Solved. When using a EG4 6000XP with grid assist, would that be considered grid tied and i have to deal with all the POCO interconnect nonsense?

[ScropusGobbleBottom]

Why does that matter to you?

Its matters because that is the thing that will make your inverter unhappy. Say you are running a window ac, fridge, and start an electric burner.

window Ac could be 500 watts running 1200 watts peak for 2 seconds
Burner could be 2000 watts at 2300 peak for 5 seconds.
Fridge Could be 120 watts running 800 watts peak for 3 seconds.

There are MANY combinations of start/ stop/ starts involved in these devices. When 2 peaks happen at the same time, problems start to show.
If you had a 3000 watt inverter it could run all of them provided the fridge didnt cycle and the ac was always on.

 

[Ampster]

Its matters because that is the thing that will make your inverter unhappy. ........

Makes sense for your situation. Almost all my loads are inverter driven internally which makes them essentially soft start so that is not a concern of mine. That includes my A/C heat pump and both refrigerators. My electric dryer and my electric oven do not have surge loads as far as I know and my EV chargers definitely do not, but none of thos devices are powered by my inverter anyway.
I think the best device for measuring peaks, especially short ones which the Emporia doesn't log, would be a logging Amp meter which can register those kind of peaks. I assume that is a one time need to know which loads in which sequence could be started when other loads are running? At least that is how I would approach it if surges were an issue on my system. I now realize this is an off grid thread and I should pay more attention the the section i am responding to so my comments are more in context.

 

[fmeili1]

Correct. The 6000XP does not have any "assist" function and does not "tie" directly to the grid AFAIK. It's an inverter with a built-in transfer switch. This makes for a very simple interconnect to a smallish "critical loads" or "solar output" panel with grid backup. OTOH I'd probably just go with a separate ATS if I had any plans to scale and/or I needed more than 25A, because it would simplify the overall design, and make it easier to visually see that you are not actually tied to the grid.

Yes, this is the difference e.g. compared to the "old" EG4-6500EX which is able to drive the load in parallel from grid, PV and battery - it's documented as "...Utility energy will supply power to the loads at the same time" for all three working modes SBU,SUB and USB.

Despite it I was able to tell the POCO that the inverter is not able to feed back energy to the grid and it has a grid "Power feedback protection" and luckily it was accepted by them with the following principle wiring chart.

 

[Darkwing]

You keep saying zero "export" which implies it ties to the grid. The 18Kpv can tie to the grid and set "zero-export". The 6000XP is incapable of grid-export, it allows grid backup for the solar/inverter. A subtle difference. If you truly don't need more than 25A of peak demand on any one leg I think the 6000XP is almost a no-brainer. What is your current panel? current service? I would guess 75-100A based on your comments.

With zero export i mean incapable of export. Was just hoping that this would have made it clear. Current panel is a 1980 200 amp cutler hammer. But that came with the house. I am dreaming of a span, but that is depending on my budget while redoing whole house. Unfortunate i dont have a inrush meter, so demand is still to determined. But as long the switch over to grid is UPS mike and my pc stays running, i couldnt care less. And over time i could add second box in case it happens to often

 

[Darkwing]

Yes, this is the difference e.g. compared to the "old" EG4-6500EX which is able to drive the load in parallel from grid, PV and battery - it's documented as "...Utility energy will supply power to the loads at the same time" for all three working modes SBU,SUB and USB.

Despite it I was able to tell the POCO that the inverter is not able to feed back energy to the grid and it has a grid "Power feedback protection" and luckily it was accepted by them with the following principle wiring chart.
View attachment 216060

Thats exaclty what i dont want...POCO involved. It is a power generating appliance without ability to feed grid, so i should not even have to talk to them. I also dont ask them if i add a generator or heat pump

 

[Darkwing]

Is there actually a split phase inverter out there that any of you can think of that does what the 6000xp does but with more output power? And maybe including the ups/grid sideload function? Cause in case the 6000watt are not enough as many state, what would be the next option up?
Still incapable of grid feeding of course but still with grid backup/usp/side loading functions

 

[ksmithaz1]

Is there actually a split phase inverter out there that any of you can think of that does what the 6000xp does but with more output power? And maybe including the ups/grid sideload function? Cause in case the 6000watt are not enough as many state, what would be the next option up?
Still incapable of grid feeding of course but still with grid backup/usp/side loading functions

"Parallel: Up to 16 units for a max of 96kWs of continuous AC power." The 18kpv or Solark 15K's can be tied, but there is no requirement to do that, I don't, and they both have about 50A of output instead of 25. They can also be stacked, I will likely end up with three. What exactly are you asking? You buy enough capacity for whatever your demand requires in increments of 25A.

 

[Darkwing]

"Parallel: Up to 16 units for a max of 96kWs of continuous AC power." The 18kpv or Solark 15K's can be tied, but there is no requirement to do that, I don't, and they both have about 50A of output instead of 25. They can also be stacked, I will likely end up with three. What exactly are you asking? You buy enough capacity for whatever your demand requires in increments of 25A.

Isn't the ability of an inverter to feed back into the grid already a problem? Or is the tieing of those mentioned inverters a physical step and not just software selection? If it is actually a physical thing that the backfeed lines are not the same as the ac input, i would prob dare to go that route.
But you seems to know better than me if that is the case.
Cant find much about it, thats why i am here
So thx alot for taking your time on this

 

[ksmithaz1]

Isn't the ability of an inverter to feed back into the grid already a problem? Or is the tieing of those mentioned inverters a physical step and not just software selection? If it is actually a physical thing that the backfeed lines are not the same as the ac input, i would prob dare to go that route.
But you seems to know better than me if that is the case.
Cant find much about it, thats why i am here
So thx alot for taking your time on this

There is either confusion on what you want or a communication breakdown.

These inverters don't have "INPUT" and "OUTPUT", spend a little time with the manual, you can download it online. The 6000XP is an off-grid inverter with a built in ATS. If you want to jack an inverter in to "help" feed the panel alongside connected to the same L1/L2 as the grid you need a grid-tied inverter, with certifications and permits and such.

Off grid means the output of the inverter is never physically tied to the grid. If you want to feed inverter output into your main panel, you will need to disconnect the grid from the panel while the inverter is connected. @fmeili1's diagram explains it better than words. The "Solar Generator" in the drawing can be whatever you want.

 

[Darkwing]

Ok...i think i got it...
Yes, i want a off grid inverter with either ATS build in in case i use to much or battery is dead/no sun.

Thx for the Clarification

 

[automatikdonn]

A DC coupled system should do what you are looking for. I wouldn't go with an AIO inverter because of the small backfeed they can do when in Solar / Utility / Battery mode.

A standalone inverter and standalone charge controller should fix this issue, but some may have a different experience or more knowledge to share about that kind of setup.

 

[Darkwing]

Thx for your input. What do you refer to when u say small backfeed? Do you mean that it only does 25 amps per phase?
I was actually looking at this thing because of the all in one(hopefully)hassle free and ats inside with <15ms switching time which is UPS grade.