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diy solar

Wire sizing confusion

Pana

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May 2, 2024
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Australia
Hello

I have a 3000w inverter for a 12v system i will be running 2 strings of 3 x 190w panels in series and connect them both in parallel.i aslo have a victron mppt150/70tr. I am strugling to work out my cable size from the battery to inverter. The place i bought the stuff from told me that 8mm twin cable will do.
I have done some research myself and i am coming up with at least a 00 cable can anyone help me please.

Lets say the distance between battery and inverter is 1 mtr
 
250A @ 12V w/copper stranded THHN in open air= 1/0 ok, 2/0 better. That said, #1 (AWG) welding cable should be perfect. Sorry, I only do metric on my Hondas.
Thanks for the info can you dumb it down a little for me as i am still learning is a 2/0 the same as 00? and this wire is only between the inverter and battery?
 
Hello

I have a 3000w inverter for a 12v system i will be running 2 strings of 3 x 190w panels in series and connect them both in parallel.i aslo have a victron mppt150/70tr. I am strugling to work out my cable size from the battery to inverter. The place i bought the stuff from told me that 8mm twin cable will do.
I have done some research myself and i am coming up with at least a 00 cable can anyone help me please.

Lets say the distance between battery and inverter is 1 mtr
What are you running on the inverter?
What is the max wattage load, and the average wattage load?
 
A few variables to consider here.

Load
Duration of the load
Battery bank size
Minimum voltage draw from bank

If the load rarely exceeds 1200W, and the bank is large enough that the solar keeps it full when loads are pulling smaller wiring can be safe feeding the inverter.

If the bank is small such that frequently the bank will dip into lower voltages, and you pull close to max wattage from the inverter, you better size the wire for max amperage... 3000W at 10V is 300A...
 
A few variables to consider here.

Load
Duration of the load
Battery bank size
Minimum voltage draw from bank

If the load rarely exceeds 1200W, and the bank is large enough that the solar keeps it full when loads are pulling smaller wiring can be safe feeding the inverter.

If the bank is small such that frequently the bank will dip into lower voltages, and you pull close to max wattage from the inverter, you better size the wire for max amperage... 3000W at 10V is 300A...
i am just running a couple of led lights at night and a tv 240volts and a camping fridge i dont even think i would get to 1000w at this stage 1 batt 300ah kings lithium the frige will rall all the time but lights and tv only at night for a few hours i was told i should have put 2 batt instead of 1
 
It is best not undersize wiring to an inverter (unless there is also a smaller rated fuse selected for the wire size at the battery bank itself) as it can cause false triggering of the undervoltage circuits in the inverter...

As you are in Australia, don't use AWG (most stockists won't have anything marked in it lol)
A fully loaded 3000w inverter running at a nominal 12v will be pulling a bit more than 250A
This is a reasonably heavy load and will require a 95mm2 cable or larger to prevent voltage drop causing false 'low voltage' triggering by the inverters cutout on peak current draws...
(even small loads can cause quite high initial peaks on turning on, and undersized cables can cause the inverter to 'switch off' early as the voltage is dropped because of the undersized cables)

The quickest and cheapest way to get some is go down to the local Supercheap Auto store or Repco store and pick up a set of 1m premade 'battery starter leads'- they will have a rack of them already premade, with either 'lug to lug' or 'lug to battery terminal' available, in various lengths...
Already made up, choose the length you need for your setup, and walk out with them...
A 1m one will set you back about $30-$40...
 
It is best not undersize wiring to an inverter (unless there is also a smaller rated fuse selected for the wire size at the battery bank itself) as it can cause false triggering of the undervoltage circuits in the inverter...

As you are in Australia, don't use AWG (most stockists won't have anything marked in it lol)
A fully loaded 3000w inverter running at a nominal 12v will be pulling a bit more than 250A
This is a reasonably heavy load and will require a 95mm2 cable or larger to prevent voltage drop causing false 'low voltage' triggering by the inverters cutout on peak current draws...
(even small loads can cause quite high initial peaks on turning on, and undersized cables can cause the inverter to 'switch off' early as the voltage is dropped because of the undersized cables)

The quickest and cheapest way to get some is go down to the local Supercheap Auto store or Repco store and pick up a set of 1m premade 'battery starter leads'- they will have a rack of them already premade, with either 'lug to lug' or 'lug to battery terminal' available, in various lengths...
Already made up, choose the length you need for your setup, and walk out with them...
A 1m one will set you back about $30-$40...
Thanks bop

I was going to go to Jaycar and get what i need i was told a 00 cable should do the trick but i cant find the correct table online so i can see what can handle at least 300amps i was going to put a 300amp fuse on the positive in the battery also
 
Not sure Jaycar stock cables that big, but 'ye old starter motor cable' is quite adequate for the job, and a lot cheaper through Supercheap...
 
Not sure Jaycar stock cables that big, but 'ye old starter motor cable' is quite adequate for the job, and a lot cheaper through Supercheap...
they do sell them just by going by your calculations you said i am over paneld i might just run a 2s2p so i dont have to change controler.
 
With a Victron 150/70
With a 3S array configuration, as long as the individual panel Voc's are under 50v Voc each, then a 3S string is fine...
on a 12v battery bank voltage however, the Victron at 70A can only handle up approximately 900w of panels however (so yes you are over paneled with 1140w)- you can overpanel the Victron safely to a certain degree (if you give me the panels specs (Voc, Isc, Vmp and Imp I can run the exact numbers for the 150/70) and if you have either lots of overcast weather, or long periods of extended high temperatures, there may even be an advantage in doing so, but just be aware that because of its about 900w limit, during peak production time, it will go into 'clipping' and you won't see the full 1140w of theory limit...

(in those poor generating times, you will see an increased output with the 3S2P array over the 2S2P, just in the better conditions the controller itself will be the limiting factor and cap production before the full potential of the array is reached...)

If you already have all this stuff, then yes, you could still go ahead with the 3S2P array and use it, you just won't get as good an output as 'the numbers' suggest in peak production times (but get a better result in poor generating times)- solars is not a 'hard and fast' numbers thing

Where (approximately) in Australia are you ie what works well in say Vic, not so much in northern Qld...
 
With a Victron 150/70
With a 3S array configuration, as long as the individual panel Voc's are under 50v Voc each, then a 3S string is fine...
on a 12v battery bank voltage however, the Victron at 70A can only handle up approximately 900w of panels however (so yes you are over paneled with 1140w)- you can overpanel the Victron safely to a certain degree (if you give me the panels specs (Voc, Isc, Vmp and Imp I can run the exact numbers for the 150/70) and if you have either lots of overcast weather, or long periods of extended high temperatures, there may even be an advantage in doing so, but just be aware that because of its about 900w limit, during peak production time, it will go into 'clipping' and you won't see the full 1140w of theory limit...

(in those poor generating times, you will see an increased output with the 3S2P array over the 2S2P, just in the better conditions the controller itself will be the limiting factor and cap production before the full potential of the array is reached...)

If you already have all this stuff, then yes, you could still go ahead with the 3S2P array and use it, you just won't get as good an output as 'the numbers' suggest in peak production times (but get a better result in poor generating times)- solars is not a 'hard and fast' numbers thing

Where (approximately) in Australia are you ie what works well in say Vic, not so much in nort
 
I have decided to go with 2s2p configi have posted a diagram of my setup not sure if you can have a look and check my maths regarding the fuses and breakers and also need to double check wire sizes for the whole thing
 

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Check the panels for their recommended fuse rating for that '10A' fuse (most 190w panels have a 15A or higher recommended fuse, depending on the exact panel specs (Isc etc)- its usually written on the label on the back of the panel
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The panels breaker would be that fuse rating x2 (and located at the victron, not the panels as suggested by your diagram)
Your 300A fuse at the inverter is pretty low- its ok, but you may need to 'precharge' the inverter when connecting or if high surge currents if it is loaded right to its max anytime in the future- a 3kw HF inverter could sustain peaks of up to 6kw for about half a second, a LF 3kw peaks of up to 9kw for up to 20 seconds... (your Kings 3kw is a HF btw so a 6kw 'peak' for up to half a second during which that fuse could see over 500A...)
(precharging is where you use a current limited supply to precharge the inverters filter capacitors before connecting to the main battery supply, it becomes important when you step up to the 10kw and higher range, but with your fuse only rated at 300A, you are at the lower end of what would be acceptable for a 3kw inverter)

The wiring doesn't need to be 1000v stuff, the 600v cable is quite ok (indeed many gridtie systems use standard '240v mains' TPE in Australia (which has a 600v rating- but it does have to be run in PVC conduit as it isn't UV stabilised) as the panels on a gridtie need to need to be earthed , so the TPE's earth cable comes in handy for that). An offgrid system- well there's no 'legal' requirement to run an earth (offgrid is pretty much open slather lol- there are regs, but literally almost no enforcement on them here), but earthing the panels frames is a good idea anyway- it can dissipate static buildup in thunderstorms, which can damage the charge controllers input circuitry... TPE is the standard 'building cable' run in the walls to powerpoints, and standard 2.5mm TPE will be perfect for your array size as long as the run is under 25m- or just use standard PV cables (3mm or 4mm are the most common size and fine)

The starter' cables are 'slightly' oversized for the job (not a bad thing, means less voltage drop in the cables)- but they are cheap and already come with lugs precrimped (a proper crimper to 'diy' can be pretty pricey) and are available in 'lug to lug' or 'lug to battery terminal'

Supercheap Auto (cheapest)
Repco (a bit more expensive), and even Bunnings stock some cables (although their range is quite limited and not all stores carry them in stock) Autobarn also have a reasonable range, but aren't as common as the other three
 
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