Wiring from transfer switch to breaker box and wiring from charge controller to battery Bank questions.

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

AC side of the thread first. I'm wanting to run wiring from my breaker box to my transfer switch in my power room. I have a roll of 6/3 stranded copper. I was going to put that inside of some 3/4 " MC it seems to fit well with extra room and the MC slides over the 6/3 easily. My question is on my transfer switch I already stubbed 1 1/4 " gray PVC into the Attic if I run the 6/3 in MC from the breaker box completely into the transfer switch through the 1 1/4 " gray PVC will that still be acceptable as safe? Would that break any codes? Would be double piped for 3 ft from the attic into the transfer switch.( inverter is capable of 47 amps at 120v the generator will be capable of 40 amps at 240v)

Second part is on the DC side I'm going to be making battery cables to run from the Victron rs450/200 to my battery Bank. The Victron is capable of putting out 200 amps. I believe the inverter draw at maximum capacity is 176 amps. A friend gave me a roll of cable over 10 years ago that is battery cable of some kind. The roll was nearly empty from being a full roll but I figure there's got to be 20 ft or more. It's red and in the picture I'm comparing it to a 1/0 cable it seems to be 15% to 20% bigger would that make it 0/0 cable? The cable is not labeled at all... I'm thinking if it's battery cable and it's bigger than 1/0 shouldn't it be able to carry 200 amps safely? Last question, I'm going to be holding up a battery terminal that is a solder on I had some of these that were for 2/0 wire where can I find some like these for 0/0 cable ? I'd like to solder on my own ends and heat shrink wrap them. Thanks for reading and replying. GW

 

[HRTKD]

I would not use cable that you don't know the specs for.

That lug looks like a crimp lug to me. I've never encountered a solder lug. Most of us are crimping connections. Those of us in a mobile environment are not using solder for any connections.

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

I would not use cable that you don't know the specs for.

That lug looks like a crimp lug to me. I've never encountered a solder lug. Most of us are crimping connections. Those of us in a mobile environment are not using solder for any connections.

It's a shame that cable is not labeled it's pretty good size cable. I'm surprised more people don't solder the lugs. I've made many battery cables soldering them sometimes I think they get a better connection to the to the wire.
Here's a few cables I made to go from the DC rectifier to the battery Bank for charging Off the Grid. And the lugs were soldered and they seemed to work quite well. Those were two gauge cables I believe the most they will ever see is 45 amps.
I did find some of those bigger lugs on eBay from from a wind and solar place and they actually list them as crimp or solder.

 

[629658]

Multiple threads on solder vs crimp. I used to agree with soldering but not anymore.

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

Multiple threads on solder vs crimp. I used to agree with soldering but not anymore.

Thanks for that reply, I'll have to look into it I have read on Automotive stuff( I do that for a living I'm an ASE Master Tech) they recommend crimping over soldering because if your wire does have an overload you do have a chance of heating it up and desoldering the Union of the wire to the lug but when I have soldered these lugs before I used an oversized lug put extra solder in it, I guess I'll have to look into crimping it seems like the crimping tools would be expensive? The majority of the cables I have already used were actually pre-made I've made just a very few and the ones I have made did not carry much load now the cables in question could carry as much as 200 amps from the controller to the battery Bank and the wire itself is in question I do think it is 2/0 cable but no identifying marks to tell you the heat range or anything I wonder if it might be more feasible just to buy two premade 2/0 cables to go from the controller to the battery Bank. I think my biggest problem right now as many have already shelled out so much money! I'm scrounging in the garage to find anything I can use in that roll of 2/0 wire sure is tempting because it's free..

 

[HRTKD]

it seems like the crimping tools would be expensive?

It depends on what you consider "expensive". It also depends on what wire sizes you need to crimp. I have an hydraulic crimper from TEMCo Industrial that has good reviews here on the forum. The kit has a number of dies. My kit that I bought almost three years ago is similar to the TH0400 kit, but mine had a larger set of dies. Now, you buy the kit with a smaller set of common dies and buy the other dies as needed.

Tools - Cutters & Crimpers - Crimpers - Page 1 - TEMCo Industrial

temcoindustrial.com

 

[629658]

Thanks for that reply, I'll have to look into it I have read on Automotive stuff( I do that for a living I'm an ASE Master Tech) they recommend crimping over soldering because if your wire does have an overload you do have a chance of heating it up and desoldering the Union of the wire to the lug but when I have soldered these lugs before I used an oversized lug put extra solder in it, I guess I'll have to look into crimping it seems like the crimping tools would be expensive? The majority of the cables I have already used were actually pre-made I've made just a very few and the ones I have made did not carry much load now the cables in question could carry as much as 200 amps from the controller to the battery Bank and the wire itself is in question I do think it is 2/0 cable but no identifying marks to tell you the heat range or anything I wonder if it might be more feasible just to buy two premade 2/0 cables to go from the controller to the battery Bank. I think my biggest problem right now as many have already shelled out so much money! I'm scrounging in the garage to find anything I can use in that roll of 2/0 wire sure is tempting because it's free..

I used one like this

UTZIKO Hydraulic Cable Lug Crimper 10 US TON 12 AWG to 00 (2/0) Electrical Terminal Cable Wire Tool Kit with 9 Die (12awg~00awg Crimping Tool+Cut) https://a.co/d/9LcK9Ln

Did a decent job took 3-4 crimps per lug to make them all nice and even.

In a nutshell two issues with soldering getting enough heat on big wire and then strand breakage at the junction at the solder line.

Research cold welded crimps. After a lot of thought I think they are superior. With a good crimp and good adhesive heat shrink I think it would be considered waterproof.

Just my opinion but I’m might high on Ancor brand cable and lugs. All tinned copper, UL listed and top quality.

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

It depends on what you consider "expensive". It also depends on what wire sizes you need to crimp. I have an hydraulic crimper from TEMCo Industrial that has good reviews here on the forum. The kit has a number of dies. My kit that I bought almost three years ago is similar to the TH0400 kit, but mine had a larger set of dies. Now, you buy the kit with a smaller set of common dies and buy the other dies as needed.

Tools - Cutters & Crimpers - Crimpers - Page 1 - TEMCo Industrial

temcoindustrial.com

Thank you so much for that link I'm going to look into that. So I am nearly at the tail end of the back up power room build. as far as needing to make cables I'm half tempted to just buy the last few cables I need to finish the Dc side. Soon I'll be working on the grid tie side which will be a completely seperate Fronius 12.5 primo grid tie system there will be no DC involved in that part of the install and I believe it's all going to be bare wires to terminal blocks. So in your opinion only having a few cables left that I need would it even be worthwhile to invest in a wire crimp kit?

 

[629658]

Thank you so much for that link I'm going to look into that. So I am nearly at the tail end of the back up power room build. as far as needing to make cables I'm half tempted to just buy the last few cables I need to finish the Dc side. Soon I'll be working on the grid tie side which will be a completely seperate Fronius 12.5 primo grid tie system there will be no DC involved in that part of the install and I believe it's all going to be bare wires to terminal blocks. So in your opinion only having a few cables left that I need would it even be worthwhile to invest in a wire crimp kit?

Well factory made cables are probably superior although if you take your time and do it right maybe not. You just need to make sure all your cables are equal length. I made a lot of crimps on my project.

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

I used one like this

UTZIKO Hydraulic Cable Lug Crimper 10 US TON 12 AWG to 00 (2/0) Electrical Terminal Cable Wire Tool Kit with 9 Die (12awg~00awg Crimping Tool+Cut) https://a.co/d/9LcK9Ln

Did a decent job took 3-4 crimps per lug to make them all nice and even.

In a nutshell two issues with soldering getting enough heat on big wire and then strand breakage at the junction at the solder line.

Research cold welded crimps. After a lot of thought I think they are superior. With a good crimp and good adhesive heat shrink I think it would be considered waterproof.

Just my opinion but I’m might high on Ancor brand cable and lugs. All tinned copper, UL listed and top quality.

Definitely looks like you made a lot of crimps there I did make bus bars on my batteries out of copper bars they're huge and there's not a single cable on the batteries they are totally bus barn to each other and to the main bus bars all using copper bars, and when I had gotten that xantrix inverter case years ago that held two inverters it came with a a bunch of pre-made 4/0 cables pre-made cables. By today's prices I nearly got that inverter case for free I think I gave $350 for it on eBay over 10 years ago it came with so many cables and Breakers and and DC equipment. I did order some quality tinned lugs from Windy Nation. I was looking for those lugs I did see three or four different ads from anchor I guess if I was able to crimp them I might be better off I'm half tempted to get the crimper tool crimp the cables and then monitor the temperature of them under full loads and see if they're going to be okay I would think if the wires do not heat up under full load they would be fine for long-term use I imagine if I was able to use that roll of 2/0 cable I could probably pay for the crimper. And I guess if they don't pass inspection I can always buy some name brand listed cable.

 

[629658]

I did order some quality tinned lugs from Windy Nation. I was looking for those lugs I did see three or four different ads from anchor I guess if I was able to crimp them I might be better off I'm half tempted to get the crimper tool crimp the cables and then monitor the temperature of them under full loads and see if they're going to be okay I would think if the wires do not heat up under full load they would be fine for long-term use I imagine if I was able to use that roll of 2/0 cable I could probably pay for the crimper. And I guess if they don't pass inspection I can always buy some name brand listed cable.

Honestly, I doubt they would notice anything you used on the DC side. I just passed re-inspection yesterday. Most inspectors know almost nothing about DC. AC is a different story however.

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

Honestly, I doubt they would notice anything you used on the DC side. I just passed re-inspection yesterday. Most inspectors know almost nothing about DC. AC is a different story however.

That is so true but this backup power room won't even be inspected I don't think because they're going to inspect the grid tie system and this one is completely separate and truly hidden if you were at the breaker box all you would see is a built-in interlock on the breaker cover that says Grid or generator. I just want to make sure all the cables are up to par with the amperage. And I can get a little OCD at timed LOL

 

[629658]

That is so true but this backup power room won't even be inspected I don't think because they're going to inspect the grid tie system and this one is completely separate and truly hidden if you were at the breaker box all you would see is a built-in interlock on the breaker cover that says Grid or generator. I just want to make sure all the cables are up to par with the amperage. And I'm can get a little OCD LOL

Understand completely. I went 4/0 on everything which was overkill although it’s installed and operating fantastic. I also don’t have to worry about burning the place down hopefully.

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

Understand completely. I went 4/0 on everything which was overkill although it’s installed and operating fantastic. I also don’t have to wor

It's definitely good to be on the safe side, the last two cables I need are from the charge controller to the battery Bank I think I'll just get some pre-made cables that are 2/0 then that will complete the DC side except for bringing the solar in which the arrays aren't even up yet. This weekend I will be tying the power room to the breaker box I'll be running the 6/3 MC through the Attic down to the breaker box and into the interlock breaker. That will complete the power room I will have a giant backup power source after that. Then I will start working on the front of the house the Fronius grid tie inverter will be mounted next to the breaker box and will be side tapped I'm going to mount a big Channel under that for the solar to come into and go to the inverter so when the inspector comes he'll actually be outside the house inspecting the arrays and the AC side of the grid tie. He will be totally unaware of the power room even exists unless he wants to see the other end of the generator input. Cross my fingers he doesn't ask but if he does I'm pretty sure it would pass an inspection. I tried to do everything to code as I understand it.

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

Power room as of this weekend, had just finished cooling fan upgrade for the Transformer and the inverter case and mounted the victron equipment which I'm really digging. I called it a power room. It's more like a power closet. When my daughter moved out I converted her room to a workout room. The walk in closet has now become my power room.

 

[629658]

Power room as of this weekend, had just finished cooling fan upgrade for the Transformer and the inverter case and mounted the victron equipment which I'm really digging. I called a power room it's more like a power closet when my daughter moved out I converted her room to a workout room and to walk in closet and has now become my power room.

Damn I thought mine looked great now I’m ashamed. Looks great and I’m a little jealous.

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

Thanks I really appreciate that, you're the first person that has commented on my system, that really made me feel good totally made my day , yeah I like your system it's definitely a clean install. Looks very professionally done. I think mine definitely has a lot more of a different look than what most systems seem to look like I really like the fact that my inverters are in that power module and it makes it look so clean. So how are you liking your Solark ??? I'm curious about the output and how well it's been working for you. I bought these xantrex inverters over 12 or 13 years ago and was going to install them but they no longer had the UL rating for grid tie so I decided to maybe get a hybrid system like a radian or a solark or maybe the Schneider xw but they were all so expensive I kind of liked the solark but I saw videos where it was having trouble starting induction loads. After a lot of thought a lot of research I came up with a totally different plan. A Fronius Primo 12.5 KW grid tied system, and use my zantrex sw5548s as the backup. I was really disappointed after all these years they are no longer able to grid tie and after research about that seems like they had trouble selling to the grid they had their issues. So I made this system kind of dumb and Bulletproof the inverters are strictly used as inverters to make Power. No AC goes through them they do not charge the batteries. They are strictly output only and only one at a time. The second inverter is actually wired through a transfer switch internal to the inverter module case to be a backup to the first inverter. The power room is the backup for the grid tie system if it goes down. So my system design the grid tie inverter has a backup battery based inverter that has a backup battery based inverter that will have a backup 10 KW propane generator which will come later it's already purchased it just has to be installed and wired to the transfer switch. I don't think I'm ever going to be without power that's the plan. The grid tie system will have 15 KW of solar the backup system will have 10 KW of its own I plan on installing a fairly large Pro Tran critical load panel that has two 240 circuits and six 120 circuits but instead of it being a critical load and switching between a generator in the grid will actually be between the two inverter systems so while I'm on the grid tie system I can actually run eight circuits on the off grid system while on grid I'll be able to play with going off grid while I'm on grid should be pretty cool sorry for the long response I think this is why my girlfriend calls me the mad scientist LOL

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

I had picked this one up along with the inverters and most of my equipment so many years ago so since I decided to repurpose the way the inverters would be used after a lot of thought about this I figured out how to repurpose it instead of switching between the grid and your generator it will switch between grid tie system or backup system and basically be between the inverter systems I like the idea what do you think? Does that sound crazy or Innovative? LOL

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

I used one like this

UTZIKO Hydraulic Cable Lug Crimper 10 US TON 12 AWG to 00 (2/0) Electrical Terminal Cable Wire Tool Kit with 9 Die (12awg~00awg Crimping Tool+Cut) https://a.co/d/9LcK9Ln

Did a decent job took 3-4 crimps per lug to make them all nice and even.

In a nutshell two issues with soldering getting enough heat on big wire and then strand breakage at the junction at the solder line.

Research cold welded crimps. After a lot of thought I think they are superior. With a good crimp and good adhesive heat shrink I think it would be considered waterproof.

Just my opinion but I’m might high on Ancor brand cable and lugs. All tinned copper, UL listed and top quality.

Hey I looked at that tool. Man what a great price and it comes with the cutter as well that seems to be a smoking good deal. How well did it work for you? And is this the one that you are using?

 

[629658]

Some really smart folks on here. Your room looks like a NASA control center. A real thing of beauty.

As for my Sol Ark it’s been rock solid since I installed it in September. I haven’t had a single big issue. Only thing I can complain about it is its SOC calculations are awful. I am open loop and it’s getting better with new firmware.

Installation was a breeze and the way it manages energy is amazing to me. I have it loaded up with an 18kw genny, 13.4kW DC coupled PV, 1850Ah of storage. We are rural so we have a well, a 4 ton Geothermal, Electric dryer and oven and a pool. So we use it pretty good. I utilize its Time of Use functions heavily. We have had solar for 9 years and updated to the Sol Ark and storage last year.

We are on hourly utility pricing by choice and leverage buying cheap nighttime kWh and selling off our PV production at double or triple the price during the day. Lately buying at 1.5 cents and selling at 3-5 cents. The Sol Ark makes the process easy. Plus you needed something that even my wife could run while I’m away.

I approached solar from an all or nothing standpoint. Either it runs the whole house or it doesn’t. I didn’t want to mess with critical loads panel.

 

[629658]

Hey I looked at that tool. Man what a great price and it comes with the cutter as well that seems to be a smoking good deal. How well did it work for you? And is this the one that you are using?

Yes it is I’ll have to look at the die size I used I think it was a 70. It barely fit 4/0 lugs but I got it to work. I crimper 25 or so lugs. I borrowed it from my son. He used it to crimp aircraft cable or wire rope for a deck railing project. I ended up buying one of these

SogYupk Ratchet Cable Wire Cutter,Ratcheting Cable Cutter Hand Tool,Heavy Duty Aluminum Copper Ratchet Wire Cutting For Cutting Electrical Wire Up to 240mm²/10.23Inch Cutter Pliers https://a.co/d/iN9Avjc

It didn’t deform the wire at the cuts so it made the lugs slide right on.

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

Some really smart folks on here. Your room looks like a NASA control center. A real thing of beauty.

As for my Sol Ark it’s been rock solid since I installed it in September. I haven’t had a single big issue. Only thing I can complain about it is its SOC calculations are awful. I am open loop and it’s getting better with new firmware.

Installation was a breeze and the way it manages energy is amazing to me. I have it loaded up with an 18kw genny, 13.4kW DC coupled PV, 1850Ah of storage. We are rural so we have a well, a 4 ton Geothermal, Electric dryer and oven and a pool. So we use it pretty good. I utilize its Time of Use functions heavily. We have had solar for 9 years and updated to the Sol Ark and storage last year.

We are on hourly utility pricing by choice and leverage buying cheap nighttime kWh and selling off our PV production at double or triple the price during the day. Lately buying at 1.5 cents and selling at 3-5 cents. The Sol Ark makes the process easy. Plus you needed something that even my wife could run while I’m away.

I approached solar from an all or nothing standpoint. Either it runs the whole house or it doesn’t. I didn’t want to mess with critical loads panel.

That sounds fantastic so this thing is starting your 4 ton ac? Is that a 15 KW solark ? Yeah the best I can hope for here Oklahoma is a zero Electric bill and even with the zero bill you still have to pay the $15 a month hook up fee so the cheapest my bill will ever be will be $15. I wished I had solar for the last decade but I have had three different UPS systems over the years All Battery based with big Transformer inverters. I'm totally with you on the All or Nothing. The fronius grid tie system I'm going to install at 12.5 KW will be able to power the whole house without issue I'm pretty sure one sw5548 will power my house. When I built it 10 years ago I made it superficient it's 2x6 everything in the house is energy star. I'm rural as well also have a well pump I have a 3.2 ton AC that only uses 30 amp breaker with 10 gauge wire. I bought a soft start for it I'm pretty sure one sw5548 would start it without the soft start but I'm going to make it easy for the inverter and everyone seems to say that they also save power over time. I will do a amp test before I install the soft start just to see how much difference it really makes. I have an interlock for my breaker panel if the grid goes down and the grid tie with it I can switch the entire breaker box to the backup system or while the grid is on I can switch those eight circuits back and forth. That's the plan anyway. I will be attacking the wiring from the generator room to the breaker box then the transfer panel will be added to allow me to switch back and forth between the two inverter systems.

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

Yes it is I’ll have to look at the die size I used I think it was a 70. It barely fit 4/0 lugs but I got it to work. I crimper 25 or so lugs. I borrowed it from my son. He used it to crimp aircraft cable or wire rope for a deck railing project. I ended up buying one of these

SogYupk Ratchet Cable Wire Cutter,Ratcheting Cable Cutter Hand Tool,Heavy Duty Aluminum Copper Ratchet Wire Cutting For Cutting Electrical Wire Up to 240mm²/10.23Inch Cutter Pliers https://a.co/d/iN9Avjc

It didn’t deform the wire at the cuts so it made the lugs slide right on.

That looks very nice reminds me of the old tree limb Lopper that had ratchet action so the cutter that came with the tool it deformed the wiring? Made it hard to get into the lugs?

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

Some really smart folks on here. Your room looks like a NASA control center. A real thing of beauty.

As for my Sol Ark it’s been rock solid since I installed it in September. I haven’t had a single big issue. Only thing I can complain about it is its SOC calculations are awful. I am open loop and it’s getting better with new firmware.

Installation was a breeze and the way it manages energy is amazing to me. I have it loaded up with an 18kw genny, 13.4kW DC coupled PV, 1850Ah of storage. We are rural so we have a well, a 4 ton Geothermal, Electric dryer and oven and a pool. So we use it pretty good. I utilize its Time of Use functions heavily. We have had solar for 9 years and updated to the Sol Ark and storage last year.

We are on hourly utility pricing by choice and leverage buying cheap nighttime kWh and selling off our PV production at double or triple the price during the day. Lately buying at 1.5 cents and selling at 3-5 cents. The Sol Ark makes the process easy. Plus you needed something that even my wife could run while I’m away.

I approached solar from an all or nothing standpoint. Either it runs the whole house or it doesn’t. I didn’t want to mess with critical loads panel.

It sounds like you made a good purchase then after reading through your post again and the way you sell electric there I don't think you can beat that inverter for the controllability of it . When I put the Fronius in service, I'll be adding what they call the Fronius smart meter and basically it won't sell much more than I use I'll program it to sell just a little extra to make sure I zero my bill but in Oklahoma if you sell too much back to the grid they want to call you a commercial power producer and change the rate at which you buy power which indirectly makes your electric bill cost more. Oklahoma is a terrible state to do solar in there is no incentive other than the Federal. Being a gas and oil state they do not want people to have solar I'm convinced. My whole purpose for doing this is to have no bills when I retire in 8 years I'm knocking away at the house like crazy I think I'll have it paid off in four and a half years.

 

[G.W. Mad Scientist]

Well factory made cables are probably superior although if you take your time and do it right maybe not. You just need to make sure all your cables are equal length. I made a lot of crimps on my project.

I'm curious about your battery Bank they're very interesting looking as if each battery had its own monitor built in. That lynx 1000 unit that you have all your batteries going to what is the purpose of that?