Which Victron devices do I need for an off grid 12kW system?

[JRH]

I am a magnum person myself, but once you have used tier one products taking a step backwards is well... backwards. I think you would quickly regret that move even if the inverter lasted more than 3 or 4 years. just my thoughts.

Totally correct..
Stated First , there is a lot of great gear out there ….it just so happens my system consists of Victron , blue seas/ Marinco , MS , and —— batteries. ( I left out the name so the battery haters won’t key my truck ) ….
all wires ,fuses accessories and etc were the best and most robust I could locate and acquire.

Having to start from zero and learn as I went , it all got hooked up last spring…and tweaked all this year…. additions were added , lessons learned , more gear was added and more lessons learned…it is all working great ( but I need more of it this year) …..

BUT, all of my effort money and time went towards the future and progress , not fighting about something in the past I bought that melted or won’t work …or even get shipped.

everything I bought has done what it was supposed to do and much more…no exceptions …

Any problems I had were my fault ,or lack of knowledge , not the gear..!

Tier- one products generally cost more , but what’s the cost of your time and frustration sitting on hold with customer service that wiggles like a worm , waiting for an email that never comes , phone calls never answered , having equipment that messes with your brain…or doesnt work at all.

I have a lot more to learn ,and will continue to try, but it’s hard to move forward efficiently in any endeavor when your dealing with past issues that are dragging you back…
Just my old fashioned thought process about life …

J.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I would hazard we have fried our fair share of gear in our travels…. In one fell swoop I lost two BMS’s and a magnum 4448 to lightening strike damage that could have been avoided with some lightening SPD’s and a better grounding scheme could have prevented

 

[nesswill]

I'm planning on building an off grid 12kW system with 30kWh battery.

I was guessing I need an off grid inverter like the "Multiplus II 5000VA" and a solar charge controller like the "SmartSolar MPPT RS 450|100"; is this fine or is there anything else or anything better that I should consider?

I needed something similar to you and this is what i used in my totally off-grid system.

x2 Inverter RS Smart 48/6000 in parallel (i like redundancy) but not for you if you plan to sell back as some point in the future.
x3 SmartSolar MPPT RS 450/100 (leaves me room to expand if needed x40 550W panels currently)
x1 Cerbo GX
x1 SmartShunt
x1 1Kw Wind turbine (non-Victron)
90Kw of Battery @48v (non-Victron)
I have a genny as a backup. (DHY18KSEm) Not integrated into the Victron yet. (lack of time)

 

[cajocars]

I’ve tried the Victron MPPT calculator with a string of 8 Longi 555W and it says there are no MPPT available despite the max voltage being 447V (after accounting for low temp); why?

 

[bds70]

I am a magnum person myself, but once you have used tier one products taking a step backwards is well... backwards. I think you would quickly regret that move even if the inverter lasted more than 3 or 4 years. just my thoughts.

Nothing is fixed in concrete yet. I would appreciate if you could expand on your post. My biggest issue is that I am financially constrained being on an age pension ($500 AUD a week)

In order to change to new equipment I would have to sell everything I have, and get a decent price.

But if the upside was a better, more efficient system then it might be possible.

Happy to consider options.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Nothing is fixed in concrete yet. I would appreciate if you could expand on your post. My biggest issue is that I am financially constrained being on an age pension ($500 AUD a week)

In order to change to new equipment I would have to sell everything I have, and get a decent price.

But if the upside was a better, more efficient system then it might be possible.

Happy to consider options.

you already are using Victron. so any of the accessories you have will play nice with Victron. Victron has a very robust infrastructure and architecture. currently youa re 12 volt. but i would hazard that everything but the inverter could accommodate 24 volts, or 48 if you needed to expand. ask @sunshine_eggo he is one of the Smurf Masters so he would know better.

My comment was directly aimed at the AIO comment you made. presently Victron does not offer an AIO. this means something else... probably from Hong Kong or China...Taiwan if you are really lucky. that would be a step down in my opinion, as Victron is strong. once again I have no Victron products, but I recognize the effort they have made to make shit work together nicely. the next closest in my books is magnum all their stuff is plug and play, however they currently offer nothing to communicate with BMS's. this will soon change no doubt, but will it be backwards compatible. from my readings, all Victron is 100% backwards compatible... think Linux vs apple or windows (i know, i know both apple and windows proclaim to be pretty much backwards compatible.... horse hockey!

all this and I am not even a Smurf!.. trust me gong to anything chinese or dare i say it even sunny boy/sunny island would be a step back in connectivity.

just my thoughts, my opinion. YMMV.

i think leaving Victron and going another brand would be a step back even if you went to my favorite magnum. (I hope and pray magnum breaks away form Sensata, as this is the cause of their rot....)

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Nothing is fixed in concrete yet. I would appreciate if you could expand on your post. My biggest issue is that I am financially constrained being on an age pension ($500 AUD a week)

In order to change to new equipment I would have to sell everything I have, and get a decent price.

But if the upside was a better, more efficient system then it might be possible.

Happy to consider options.

addition to the above post. buying once while painful especially on a fixed budget, is much easier to swallow then 5 or 6 grand of "stuff" that does not play well together or constantly is causing you problems.

case in point. 3 weeks ago i ordered new Winston cells. I haves spent the last three week trying to pay the vendor, while my Japanese bank (corporate account, not private) has held the entire transaction up as they nitpick ne line after the other in regards to the wire transfer. you would think i was funding ISIS, or maybe the Gaza strip and the shitheads there. the way they have constantly blockaded me. and this has nothing to do with the equipment!

just imagine the issue you could have dealing with a vendor overseas where the languages do not match and the expectations are different. Victron is marketed towards English speaking countries, made by English speakers, and even though they have those pesky lawyers things... you speak the same language.

we have a member @ghostwriter66 who is ethnically Chinese (but US citizen) and she has fits over some of the shit they tell her... consider that... now compare that to my fits with a Japanese bank (once again a corporate account!) and the shit they have given me over the last three weeks. I have taken the route of last recourse...having my wife speak to them, which means My wife now knows that I am spending 12k on batteries (thank god its company money and not mine!) (tax write off as samples for training and experimenting on for eventual use as a proof of concept for sales purpose's). I had to bring in my wife FFS and they are still giving me shit.

 

[bds70]

you already are using Victron. so any of the accessories you have will play nice with Victron. Victron has a very robust infrastructure and architecture. currently youa re 12 volt. but i would hazard that everything but the inverter could accommodate 24 volts, or 48 if you needed to expand. ask @sunshine_eggo he is one of the Smurf Masters so he would know better.

My comment was directly aimed at the AIO comment you made. presently Victron does not offer an AIO. this means something else... probably from Hong Kong or China...Taiwan if you are really lucky. that would be a step down in my opinion, as Victron is strong. once again I have no Victron products, but I recognize the effort they have made to make shit work together nicely. the next closest in my books is magnum all their stuff is plug and play, however they currently offer nothing to communicate with BMS's. this will soon change no doubt, but will it be backwards compatible. from my readings, all Victron is 100% backwards compatible... think Linux vs apple or windows (i know, i know both apple and windows proclaim to be pretty much backwards compatible.... horse hockey!

all this and I am not even a Smurf!.. trust me gong to anything chinese or dare i say it even sunny boy/sunny island would be a step back in connectivity.

just my thoughts, my opinion. YMMV.

i think leaving Victron and going another brand would be a step back even if you went to my favorite magnum. (I hope and pray magnum breaks away form Sensata, as this is the cause of their rot....)

Got it. I thought U were advocating that Victron was a step backwards. My bad. I agree that for me it's only the two Multiplus Inverters, both 3000w but only 12v. Unfortunately a Quattro 5000va is around $3700 and a 8000va above $5k plus I would need about another $1500 for new cells and BMS etc.

I guess the old adage of "if it's working leave it be" is the way I will have to go. It's a pity because I love diy, I have taught myself carpentry, plumbing, electrical wiring, welding, spray painting, videography, video editing, diesel mechanics and other stuff over the years just because I could.

Tomorrow is another day. Lol
Cheers

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Got it. I thought U were advocating that Victron was a step backwards. My bad. I agree that for me it's only the two Multiplus Inverters, both 3000w but only 12v. Unfortunately a Quattro 5000va is around $3700 and a 8000va above $5k plus I would need about another $1500 for new cells and BMS etc.

I guess the old adage of "if it's working leave it be" is the way I will have to go. It's a pity because I love diy, I have taught myself carpentry, plumbing, electrical wiring, welding, spray painting, videography, video editing, diesel mechanics and other stuff over the years just because I could.

Tomorrow is another day. Lol
Cheers

While space may be a limitation, you could double your power with two more MP 3kVA.

 

[cajocars]

I’ve tried the Victron MPPT calculator with a string of 8 Longi 555W and it says there are no MPPT available despite the max voltage being 447V (after accounting for low temp); why?

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Brucey]

Around $1050-$1100 each last I looked

 

[Brucey]

Any thoughts on this?

View attachment 187065View attachment 187066

There's an upper limit with the rs450s. Eight times the float voltage of the battery bank I believe.

 

[green mountain boys]

Any thoughts on this.

Yes, your voltage need to be less than 435v or 8 x the float voltage. You can confirm this by adjusting the minimum temperature up and watch the maximum voltage decrease. It is easiest to see on the graph. Once it reaches about 435v you will make the calculator happy. You still must design your string for the lowest possible temperature at your location.

 

[green mountain boys]

I needed something similar to you and this is what i used in my totally off-grid system.

x2 Inverter RS Smart 48/6000 in parallel (i like redundancy) but not for you if you plan to sell back as some point in the future.
x3 SmartSolar MPPT RS 450/100 (leaves me room to expand if needed x40 550W panels currently)
x1 Cerbo GX
x1 SmartShunt
x1 1Kw Wind turbine (non-Victron)
90Kw of Battery @48v (non-Victron)
I have a genny as a backup. (DHY18KSEm) Not integrated into the Victron yet. (lack of time)

Could you share how you set up your strings?
What is your minimum design temperature?
I am curious because I have been looking to do something similar with the MPPT RS 450/100 or 200.
Thank you.

 

[cajocars]

There's an upper limit with the rs450s. Eight times the float voltage of the battery bank I believe.

Yes, your voltage need to be less than 435v or 8 x the float voltage. You can confirm this by adjusting the minimum temperature up and watch the maximum voltage decrease. It is easiest to see on the graph. Once it reaches about 435v you will make the calculator happy. You still must design your string for the lowest possible temperature at your location.

So if I want to approach 12kWp with a SmartSolar MPPT RS 450/200-Tr, I need to use all 4 trackers?
I thought I could get away with just 2 pairs of cables to run

 

[green mountain boys]

So if I want to approach 12kWp with a SmartSolar MPPT RS 450/200-Tr, I need to use all 4 trackers?
I thought I could get away with just 2 pairs of cables to run

What is the VOC of the panels?
What is your minimum expected temperature?
You probably are going to have 7 in series to stay below the voltage limit.
You can go over the 18A limit up to a maximum of 30 amps.
There is a limit of 4000w per tracker
11,520W maximum so you will use all 4 trackers and be slightly over-paneled.

 

[cajocars]

What is the VOC of the panels?
What is your minimum expected temperature?
You probably are going to have 7 in series to stay below the voltage limit.
You can go over the 18A limit up to a maximum of 30 amps.
There is a limit of 4000w per tracker
11,520W maximum so you will use all 4 trackers and be slightly over-paneled.

Voc is 49.95V and Isc is 14.04A
So I could have two strings of 7 in parallel and go up to 28.08A even if the calculator says I can’t?

 

[green mountain boys]

I believe you can BUT it is not a good idea. Here is why...
Look at the data sheet for "Max DC output charging power" = 4,000w per tracker and 5760W total! for the 450/100.

I think you should get the MPPT RS 450/200 and use all 4 trackers with 7s on each tracker.
Then you will have the full 11,520W output of that unit.

 

[green mountain boys]

This is why you can go up to 30A
This is from page 8 of the Victron manual for the MPPT RS 450/100-200

"The maximum operational input current for each tracker is 18 A.
MPPT PV inputs are protected against reverse polarity, to a maximum short circuit current of 20 A for each tracker.
Connecting PV arrays with a higher short circuit current is possible, up to an absolute maximum of 30A, as long as connected
with correct polarity. This outside of specification potential allows for system designers to connect larger arrays, and can be useful
to understand in case a certain panel configuration results in a short circuit current just slightly above the maximum of the reverse
polarity protection circuit"

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Voc is 49.95V and Isc is 14.04A
So I could have two strings of 7 in parallel and go up to 28.08A even if the calculator says I can’t?

If your goal is to over-panel knowing that you'll be wasting anything over 18A or 4000W per MPPT, this is fine.