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What percent charge do you get from dc-dc from alternator?

justinm001

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I have a 24v alternator so have 24-12 dc-dc converters and 24-48 dc-dc converters, all victron Orions. Seems I can't get either to charge to 100%.

The 12v system is cranked all the way up but can't seem to get above 70%ish charge and it slows down the more charged the battery gets. Still handles all the DC loads but doesn't actually charge.

The 48v system is hard to dial in as 3/4 turn changes from 40-60v, if I crank it all the way up I get a high voltage alert if the engine is on while plugged into shore. So they're down to like 56v I think. Still trying to dial in and see how much of a charge I can get. Also these run extremely hot and seem to derate as I was only getting around 1200w of the 1600w.

Is it unrealistic to expect to get 90% charge from dc-dc converters? I typically leave with 100% charge so when our load goes above the 1500w on either system while driving it drains the battery and doesn't recover.
 
I have a 24v alternator so have 24-12 dc-dc converters and 24-48 dc-dc converters, all victron Orions. Seems I can't get either to charge to 100%.

The 12v system is cranked all the way up but can't seem to get above 70%ish charge and it slows down the more charged the battery gets. Still handles all the DC loads but doesn't actually charge.

The 48v system is hard to dial in as 3/4 turn changes from 40-60v, if I crank it all the way up I get a high voltage alert if the engine is on while plugged into shore. So they're down to like 56v I think. Still trying to dial in and see how much of a charge I can get. Also these run extremely hot and seem to derate as I was only getting around 1200w of the 1600w.

Is it unrealistic to expect to get 90% charge from dc-dc converters? I typically leave with 100% charge so when our load goes above the 1500w on either system while driving it drains the battery and doesn't recover.
Sorry, not trying to be rude, interested as I am choosing a dcdc charger, but...

Your post makes little sense. Dc dc converters don't accept a "charge" to some level, Batteries charge. But you arent discussing battery voltages at all. You keep using the word charge for things that don't do it. Your improper use of terms makes you post nonsensical...

What do you mean, "12v system is cranked all the way up"? Maybe something like, "I have set the output on my 24 12 dcdc converter to 14.4v, but the output voltage I measure from it is 13.1v max?" Something similar with accurate statements about what you are actually measuring and seeing would help...

What batteries do you have, what voltage is battery bank, what voltage are you seeing, is voltage what you're using to estimate battery charge, what load are you running that your dcdc are handling while attempting to charge batteries, what do you mean sliws down and how are you measuring that, is it the batteries that are running hot or the dcdc converters, you say 1200w of the 1600w so is that batteries and if so why aren't you using wh to discuss their power storage, etc...

I don't understand how your post here is so completely lacking in correct terminology or accuracy, but I looked at some of your other posts and you seemed to understand what you were talking about?
 
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Your post makes zero sense. Dc dc converters don't "charge". Batteries charge. You keep using the word charge for things that don't do it, yet never mentioned batteries once. Your improper use of terms makes you post nonsensical...
dc dc converters provide a charge and batteries receive that charge, right? As long as the voltage is above the batteries charging rate it should be absorbed by the batteries.

DC-DC converters are hooked up from the alternator to the Lynx distibution bar which is all connected to the batteries. I can't get them to charge the batteries in their respective system above 70% ish.

The converters should provide additional voltage above the operating voltage in which should provide a charge to the batteries. Most seem to use dc-dc converters from alternator to their LFP batteries to provide a charge and I'm just not certain how to get them to charge enough.

For example with my 12V system when SOC is 30-40% and running about 300w total loads (25a) I was only getting 7.8a max into the batteries and a lot of it was only 2amps. (the huge spikes were from genny charging. This is from 1 orion which should be pumping 70-85amps and I only get under 40amps at any point from it.

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Have you tried contacting Victron? I think the problem may be that you are using converters instead of chargers, the converters can charge a battery but don't use a charging profile so probably limit current based on whatever the resistance is in your system with all the wiring and connections and whatnot.

 
Also, curious as to why you don't have a 48v alternator allowing you to skip the 24v-48v conversion.
 
I just realized they make 24/12 smart orions. Maybe I need to get a couple of those to boost the not smart ones.

The coach has a 270a 24v alt on top of a 75a 24v alt. I'm really considering adding a 48v 100a alt as I already have a wakespeed that's not in use. Problem is the "coach" 270a is massive oil cooled 50dn and on the main drive and the chassis is on its own belt away from the engine. It works well as I have the small alt set to like 27v and large at 28v so it really just uses the big one and both connected together. Just over new years the big alt somehow melted the little anl fuse to its controller and noticed the voltage was a bit lower when driving so swapped it out.

I do have a bracket for a 3rd alt just not sure I really need 3 of them. I also haven't found a good 48v alt. The Balmer 100a is like 3 grand. The nation's 100a comes with a wakespeed for 3300, there's some generic ones on ebay that don't seem to have much info about how it's regulated, then there's the ones off jeeps and such with etorque which not sure if it'll easily bolt up or work well with the wakespeed.

1500w to each system is perfect as it's just enough to run an AC on each and cover the idle loads but now if I run an AC or heater it'll slowly kick on. But now if I go over the dc-dc converter limits it'll drain the battery then not recharge when they cycle
 
dc dc converters provide a charge and batteries receive that charge, right? As long as the voltage is above the batteries charging rate it should be absorbed by the batteries.

DC-DC converters are hooked up from the alternator to the Lynx distibution bar which is all connected to the batteries. I can't get them to charge the batteries in their respective system above 70% ish.

The converters should provide additional voltage above the operating voltage in which should provide a charge to the batteries. Most seem to use dc-dc converters from alternator to their LFP batteries to provide a charge and I'm just not certain how to get them to charge enough.

For example with my 12V system when SOC is 30-40% and running about 300w total loads (25a) I was only getting 7.8a max into the batteries and a lot of it was only 2amps. (the huge spikes were from genny charging. This is from 1 orion which should be pumping 70-85amps and I only get under 40amps at any point from it.

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Edit, I see while typing you gave all the info I needed and asked for below... with your large alternator having issues and melted fuse, I'd bet it wasn't outputting, load was on small alternator, thus driving supply issues below.

Justin, thx for the reply with good info, I think I inderstand more now.
So, you have two separate battery systems, both charging off same alternator. A 12v battery system being charged up by a 24 12 dcdc Victron Orion, and a 48v battery system being charged up by four separate 24 48 8.5A dcdc Victron Orions.

So, each 24 48 Orion can do 400w max, 8.5A at 48v nominal. That is a total of 1600w to go into 48v battery bank.

I can't tell what your 24 12 dcdc amperage is, but am going to guess their 24 12 30A, with 360w max.

Here is what is probably happening. Go here to download the Victron Orion spec sheets to see this info in person:

Lets look at the 24 12 30A converter, the 24 48 8.5A is in same table and similar. Those dcdc convertors have an input voltage range 20-35v, and a setable output voltage range. They also shut down if the input voltage from alternator is below 14v, then restart when input voltage from alternator goes above 15v. Their nominal output voltage is 12.2v, but can be adjusted from 10-15v.

BUT HERE IS THE PROBLEM. There is a note by Victron for if you adjust input or output voltages, which you did:
"If the output voltage is set higher than nominal by a certain percentage, the minimum input voltage at which the output voltage remains stable (does not decrease) increases by the same percentage"

This "remains stable" means minimum input voltage is met and it doesn't shut down!

So, if you have the output voltage "cranked all the way up" as you said, that is 15v instead of nominal 12.2v, so 123%. It says the min input voltage now increase from 14v to 17.2v!

So, your alternator is probably a smart alternator? At idle it probably drops output voltage, most do, probably drives voltage below the min input voltage with nominal settings, so the charger shuts down and doesnt charge, waiting for you to rev the engine up and alternator gets above the restart trigger. With output cranked up to 15v, the thing shuts down when input is below 17.2v, probably restarts above 18.2v.

The 24 48 8.5A converters likewise:
same 14v min input cutoff, output nominal 48.2v but adjustable to 60. Which I think you said you set 56? In any case, that gives same 17v min input from alternator to turn converters off, and wake back at 18v.

You are demanding from alternator probably 1600w via 48v system (four 400w converters), plus 360 from 12v system, for 1960w. That is a ton!

I don't know what your alternator is, which is the critical piece of info here needed. is this the single alternator used for motor?
However, alternators only supply 50% or less rated power at idle, and can only supply your batteries power in excess of what your van is already using, which is normally like 50% of rated. And alternators can't run at 80-100% rated power for long before they get hot, and then the smart function DROPS THEIR VOLTAGE OUTPUT TO PROTECT ALTERNATOR UNTIL COOL.

So, I would guess you are having an overloaded alternator issue. My 12v 130A alternator can only do 1800w at peak for a short while, and can only do 1000w total in idle, of which only 300w or so is available after truck engine and airco use! If you are demanding 1960w from your alternator, then it would likely need to be rated at 4500w or something to deliver, without overheating or curtailing voltage and thus shutting down your chargers. So a 320A 12v alternator, or 180A 24v or such?

So, I recommend measuring the alternator output voltage and see what is going on there, and also measure the dcdc input voltage (which should be the alternator output) and then their output voltage, to see if they are cutting out.
 
Justin, thx for the reply with good info, I think I inderstand more now.
So, you have two separate battery systems, both charging off same alternator. A 12v battery system being charged up by a 24 12 dcdc Victron Orion, and a 48v battery system being charged up by four separate 24 48 8.5A dcdc Victron Orions.

So, each 24 48 Orion can do 400w max, 8.5A at 48v nominal. That is a total of 1600w to go into 48v battery bank.

I can't tell what your 24 12 dcdc amperage is, but am going to guess their 24 12 30A, with 360w max.

Here is what is probably happening. Go here to download the Victron Orion spec sheets to see this info in person:

Lets look at the 24 12 30A converter, the 24 48 8.5A is in same table and similar. Those dcdc convertors have an input voltage range 20-35v, and a setable output voltage range. They also shut down if the input voltage from alternator is below 14v, then restart when input voltage from alternator goes above 15v. Their nominal output voltage is 12.2v, but can be adjusted from 10-15v.

BUT HERE IS THE PROBLEM. There is a note by Victron for if you adjust input or output voltages, which you did:
"If the output voltage is set higher than nominal by a certain percentage, the minimum input voltage at which the output voltage remains stable (does not decrease) increases by the same percentage"

This "remains stable" means minimum input voltage is met and it doesn't shut down!

So, if you have the output voltage "cranked all the way up" as you said, that is 15v instead of nominal 12.2v, so 123%. It says the min input voltage now increase from 14v to 17.2v!

So, your alternator is probably a smart alternator? At idle it probably drops output voltage, most do, probably drives voltage below the min input voltage with nominal settings, so the charger shuts down and doesnt charge, waiting for you to rev the engine up and alternator gets above the restart trigger. With output cranked up to 15v, the thing shuts down when input is below 17.2v, probably restarts above 18.2v.

The 24 48 8.5A converters likewise:
same 14v min input cutoff, output nominal 48.2v but adjustable to 60. Which I think you said you set 56? In any case, that gives same 17v min input from alternator to turn converters off, and wake back at 18v.

You are demanding from alternator probably 1600w via 48v system (four 400w converters), plus 360 from 12v system, for 1960w. That is a ton!

I don't know what your alternator is, which is the critical piece of info here needed. is this the single alternator used for motor?
However, alternators only supply 50% or less rated power at idle, and can only supply your batteries power in excess of what your van is already using, which is normally like 50% of rated. And alternators can't run at 80-100% rated power for long before they get hot, and then the smart function DROPS THEIR VOLTAGE OUTPUT TO PROTECT ALTERNATOR UNTIL COOL.

So, I would guess you are having an overloaded alternator issue. My 12v 130A alternator can only do 1800w at peak for a short while, and can only do 1000w total in idle, of which only 300w or so is available after truck engine and airco use! If you are demanding 1960w from your alternator, then it would likely need to be rated at 4500w or something to deliver, without overheating or curtailing voltage and thus shutting down your chargers. So a 320A 12v alternator, or 180A 24v or such?

So, I recommend measuring the alternator output voltage and see what is going on there, and also measure the dcdc input voltage (which should be the alternator output) and then their output voltage, to see if they are cutting out.
I have 2x 24/12 Orion 70a which go up to 85a. I only have 1 on as I lost the little remote plug but have tried with both and same issue just twice the output.

The Alternator is a 50DN 24V 270a which is rated at 100% duty cycle as its an industrial grade designed to run massive bus air system and oil cooled. The voltage doesn't move at idle as even with all 6 of these running its only 140amps at 24v. Additionally I have a 2nd 24v 75a chassis alternator which runs at a bit lower voltage. I connected these both together which is connected to my 4x huge chassis batteries which are series/parallel and maintained by a 100a Vanner. Neither are smart alternators or anything, its an 2008 Prevost bus built like a tank.

IF I turn off my 270a alt and have just the 75a alt powering all 6 of these converters they will drop power at idle and I can tell I'm overloading that. With the big alt on (its always on) the voltage is rock solid. The dash gauge shows like 28v but the digital dash gauge shows my chassis 12v (from vanner) and thats rock solid 13.8 all the time.

I just ordered a "smart" 30a 24/12 and will swap out one of the other 24/12 to see how it works. I just finally got a smart battery sense so hopefully will get my chassis battery voltage monitored in Victron just to be sure.

The 48v might just need fine tuned as that knob is a very small and is hard to see, plus there's 4 of them connected.
 
I think you are reaching 100% charge it's just that whatever device you have measuring charge isn't a smart shunt and hence doesn't know the battery is fully charged.

You need a smart shunt between the battery and ALL charging sources and loads.
 
I think you are reaching 100% charge it's just that whatever device you have measuring charge isn't a smart shunt and hence doesn't know the battery is fully charged.
No I have a Lynx shunt on the 48V system and a smartshunt on the 12V and monitor both while driving to be sure. Even in the above graph I was only 35% charged and it wasn't charging more than a few amps. Usually it'll slowly charge to around 70% then will just absorb the loads and not charge more.

I'm assuming since 15v is the max from the dc-dc and the eg4 rack batteries need 14v to charge its not getting high enough voltage. for 12V the converters have like 3ft wiring to the Lynx distribution then another 3 ft to the batteries.
 
Seems I might have been wrong. After pulling the 12v converters I found out the screwdriver didn't fit right so voltage adjuster was only half or so and go figure didn't find out until I swapped one out for the smart one. After turning it up it seems to be charging. Actually one 12v 70a orion was bringing in over 1000w for the whole 2 hour trip today with 800+ of it to AC loads and 200 charging the battery
 
Seems I might have been wrong. After pulling the 12v converters I found out the screwdriver didn't fit right so voltage adjuster was only half or so and go figure didn't find out until I swapped one out for the smart one. After turning it up it seems to be charging. Actually one 12v 70a orion was bringing in over 1000w for the whole 2 hour trip today with 800+ of it to AC loads and 200 charging the battery
Doh!
 
This was the best possible solution really. It IS annoying needing to have so many slightly different tiny flatheads around, so i feel that. ?
 
This was the best possible solution really. It IS annoying needing to have so many slightly different tiny flatheads around, so i feel that. ?
Also with the way they're mounted I can't see the screw and with the 12v the wiring covers it so it's all complicated. Wish they'd put it on top but oh well.

Plus the 30a smarts are 226 and the 70a are 131. So it would have been an $1000 vs 262 and finding a spot for 4 of those would be hard.

Also my 48v seem to derate as much as 25% (1200 vs 1600w) when running for an hour while the big orions which have a fan don't. I was getting more power from 1 12v orion over all 4 48v at times. Likely will be adding some fans in front
 
Also with the way they're mounted I can't see the screw and with the 12v the wiring covers it so it's all complicated. Wish they'd put it on top but oh well.

Plus the 30a smarts are 226 and the 70a are 131. So it would have been an $1000 vs 262 and finding a spot for 4 of those would be hard.

Also my 48v seem to derate as much as 25% (1200 vs 1600w) when running for an hour while the big orions which have a fan don't. I was getting more power from 1 12v orion over all 4 48v at times. Likely will be adding some fans in front

The adjuster screw is definitely a pain in the butt to get to.
 
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