars and other electrical connections. I can’t find my torque screw driver anywhere so….this will do. The ratchet is ultra fine tooth and smooth and the torque adjustment is smooth for torque settings. Pleased with AliExpress delivering as advertised too. The JK-200 amp BMS are suppose to be here tomorrow.

Feels good to buy pass Amazon. I might buy next set batteries from JennyWu or spread the wealth to another. No loyalty. It is mostly gone in business after all business is business. So am not pushing JennyWu but the service so far is above expectations.


Anybody using one of these?

 

[D71]

Got all 16 cells in for my new battery JennyWu delivers and that was most pain free service had in long time. Me love you, Jenny. .my name is Forest Gump.

Got both of my jk bms JK-B2A20S20P-HC in from AliExpress. All am just waiting on now is my battery build box. Looked at bottom of my cabinet again and might get a set to fit in bottom of it…then would have to order 16 more 280ah cells for the pre-made diy box. So far am pleased with AliExpress. I don’t like Alibaba. Tried to buy a USA spec 120/240 split phase Deye 10kw inverter 3 or 4 times but found they are to wishy washy. Lack confidence. I may buy another MPP Solar 3048 from Watts 24-7 and run them split phase 120/240 vac. Idle watts will be ~85-90watts for both. Hmmm …. I’ve never seen anyone running 3048 in parallel split phase. 2 is 1 and 1 is none.

This jkbms they advertise and sell on Amazon is $284.99 - $214.99 with $70 discount. Wholly sheep shit fleeced. On AliExpress same jk bms is $97 so boy scout said buy 2 but should of been 3. Two is one and one is none. Most everyone has been out of bms …. The Cells that I was going to buy from Gobel Power are now on back order….. Wait List.


Me realizing could fit 2 rows 16 each per shelf of 280ah battery cells in my existing roll around emergency solar power - metal cabinet. 30kw. Probably only put them on very bottom. The shelve rate is only around 100 pounds each and 16 cells are around 208 pounds. But the bottom shelve is reinforced…no problem.
Cells fit good.

How many ppl are on solar here? ? If you are preaching it you damn well better be living it? Green Energy is shekel … expensive…. For every dollar we save can send two dollars to a foreign country so our politicians can get a dollar back for themselves. 2 for 1 deal with them. Support USA Govt. just do it change we can believe in.

Buck up. Should I insulate the metal shelves? With what? I think C4 vette Composition C thermal paste on bottoms. I can pop hole in cabinet ends to put in cell compression too. Just can’t squeeze it to tight. Boom. Any advice on the proper compression amount. I’d bet they don’t worry about that with factory pack batteries like Himassi on the bottom shelf right now. …..

I want to run the mini split so I have no global warming on my private and the hairy beastie friends this summer when blacked out. You know when the grid blacks out from being old and over loaded. I lived in a desert for few years crawling around in it … hot as mf’er. I don’t plan to die from old over loaded non updated neglected grid going down - passing out before the reward because some yuppie up the street plugged up his EV. Old mf’ers are about done carrying the loads.

Fad monster wanna be then saying see black out caused by Global warming. The fact is shit heads sent all our money to foreign countries vs spending it HERE on upgrades and required maintenance practices HERE. Now we are broke as a mf’er ~$35 trillion dollars in debt and everyday my savings drop more. Already cut in half from before Biden came into RULING THIS USSA until now. Some butt munch wants to say it was Trump….that robbed me. Hahaha say Show me ….. your solar array…..mf’er. New Green Deal is transfer of wealth. Make plans to make it easy on yourself for as long as you can.

Making bacon topped off batteries no required load for himassi battery set. Those batteries were around $1100 dollars for 5.1kw now for $1512 bought around 3x as much. Smile. 600watts idling… offsets the inverter and Raspberry PI400 easy peasy.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Got all 16 cells in for my new battery JennyWu delivers and that was most pain free service had in long time. Me love you, Jenny. .my name is Forest Gump.

Got both of my jk bms JK-B2A20S20P-HC in from AliExpress. All am just waiting on now is my battery build box. Looked at bottom of my cabinet again and might get a set to fit in bottom of it…then would have to order 16 more 280ah cells for the pre-made diy box. So far am pleased with AliExpress. I don’t like Alibaba. Tried to buy a USA spec 120/240 split phase Deye 10kw inverter 3 or 4 times but found they are to wishy washy. Lack confidence. I may buy another MPP Solar 3048 from Watts 24-7 and run them split phase 120/240 vac. Idle watts will be ~85-90watts for both. Hmmm …. I’ve never seen anyone running 3048 in parallel split phase. 2 is 1 and 1 is none.

This jkbms they advertise and sell on Amazon is $284.99 - $214.99 with $70 discount. Wholly sheep shit fleeced. On AliExpress same jk bms is $97 so boy scout said buy 2 but should of been 3. Two is one and one is none. Most everyone has been out of bms …. The Cells that I was going to buy from Gobel Power are now on back order….. Wait List.
View attachment 220729

Me realizing could fit 2 rows 16 each per shelf of 280ah battery cells in my existing roll around emergency solar power - metal cabinet. 30kw. Probably only put them on very bottom. The shelve rate is only around 100 pounds each and 16 cells are around 208 pounds. But the bottom shelve is reinforced…no problem.
Cells fit good.
View attachment 220732
How many ppl are on solar here? ? If you are preaching it you damn well better be living it? Green Energy is shekel … expensive…. For every dollar we save can send two dollars to a foreign country so our politicians can get a dollar back for themselves. 2 for 1 deal with them. Support USA Govt. just do it change we can believe in.

Buck up. Should I insulate the metal shelves? With what? I think C4 vette Composition C thermal paste on bottoms. I can pop hole in cabinet ends to put in cell compression too. Just can’t squeeze it to tight. Boom. Any advice on the proper compression amount. I’d bet they don’t worry about that with factory pack batteries like Himassi on the bottom shelf right now. …..

I want to run the mini split so I have no global warming on my private and the hairy beastie friends this summer when blacked out. You know when the grid blacks out from being old and over loaded. I lived in a desert for few years crawling around in it … hot as mf’er. I don’t plan to die from old over loaded non updated neglected grid going down - passing out before the reward because some yuppie up the street plugged up his EV. Old mf’ers are about done carrying the loads.

Fad monster wanna be then saying see black out caused by Global warming. The fact is shit heads sent all our money to foreign countries vs spending it HERE on upgrades and required maintenance practices HERE. Now we are broke as a mf’er ~$35 trillion dollars in debt and everyday my savings drop more. Already cut in half from before Biden came into RULING THIS USSA until now. Some butt munch wants to say it was Trump….that robbed me. Hahaha say Show me ….. your solar array…..mf’er. New Green Deal is transfer of wealth. Make plans to make it easy on yourself for as long as you can.

Making bacon topped off batteries no required load for himassi battery set. Those batteries were around $1100 dollars for 5.1kw now for $1512 bought around 3x as much. Smile. 600watts idling… offsets the inverter and Raspberry PI400 easy peasy.
View attachment 220734

I love your posts man, can almost always get a smile and a laugh, Forest Gump .

Did you order the REPT or EVE from her? Did they come with the insulation sheets?
I'm going to order the REPT today or tomorrow.

I'm a big fan of the cutting boards from Sam's Club or Costco for the bottoms. They are slippery and fairly thick plus they make a great mess when you rip them down on the table saw.

Ali is the cheapest I've found for my JBD's, I've also ordered them from Jenny with cells.

I too tried getting a Deye, maybe someday.

I'd use NO-OX ID A special on all bus bars and connections.

I don't compress, just restrain. It's ghetto but it's been working great.

 

[D71]

I love your posts man, can almost always get a smile and a laugh, Forest Gump .

Did you order the REPT or EVE from her? Did they come with the insulation sheets?
I'm going to order the REPT today or tomorrow.

I'm a big fan of the cutting boards from Sam's Club or Costco for the bottoms. They are slippery and fairly thick plus they make a great mess when you rip them down on the table saw.

Ali is the cheapest I've found for my JBD's, I've also ordered them from Jenny with cells.

I too tried getting a Deye, maybe someday.

I'd use NO-OX ID A special on all bus bars and connections.

I don't compress, just restrain. It's ghetto but it's been working great.

If we think about it will realize none of batteries are compressed …. In factory packs just contained. I’m not sure compression is a great idea. I’d rather they expand a tad vs popping. … when you compress something and it lets the smoke out not going to be good.

I almost had one for the 10kw Deye 120/240 $2000 shipped but seller came back and swapped it for some water proof SRNE 10kw. Never heard of it. “Some spiel about USA all locked up.”….. “No Deye” They advertised Deye split phase 120/240….Alibaba.


Sheets came with cells as did bus bars. Got extra sheets from AliExpress. I am liking it so far. Alibaba is wishy washy. I’d figure the bus bar need it too. These EVE 280ah cells from jenny are 2 to a box. They are suppose to test over 300ah.

I may order set from Gobel Power



Next time drive to Florida might stop get a set of these. Not sure which like better. The bus bars are more robust. The flex bus bars might be the best to allow things to move.

 

[42OhmsPA]

If we think about it will realize none of batteries are compressed …. In factory packs just contained. I’m not sure compression is a great idea. I’d rather they expand a tad vs popping. … when you compress something and it lets the smoke out not going to be good.

I almost had one for the 10kw Deye 120/240 $2000 shipped but seller came back and swapped it for some water proof SRNE 10kw. Never heard of it. “Some spiel about USA all locked up.”….. “No Deye” They advertised Deye split phase 120/240….Alibaba.


Sheets came with cells as did bus bars. Got extra sheets from AliExpress. I am liking it so far. Alibaba is wishy washy. I’d figure the bus bar need it too. These EVE 280ah cells from jenny are 2 to a box. They are suppose to test over 300ah.

I may order set from Gobel Power

View attachment 220754

Next time drive to Florida might stop get a set of these. Not sure which like better. The bus bars are more robust. The flex bus bars might be the best to allow things to move.

View attachment 220755

View attachment 220756

I'm using both types of bus bars. I prefer the flex type due to seeming to be more robust.
My Envision cells came from 18650, no complaints, I wouldn't hesitate to do business with them again.
EVE does call out compression, iirc you can gain some additional cycle life but calendar aging will likely win, or a new technology.

 

[TommySr]

D71 from other topic ---> Tommy if were you would look at my Aliexpress post on here and buy prismatic cells.

D71, did the math, prismatic cells worked better on my slide ruler, seemed to shorten build time also.

The diy battery box is due in August on slow boat from china.

this would drive a nail through my head, going to build my own box.

 

[D71]

D71, did the math, prismatic cells worked better on my slide ruler, seemed to shorten build time also.

this would drive a nail through my head, going to build my own box.

Seen few videos the prismatic are probably safer. Maybe. Swelling. The dimensionS are here on these boxes for 280ah + cells.





I ordered the EBC-A40L cell charger tester to check the claimed capacity but it has not arrived yet either.

Like this one with120vac plug. Almost ordered wrong version - plug. I ordered mine from different source this is reference. These testers can be graphed with computer while testing cells.

I may buy more prismatic cells for that case when it finally gets here in AUGUST and use the CELLS have in bottom of my current roll around cabinet.