I hope I did not screw this up Phocos PSW-H-5KW-120/48V

[Tanter]

Working on building my first system. I ended up with twice as much solar as I was planning because I got a great deal on it. Now I have to find something that can take all that power, I wanted to run 250V to keep the amps manageable. The only reasonable price all in 1 hybrid I could find was Phocos PSW-H-5KW-120/48V
so I ordered 1. It looks amazing in the stats but it appears so new that there are no reviews I can find. Good deal or did I screw this one all up? By the way I have 10 315 watt panels in the way to go with it, $1200 plus shipping $1450 all together seemed like a deal to me.

 

[SolarQueen]

We (altE Store) are also waiting to hear customer feedback. Phocos is a great company, and makes great products, so we are very excited about the new product. Anxiously waiting to hear if it lives up to our expectation.

I assume those are 60 cell panels and you are going to do 5 in series to each MPPT input. That should be a great system, let us know how it goes when you install it. That's a fantastic deal on solar panels you got. What are you doing for a battery bank?

 

[Hedges]

I see that listed at various normal outlets, not just fly-by-night on-line sellers, so probably legitimate.

Phocos PSW-H-5KW-120/48V Pure Sine Wave Hybrid 5000W 48VDC Inverter Charger

Note: Phocos has discontinued this inverter and has been replaced by the 6.5kW Any-Grid. Limited availability while supplies last.

www.solar-electric.com

40 lbs is a light weight high frequency inverter, but it says 2x surge for 5 seconds, so should start a 2000W motor.
(correction from what I originally wrote: "so don't expect surge current to start anything larger than 1000W motor.")
120V, you can add one or two for 120/240V or 3-phase.

To make sure you don't screw anything up, understand how Voc of PV panels is affected by cold temperature and plan your series/parallel strings so you never exceed the 250V max spec of inverter.

Depending on the PV panel specs, don't know if 5 in series is Ok (SolarQueen just indicated probably, but do the math)
Otherwise, could be 3s2p into one MPPT input, 4s1p into the other.

Got a data sheet for the panels?

I like that the inverter is "batteries optional", gives you economical possibilities.

 

[SolarQueen]

To make sure you don't screw anything up, understand how Voc of PV panels is affected by cold temperature and plan your series/parallel strings so you never exceed the 250V max spec of inverter.

Depending on the PV panel specs, don't know if 5 in series is Ok (SolarQueen just indicated probably, but do the math)
Otherwise, could be 3s2p into one MPPT input, 4s1p into the other.

Got a data sheet for the panels?

I made a few assumptions that the Voc is 41V or less, and the coldest temp is -22F or warmer. 41Voc x 1.21 temp correction x 5 in series = 248V. That's just under the 250V limit. (You know I love math)

 

[Hedges]

Math's great. And optimal for GIGO.
I found one 315W panel 45.6 Voc, another 70.2 Voc.
Don't think we have any idea what brand he found.

By the way, ever learn to use a slide rule?

 

[Jmac786]

I just ordered the Phocos 5KW too, so I’m glad to find another forum member giving it a shot. I love the expandability (45KW) of the system, the pin coded grid-backfeed, and it’s so much lighter than some of the competition. Honestly, I didn’t think it was that much more than the cheap MPPTs given the added functionality and ability to backfeed. I plan to install it first and then get the permitting done.

I’ve also got 16 of the Lishen 280amh cells coming to back up to. Still debating on whether to use Solar-Battery-Utility mode or Solar-Utility-Battery mode. I have no clue what to do for the BMS. Overkill doesn’t make one that size and Chargery/Daly have given other members

Eventual plan if this works is to purchase two additional units and have a 15kw system.


key specs for Phocos 5KW:
4,800 watt max usable power
6,000 watt max array
2 MPPTs (each can handle 250v)

https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/Phocos_PSW-H_Series_manual.pdf

 

[Jmac786]

40 lbs is a light weight high frequency inverter, so don't expect surge current to start anything larger than 1000W motor.

Spec sheet says surge power is “2x rated power for 5 seconds”. Rated AC output power is 5,000 watts. So that would be anything with less than a 10,000 watt surge requirement right? Or am I missing something too?

 

[Hedges]

Spec sheet says surge power is “2x rated power for 5 seconds”. Rated AC output power is 5,000 watts. So that would be anything with less than a 10,000 watt surge requirement right? Or am I missing something too?

Not missing anything. I read rated power 3000W/3000W or 5000W/5000W depending on model.
I missed the surge listed below.
5 seconds is good. We usually don't see that except in inverters over 100 pounds.

 

[Tanter]

We (altE Store) are also waiting to hear customer feedback. Phocos is a great company, and makes great products, so we are very excited about the new product. Anxiously waiting to hear if it lives up to our expectation.

I assume those are 60 cell panels and you are going to do 5 in series to each MPPT input. That should be a great system, let us know how it goes when you install it. That's a fantastic deal on solar panels you got. What are you doing for a battery bank?

I could not find anything bad about Phocos but thank you for verifying they are a good company. They are 72 cell panels. Yes 5 in series each 10 total. I have not got the battery yet but looking at 16 cell 200ah 48v to start. I dont know if that is going to be enough, I want to run 2 refrigerators and an upright freezer off them but it looks like I will be lucky to get a day and a half off that size battery.

 

[Tanter]

I see that listed at various normal outlets, not just fly-by-night on-line sellers, so probably legitimate.

Phocos PSW-H-5KW-120/48V Pure Sine Wave Hybrid 5000W 48VDC Inverter Charger

Note: Phocos has discontinued this inverter and has been replaced by the 6.5kW Any-Grid. Limited availability while supplies last.

www.solar-electric.com

40 lbs is a light weight high frequency inverter, but it says 2x surge for 5 seconds, so should start a 2000W motor.
(correction from what I originally wrote: "so don't expect surge current to start anything larger than 1000W motor.")
120V, you can add one or two for 120/240V or 3-phase.

To make sure you don't screw anything up, understand how Voc of PV panels is affected by cold temperature and plan your series/parallel strings so you never exceed the 250V max spec of inverter.

Depending on the PV panel specs, don't know if 5 in series is Ok (SolarQueen just indicated probably, but do the math)
Otherwise, could be 3s2p into one MPPT input, 4s1p into the other.

Got a data sheet for the panels?

I like that the inverter is "batteries optional", gives you economical possibilities.

I got these.

REC 315W - SanTan Solar Store

Check out our new REC Solar 315W 72 cell polycrystalline panels! They come with the manufacturers warranty! Only $0.35/watt!

store.santansolar.com

I am sure glad Will mentioned San Tan Solar in one of his videos. I almost paid the same price for less than half the output.

 

[Tanter]

I made a few assumptions that the Voc is 41V or less, and the coldest temp is -22F or warmer. 41Voc x 1.21 temp correction x 5 in series = 248V. That's just under the 250V limit. (You know I love math)

Looks like I may have to do some rethinking here. They are 45.5 record low is -20F 30 some years ago, I am assuming that was overnight does that make a difference?

 

[Tanter]

I see that listed at various normal outlets, not just fly-by-night on-line sellers, so probably legitimate.

Phocos PSW-H-5KW-120/48V Pure Sine Wave Hybrid 5000W 48VDC Inverter Charger

Note: Phocos has discontinued this inverter and has been replaced by the 6.5kW Any-Grid. Limited availability while supplies last.

www.solar-electric.com

40 lbs is a light weight high frequency inverter, but it says 2x surge for 5 seconds, so should start a 2000W motor.
(correction from what I originally wrote: "so don't expect surge current to start anything larger than 1000W motor.")
120V, you can add one or two for 120/240V or 3-phase.

To make sure you don't screw anything up, understand how Voc of PV panels is affected by cold temperature and plan your series/parallel strings so you never exceed the 250V max spec of inverter.

Depending on the PV panel specs, don't know if 5 in series is Ok (SolarQueen just indicated probably, but do the math)
Otherwise, could be 3s2p into one MPPT input, 4s1p into the other.

Got a data sheet for the panels?

I like that the inverter is "batteries optional", gives you economical possibilities.

Looks like I have some more work to do. I thought cold raised the amps did not know it affected voltage. Thank you for the heads up.

 

[Jmac786]

I want to run 2 refrigerators and an upright freezer off them but it looks like I will be lucky to get a day and a half off that size battery.

You do have grid access at this location right? That’s why you wanted a hybrid? My next question would be; When are you most likely to have grid failure? (Ex. Hurricane, tornado, winter) If winter is your biggest worry then your food will just stay cold. 16s battery might work for you just fine.

 

[Hedges]

I got these.

REC 315W - SanTan Solar Store

Check out our new REC Solar 315W 72 cell polycrystalline panels! They come with the manufacturers warranty! Only $0.35/watt!

store.santansolar.com

I am sure glad Will mentioned San Tan Solar in one of his videos. I almost paid the same price for less than half the output.

https://www.solarelectricsupply.com/fileuploader/download/download/?d=0&file=custom%2Fupload%2FREC-Solar-Peak-Energy-72-Series-datasheet-US-ENG.pdf

• Open circuit voltage (VOC): 45.5 V

Temperature Coefficient of VOC-0.27 %/°C

If I use -20 degrees C for record cold temperature in your location, (-20 degrees) - 25 degrees ambient = -45 degrees adjustment
-45 x -0.27% = +12.15% voltage

(1 + 0.1215) x 45.5 = 51V

5 x 51V = 255Voc on a cold day.

Best to use strings no longer than 4 panels.

Looks like I have some more work to do. I thought cold raised the amps did not know it affected voltage. Thank you for the heads up.

No problem, that's what we do here!

 

[Hedges]

Looks like I may have to do some rethinking here. They are 45.5 record low is -20F 30 some years ago, I am assuming that was overnight does that make a difference?

Measured at some location in the area.
YMMV (your meteorology may vary)

Some locations near the earth could be kept warmer. Some location might get colder.
A few charge controllers have over-voltage protection, a transistor which can withstand higher voltage and turns off on a rare cold day, waits for voltage to drop. But for those which do not, we always stay under the Voc limit, not sure exactly what voltage could wreck it.
This is why it is good to do the math on the exact panel and inverter/charge controller before purchase to optimize the selection. In your case it looks like having two MPPT lets you fit all the panels you ordered. But you could have ordered two more to make all strings 4s, or 6 more for two sets of 4s2p (assuming you had the space to mount them.)

 

[SolarQueen]

I got these.

REC 315W - SanTan Solar Store

Check out our new REC Solar 315W 72 cell polycrystalline panels! They come with the manufacturers warranty! Only $0.35/watt!

store.santansolar.com

I am sure glad Will mentioned San Tan Solar in one of his videos. I almost paid the same price for less than half the output.

New old stock, that's what threw me off. I assumed they were new, and would be able to do 315W with 60 cell instead of 72. All it takes is one record breaking cold day to let out the factory installed smoke. As Hodges said, 4 in series would be the max. 2 parallel strings of 3 in series and 1 string of 4 in series would work.

My dad showed me his slide rule when I was a kid, but never got the hang of using it. He recently gave it to his granddaughter (Physics major), not sure if she's figured it out yet.

 

[Hedges]

Slide rule. If 3 digits precision was enough to design Blackbird, it's enough for anything we're likely to do.

Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird: Designed using a Slide-Rule to look beautiful.

OK, I know there are many better media clips of the SR-71 out there, but this clip which has over 11 million views still puts a massive smile on my face. Apart from the fantastic music track (Oxyge…

invitationtothecity.com

 

[Tanter]

Measured at some location in the area.
YMMV (your meteorology may vary)

Some locations near the earth could be kept warmer. Some location might get colder.
A few charge controllers have over-voltage protection, a transistor which can withstand higher voltage and turns off on a rare cold day, waits for voltage to drop. But for those which do not, we always stay under the Voc limit, not sure exactly what voltage could wreck it.
This is why it is good to do the math on the exact panel and inverter/charge controller before purchase to optimize the selection. In your case it looks like having two MPPT lets you fit all the panels you ordered. But you could have ordered two more to make all strings 4s, or 6 more for two sets of 4s2p (assuming you had the space to mount them.)

I think I will just run them in strings of 3 and 4 to play it safe for now. I have plenty of room on the roof I got an estimate last year for grid tie system for 100% of the house and 9.1kw left quite a bit of room on the southern facing roof. I was concedering getting another controller and 20 more panels some time in the future. After I am done playing hobby trying to learn how all this stuff works.

 

[Bleedingblue]

Not missing anything. I read rated power 3000W/3000W or 5000W/5000W depending on model.
I missed the surge listed below.
5 seconds is good. We usually don't see that except in inverters over 100 pounds.

My inverters i have now are 4.5kw pv side and 5.5kw inverter side, they weigh around 30 lbs. Able to supply 2x rated power in burst for a couple seconds. Im using 3 of em and have seen the inverters over 15 kw with steady current with 4.5 ton aircondiotioners kick on and spike well over that amount. So they can do the job.

Ive also owned an Aimes inverter that was a 10k unit. That unit surges up to 30kw for up to 30 seconds and it weighs around 110 lbs.

Pretty sure that high frequency inverters weigh much less and are able to double power on a surge for a couple seconds.
Low frequency inverters are able to triple surge currents for 20-30 seconds

 

[schroederjd]

I'm also considering the Phocos PSW-H 5kw/120v for my off-grid build. The 250V current limit on the dual MPPTs was one of the attractive points for me, keeping panel set-up simple (two 5s strings).

One of my main questions is around generator compatibility. I've got a Honda EU2200i that I'd like to use for charging the batteries as necessary. Some of the product literature/videos give me the impression that operation is somewhat binary (ie, either in "Off-Grid" mode or "On-Grid" mode), which would mean that while charging with the EU2200i, the inverter/panels would not be functioning. I'm hoping that I have that wrong, as would want to maintain the full 5kw capacity of the inverter, even when I'm charging with the genset.

I've contacted Phocos several times in the past week with no response (not a great sign in itself...). Anyone have thoughts on my situation?

Jon