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Your Charge Controller "Charges" the line between your Battery.

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That is why I am asking people to tell me their system specs, how they use their system
It is overcast today and I may only get a 20 Amp charging current. Earlier my measurements do not show any loss. I do use 4/0 cable even though the maximum I can charge at is 100 Amps, I rarely see even that many Amps into or out of the battery.

I will describe my system beyond what is in my signature. I have a 42 kWh pack in my garage connected to my hybrid inverter. My hybrid is set for Self Consumption Mode which means I only use the grid for backup. Last night was typical in that I used about 8 kWhs from when the sun went down until the solar started covering my loads and the battery stopped discharging. Normally in summer the batteries are charged before Noon and the rest of the day my solar covers the loads and any extra gets sold to the grid. Overall I generate about 45 kWhs a day and average about 26 kWhs per day sold to the grid. I charge two EVs and run some other loads outside the inverter. I won't go into the nuances of Net Energy Metering because it is not germain to this thread.
 
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Charge controllers do not have a "high voltage disconnect" setting. Charging is stopped when it is completed, based on the charge profile settings of the charger.
Correct, his has a Boost setting and his is set at 15.2 volts which presumably compensates for the one volt loss in the wiring. That would mean the battery only sees 14.2 during the CC stage which reportedly runs at 25 Amps.
During charging the voltage delta is 0.04 volts which I would not call "wildly out of balance". However that reading was only at the beginning of the knee (3.4 volts per cell) and we do not know what it looks like when the BMS actually cuts out. It could be a runner cell or total voltage since his charge controller is set to 15.2 volts or 3.8 volts per cell.
 
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Correct, his has a Boost setting and his is set at 15.2 volts which presumably compensates for the one volt loss in the wiring. That would mean the battery only sees 14.2 during the CC stage which reportedly runs at 25 Amps.
Right, but he has the max boost time set to 10 hours (600 minutes). So as the battery reaches full charge the current drops, so the voltage lost on the connections is decreased, so the battery reaches over 15.2V, no matter how much loss he has on the wire. So he will ALWAYS have a BMS HVCO.
 
Right, but he has the max boost time set to 10 hours (600 minutes).
I did not notice the Boost time. I did notice the float voltage of 15.2 volts but did not comment on that. Thank you for confirming my assumption in my late night post that as the current tapers in boost, the voltage drop will decline such that the battery could see as much as 15 volts (3.75 volts per cell) thus triggering the BMS.
I still think if the voltage drop in the wiring system could be reduced he could lower his charge voltage setting and have the charge controller turn off like most systems do. Notice that I said "wiring system" because it could be any where along that path and not just one wire.
 
I found an older Renogy app that lets me set my SCC High Voltage Disconnect. My guess is that many people just can't access that setting.
Well then I guess I should temper my statement a bit, and say that very few SCCs would have such a setting. I've never seen it. My guess is that the High Voltage Disconnect in an old PWM SCC would be another term for Bulk/Absorption voltage. My personal opinion is that it is a bad term.

Thanks for the correction though.
 
With what you have said, as well as so many others in this forum, (thank you by the way) - what do you recommend I do.

I still recommend to do a 'proper' (series) voltage drop test to confirm the numbers/math adds up to the measured voltages on each end, they should all add up.


What system are you running? Do you have modern hardware? Do you have LFP, or Lead Acid?

Modern Victron SCC's with DIY LFP batteries, and copper bus bars and Victron BMV-712 shunt in between 2 negative bus bars.


What Charge Controller are you using? What is the reading at the posts of your charge controller terminals, and battery terminals during peak sun? Do you see any Vdroop?"

Thanks again.


Sure no prob...

So I did say what I kind of system have before to some extent, but I can list it again (all in the one place) real quick. I was able to go out and take a couple quick measurements, while my batteries were charging full-bore, both charge controllers were pegging at their maximum current of 100a output each. Victrons running very warm for sure.

My configuration:

-I have 2 Victron 250|100 charge controllers (each has their own 8-panel solar array, so 16 panels, 405w each, 4s2p wired).

-I am using 8 AWG cable on the PV solar circuit (from panel banks, each through a respective DC combiner box, then to each Victron SCC)

-I am using 2 AWG cable going from each of those Victron charge controllers to the main copper bus bars (one bus bar for + and two bus bars for - cable attachments on each side of shunt), and as such, the 2 AWG size is the largest gauge that can fit into the Victron SCC connection lugs, and what their manual says to use there (couldn't go bigger, unless I cut off some strands on a larger gauge cable).

-I am running from the copper bus bars to batteries, 3 SEPARATE sets of 2/0 cables, to each PAIR of 2x 12v battery packs

-Charging to a full bank of six, 280Ah 12v LFP DIY packs (1680Ah, 22KWh), with 6 Overkill 120a BMSs (JBD BMS)


My observations...

I do have a little bit of voltage drop in the circuit between charge controller and batteries.

-Sample voltage measured at Victron SCC terminal lugs is about 14.15v
-Sample voltage measured at the batteries connectors is about 13.79v

If I do a proper voltage drop test on the positive cable (place the + lead of voltmeter to the Victron +, and put the - lead of voltmeter to the + of the battery connection), I measure .2v drop in that run.

If I also do a proper voltage drop test on the negative cable in the same way (place the + lead of voltmeter to the battery connection -, and put the - lead of voltmeter to the - of the Victron), I measure .17v drop in that run.

So the math all adds up. Add those two voltage drop numbers together from the positive and negative cable voltage drop tests, which is .37v. For reference: 14.15v - 13.79v = .36v (.01v off but oh well, it basically adds up almost nuts-on).

I measure the temperature of the wires connecting the Victron SCC to bus bar (the 2 AWG cables) using an infrared temperature gun, I see 105° F (cable is rated for 221° F max).

I consider this to be about as good as I can get, since Victron doesn't make larger battery connection lugs on the 250|100. I could use bigger cables and trim out a few strands to make it fit the lugs if I wanted to try and lower the cable temperature, but I am willing to accept the minor loss, since the energy from the Sun is free anyways, it's just the cost of doing business at a most reasonable price vs expectation point.


A little bit different scale than your system, but kind of showing the workflow of checking out voltage drop is the same. In your case, the loss is not acceptable due to a full 1v drop being perceived here.
 
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I think you will find the Renogy high volts disconnect relates to a disconnect of battery to load terminals, its not related to charging.
 
Well then I guess I should temper my statement a bit, and say that very few SCCs would have such a setting. I've never seen it. My guess is that the High Voltage Disconnect in an old PWM SCC would be another term for Bulk/Absorption voltage. My personal opinion is that it is a bad term.

Thanks for the correction though.
I have a Renogy Rover MPPT charger and their older control app (Renogy BT) has many user settings that their current app doesn't. I would bet that many SCCs have settings that you just can't access.
 
I think you will find the Renogy high volts disconnect relates to a disconnect of battery to load terminals, its not related to charging.
That may be true. I'll see if I can verify that. One thing that I notice is that the value of the High Voltage Disconnect differs according to battery type. Wouldn't that indicate it's related to charging, and not the load terminal? Edit: In the user manual High Voltage Disconnect is listed under battery charging parameters.
 
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@Michael77
The sun came out and my inverter is charging the battery at 60 Amps and I am seeing a 0.1 volt drop from the inverter/charger terminal to the battery. That is for a nominal 48 volt system The actual readins were 53.9 volts at the battery and 54.0 volts at the inverter charger. That amounts to less than one tenth of one percent (0.001). That compares to one volt on a 14 volts system of seven percent (0.07) As mentioned throughout this thread, that is a lot of voltage loss.
 
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That compares to one volt on a 14 volts system of seven percent (0.07) As mentioned throughout this thread, that is a lot of voltage loss.
That's also 7% of the solar energy lost to heat and not making it into the battery. I thought it was worth pointing out, since the OP's quest began with trying to get more output from is PV.
 
I still think if the voltage drop in the wiring system could be reduced he could lower his charge voltage setting and have the charge controller turn off like most systems do.

That is pretty much what everyone has been trying to explain to him this whole thread (with limited success).
 
His bus bar may be brass and not copper. He plans to connect directly to the battery and test resistance.
That is good.
If my assumption is correct and @Horsefly seemed to confirm, one or all the cells are hitting the BMS cutoff voltage, which i presume is 3.65 per cell.

With those settings he is shortening the life of his pack(s). He did mention earlier, his desire to only charge to 3.55 per cell to increase the life of his pack. His current settings literally guarantee that he will exceed that goal every day the system is running.
 
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Wondered the same, but I did see a pic he included that showed 14.5V.
You seem to be the big brain on this forum, respect intended.

Does "Charge" flow faster than "Current"

If, "Chare" (for practical purposes) flows instantaneously, and "Current" flows A LOT SLOWER, would it be possible to explain the Vdroop on a line?

I am not as technical or advanced as you. Also, I have included a video on this exact subject that I think you might actually enjoy and understand, and so, because I am not as advanced as you, could you share your thoughts and opinions, but with simple to understand language, the maths you like to use is very impressive, but I don't have the experience in advanced maths, so keep that in mind.

Thanks again for all your help

 
The central issue here is the one volt drop in voltage. The OP has verified a one volt loss in voltage from the charge controller to the battery. It could be in the wire, it could be in a connection or two and some of it could be in the bus bar which apparently is brass. Brass is a poor conductor not withstanding the fact that the bus bar is rated for 250 Amps. I can put 250 Amps through a big enough piece of steel to not heat the steel, but the resistance of the steel will still cause a voltage drop. Most of my shunts use steel as the conductor because of the resistance.

Brass is 7 times better conductor then steel , good busbars are copper or failing that brass often plated.
It has been suggested that the OP test the voltage drop at several points along the path. So far he has not done that. Replacing one wire section may or may not fix the issue. A sense wire will already reveal what we already know. A sense wire will not fix the voltage drop issue.
Sure sense wires don’t cure drops but they do correctly compensate for it as you will always have some drop.
 
Right, but he has the max boost time set to 10 hours (600 minutes). So as the battery reaches full charge the current drops, so the voltage lost on the connections is decreased, so the battery reaches over 15.2V, no matter how much loss he has on the wire. So he will ALWAYS have a BMS HVCO.
Yes. It’s truely a bad charging regime and it will damage his batteries over time.
 
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