Wiring from SMA Sunny Boy to (2) SMA Sunny Islands to sub panel

[road glide]

I have a SMA Sunny boy GTI (SB5.0-1SP-US-41) with 6400w PV array. We are split phase 120/240v USA ...It is wired all conductors THHN-TNNN 8awg thru sched40 one inch conduit 80-90 feet to barn sub panel. 30amp DP breaker for PV array in the barn sub panel. Sub panel is rated at 100amp.

The sub panel is wired to the house panel 300 feet away with 4 AWG conductors in 2 inch sched40. ......50 amp DP breaker in house panel.

Considering adding two 6048 Sunny Islands at sub panel in barn storage area where panel is located. Battery bank would be in ventilated storage area near Islands..
I know my "41" can be used for OFF-GRID...but not battery backup...We just had another outage yesterday and one for 5 days a week ago in the California Sierra Mountains....If this keeps happening (especially this coming summer) I would code the Sunny Boy to "Island" and shut off the main from the Power company.

I have downloaded the SMA Sunny Island manual. (244 pages)

I've viewed many images of Sunny Island installs and the AC1 connections look like my 8 awg conductors...I have 8awg conductors from array to sub panel and those would need to be connected to the SI's for AC coupling, I believe...
Would be nice to use the solar trailer panels/modules to add another 2400k to my 6400) but my SB would clip out at 5k.

I am one of many who just bought a DC Solar trailer model "H"... 2014 model with 10 Talesun 240's, cabinet with 2 SI 6048's, MS combiner and charge controller and the usual 240/120 outlets. NO Kubota gen but I have a LP/Gas 11k (lp 7500 running) if need be...
Like the others I am currently nursing the GNB Tubular batteries(not classic) to see if they will come back....If not I will probably go to an AGM configuration....The trailer and equipment look virtually unused. There is no wear or tear on the cabinet, trailer, panels, tires...etc but it was sitting. When I got it the batteries have water just above the plates but testing with hydrometer and multi meter they are down below one volt....Should be 2-2.5v each cell.

So my question is:
1) Is my wiring conductors 8awg to the sub panel and 4awg to main panel sufficient?
2) Is there a way to wire both arrays to the SI's and have 8800 watts avail? I would leave the MS controller, combiner for the smaller DC trailer array..
PS...I know at some point Hedges will see this and I want to thank him and the forum for the valuable info the last few months

 

[Solar Tech]

This is a drawing i made for a recent install




i use 6 ga on the sunny island ac1 and 2
8ga is okay for the sunnyboys
Why cant the 41 be used in battery backup mode?
If you have a ground mount then you wouldn't need rapid shutdown.
Sps mode wont work with some rapid shutdown methods but otherwise set the 41 to the California Freq/watt grid setting and it wont ever know its hooked to a sunny island or the grid.
The sunny island changes the freq to regulate the sunnyboy output and thats what "the grid can do now too"

 

[road glide]

1) 40 & 41 not for Battery BU according to SMA....attached file

2) I used 8awg for Sunny Boy AC traveling 80 ft to 30 amp DP breaker at Sub panel in barn
2a) I used 8awg to wire AC coupling (Sunny boy to Sunny Island Master and Slave - AC1)
2b) I used 6awg from Square D sub panel in cabinet on DC Solar trailer to hard wire to my barn subpanel...I was not enthused about them using 10 ga on a 50 max 240 circuit
3) I used 10awg for PV array into Square D DC safety switch/knife switch - with 600 DC fuses - strings 8-6-6 (20x320 Jinko premium wired in series)
4) 10awg from Square D knife switch into SB 5kw....(I know, I know SB has DC disconnect)
5) I am aware of rapid shut off and with my Ground mount it is OFF in the User Interface...
6) I would never go through the trouble of installing the SPS mode. 2k in the daylite??? We have a motorhome with a 7500 watt ONAN diesel generator if power goes out

PS...these DC solar trailers are wired 6 awg at AC1 both master and slave to the inside cabinet Square D subpanel with (LOAD) two - 50 amp 240 volt DP breakers and one 20 amp SP 120v. The AC2 sides (GEN/GRID) on the Sunny Island is wired 6awg to a 50amp california style (Hubbell) female on back of cabinet. SI'S configured for Generator

 

[Solar Tech]

1) 40 & 41 not for Battery BU according to SMA....attached file

2) I used 8awg for Sunny Boy AC traveling 80 ft to 30 amp DP breaker at Sub panel in barn
2a) I used 8awg to wire AC coupling (Sunny boy to Sunny Island Master and Slave - AC1)
2b) I used 6awg from Square D sub panel in cabinet on DC Solar trailer to hard wire to my barn subpanel...I was not enthused about them using 10 ga on a 50 max 240 circuit
3) I used 10awg for PV array into Square D DC safety switch/knife switch - with 600 DC fuses - strings 8-6-6 (20x320 Jinko premium wired in series)
4) 10awg from Square D knife switch into SB 5kw....(I know, I know SB has DC disconnect)
5) I am aware of rapid shut off and with my Ground mount it is OFF in the User Interface...
6) I would never go through the trouble of installing the SPS mode. 2k in the daylite??? We have a motorhome with a 7500 watt ONAN diesel generator if power goes out

PS...these DC solar trailers are wired 6 awg at AC1 both master and slave to the inside cabinet Square D subpanel with (LOAD) two - 50 amp 240 volt DP breakers and one 20 amp SP 120v. The AC2 sides (GEN/GRID) on the Sunny Island is wired 6awg to a 50amp california style (Hubbell) female on back of cabinet. SI'S configured for Generator

Seems like thats a cover their ass document
For the grid interactive code
But like i said any grid code that is freq/watt compliant will work without communication.
I have to set Enphase up like this when its ac coupled with other inverters.

 

[YellowBuddy]

I have a SMA Sunny boy GTI (SB5.0-1SP-US-41) with 6400w PV array. We are split phase 120/240v USA ...It is wired all conductors THHN-TNNN 8awg thru sched40 one inch conduit 80-90 feet to barn sub panel. 30amp DP breaker for PV array in the barn sub panel.

Sub panel is rated at 100amp.

The sub panel is wired to the house panel 300 feet away with 4 AWG conductors in 2 inch sched40. ......50 amp DP breaker in house panel.

This is a weird one. 50DP breaker in the house that feeds the sub right? 4 AWG AL or CU?

I've viewed many images of Sunny Island installs and the AC1 connections look like my 8 awg conductors...I have 8awg conductors from array to sub panel and those would need to be connected to the SI's for AC coupling, I believe...

Installation manual calls for 4 AWG copper.

So my question is:
1) Is my wiring conductors 8awg to the sub panel and 4awg to main panel sufficient?

Stepping down to 8AWG would limit you to 50A and the SI's have a 56A pass through capability. You would need to configure it appropriately and install a OCPD correctly to accommodate that reduction.

2) Is there a way to wire both arrays to the SI's and have 8800 watts avail? I would leave the MS controller, combiner for the smaller DC trailer array..
PS...I know at some point Hedges will see this and I want to thank him and the forum for the valuable info the last few months

Try another manual/firmware version?

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SB-OffGrid-TI-US-en-22.pdf

 

[road glide]

This is a weird one. 50DP breaker in the house that feeds the sub right? 4 AWG AL or CU?

Read it again....no the sub panel (rated at 100amps but not maxed) has a 50 amp DP that goes to main panel via 4Awg THHN/TNNN (main is 100amp) The highest load recorded on that run is 31Amps...

Installation manual calls for 4 AWG copper.

No...that is the maximum wire size that is allowed. Page 49 item 1 in the 244 page SMA Sunny Island 6048-4548 manual (AC1 Sunny Island is for loads and Sunny Boy, AC2 gen or grid)

Stepping down to 8AWG would limit you to 50A and the SI's have a 56A pass through capability. You would need to configure it appropriately and install a OCPD correctly to accommodate that reduction.

The nominal amperage is 21 at 240 volts and 24 at 208 volts. Page 66 SMA Sunny Boy 5.0k specs...SO, a 30 amp DP breaker get's it done safely.
"Stepping down to 8AWG would limit you to 50A" Nope that would be 40amps, 6 awg would take care of 50amps..

Try another manual/firmware version?

What manual or firmware version would you suggest? Does one deviate from SMA specs and guidelines?
This thread is 5 months old. We have moved on......Do you have SMA products? The Sunny Island is 244 pages and the Sunny Boy is 72 pages...You can download those free of charge unless you already have manuals...

 

[YellowBuddy]

The nominal amperage is 21 at 240 volts and 24 at 208 volts. Page 66 SMA Sunny Boy 5.0k specs...SO, a 30 amp DP breaker get's it done safely.

That's your SB and your SB only. If you're going to be doing a grid-tied installation with battery backup which is what your original post seemed to want to do then you should be sizing beyond just the SB.

"Stepping down to 8AWG would limit you to 50A" Nope that would be 40amps, 6 awg would take care of 50amps..

If you're using aluminum. Not with copper.

What manual or firmware version would you suggest? Does one deviate from SMA specs and guidelines?

No, I suggest you keep up to date with the SMA specs and guidelines not deviate from them. The version you linked in your post is version 2.1 for your SB inverter. The one I linked in version 2.2, a more recent one that shows backup is supported in an attempt to guide you towards something that you seemed to be looking for.

This thread is 5 months old. We have moved on......Do you have SMA products? The Sunny Island is 244 pages and the Sunny Boy is 72 pages...You can download those free of charge unless you already have manuals...

Yes I've had mine for 7 years now running a professionally installed 6048US + 4548US split phase grid tied with 2x SB-TL-5000-22.

After studying that for years and reading through multiple manuals extensively I self installed a separate self installed double split phase 4 x 5048US with a DC generator, grid tied as well and phase shifting with Solar Edge inverters. Both are coded, permitted, and inspected.

Glad you found what you needed, thank you for your expert advice on where to find manuals.

 

[road glide]

Well..my hats off to you. Seriously. You are way ahead of me. I would never use aluminum, always copper.. I have the original owners manual from my SB 5.0-1SP-US-41. Bottom front page reads: "SBxx-1SP-US-41-IA-xx-10 | 117821-00.01 | Version 1.0" (Came with the inverter)
To my knowledge that's the latest version but I will pursue looking for 2.2 as far as guidlines....(Is that for Sunny Boy Storage? I believe currently that is all that is available for 40 and 41 (mine)

 

[etatdiysolar]

Solar Tech, Can you explain how the SI is setup to charge the GYLL batteries? From what I gather setting them up as anything but lithium will result in poor battery usage and setting up as lithium requires a can bus BMS communicating with the Sunny Islands?? Thanks!

 

[BushMan2000U]

View attachment 43580
This is a drawing i made for a recent install



View attachment 43581
View attachment 43582i use 6 ga on the sunny island ac1 and 2
8ga is okay for the sunnyboys
Why cant the 41 be used in battery backup mode?
If you have a ground mount then you wouldn't need rapid shutdown.
Sps mode wont work with some rapid shutdown methods but otherwise set the 41 to the California Freq/watt grid setting and it wont ever know its hooked to a sunny island or the grid.
The sunny island changes the freq to regulate the sunnyboy output and thats what "the grid can do now too"

Are you able to do closed loop with your batterie EGLL