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China customs bans shipping of lithium batteries?

Did U.S. messing around bring economic malaise to central/south America?
Yes.

In many countries, investment by US or other corporations probably brought some economic prosperity, and corporate profits due to sweetheart deal. Local benefit concentrated in ruling class? But maybe some trickle-down. Then when local government (maybe following a revolution, or just leftist politics) nationalizes the facilities, U.S. government takes offense. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela ... What follows, including sanctions, does then cause malaise.

Nationalization of private industry when they refuse to pay a fair dividend (according to the government) for the resources extracted and closed down those industries instead, is fair. The US getting involved was dumb. Same for the Banana wars. Castro overthrew a dictator and went after the Mafia, I would have expected the US government to support him in that. Problem is when you invade, put sanctions, support the opposition with weapons and money, those governments will inevitable go looking elsewhere for support.

China is sneakier or more business like if you will, they provide loans that they know are unlikely to be paid back (which is why the Western nations are not providing the loans) and will accept certain state assets as (part) payment.
 
Yes.



Nationalization of private industry when they refuse to pay a fair dividend (according to the government) for the resources extracted and closed down those industries instead, is fair. The US getting involved was dumb. Same for the Banana wars. Castro overthrew a dictator and went after the Mafia, I would have expected the US government to support him in that. Problem is when you invade, put sanctions, support the opposition with weapons and money, those governments will inevitable go looking elsewhere for support.

China is sneakier or more business like if you will, they provide loans that they know are unlikely to be paid back (which is why the Western nations are not providing the loans) and will accept certain state assets as (part) payment.
Leo, Is there a reason you are so interested in the US? Dont you have enough of your own problems in your own country?
 
Why? Are only Americans allowed to state their opinions on the US?
Nope. Freedom of speech should be a Global construct. Just wondering. I guess its just human nature for some folks to focus on negative aspects of a society. No society is perfect, and evil does exist in this world, but so does good. I always hope for the positive, fulfilling, pure, honest, loving, and caring aspects of human nature.
 
With 13 billion doses given, and 5 billion people fully vaccinated, I would say the vaccine are safe.
‘Fully vaccinated”
So is it possible to be half-assed vaccinated? ?‍♂️

Regardless, having lots of people being administered the covid shot that isn’t actually a “vaccine” at all does not make it “safe,” it just makes it common.

There’s plenty of unanswered questions regarding efficacy, reported side effects, and potential long-term complications because we the people either don’t have access to the data or “we” have been irresponsible and have not been tracking the data.
messing in their internal politics to bring in more right wing governments favourable to American businesses tends to backfire, in this case economic problems and migration as a result
You don’t even have the faintest that you have an opinion that is 180* polar to actual facts, actual forensic economics.
Thousands dying from the candy colored Fentanyl coming over the border
I’m not sure of the relationship here?
I’m not at risk of dying from fentanyl or any other drug, myself. Is it tragic? Yes. Especially when it is claimed that a huge percentage of opioid abusers started legally with prescription drugs.
But staying an addict is a choice at some point. There’s help, there’s recovery. As odd as this may sound… I know way more recovered junkies- hardcore, traditional druggie lifestyle people- that turned their backs on it and have been clean for many, many years.
So you are saying that if they were vaccinated, they would be welcomed with open arms
That’s not how I read it. But I’m gaining the impression that you use what intelligence you have selectively. You elect consciously or unconsciously to pretend to misunderstand or misinterpret as you see it fitting your agenda that appears to be focused on being an unwitting victim of those pesky capitalists who keep on creating new cash flow while not sitting around waiting for a handout or their minimum wage to be raised.
 
Nope. Freedom of speech should be a Global construct. Just wondering. I guess its just human nature for some folks to focus on negative aspects of a society. No society is perfect, and evil does exist in this world, but so does good. I always hope for the positive, fulfilling, pure, honest, loving, and caring aspects of human nature.

We agree on freedom of speech.

The discussion was about the US and the UK invading Iraq under false pretenses, costing the lives of thousands of Iraqi civilians and creating even more wanabe terrorist who hate the west. And when the American tried to claim (without evidence) that Iraq was he greatest state sponsor of terrorism as justification for the invasion, I pointed out some of the instances where the US has sponsored terrorist. (including the Taliban) Right now Europe does very little without the support of the US, although that was beginning to change under Trump as he was generally seen as untrustworthy.


And European nations have also done some terrible things, for example large scale bombing of cities during WW2 in order to intimidate the populations had the opposite effect and hardened the resolve of the population to defeat the enemy. The problem was that the leaders did not listen and continued to bomb anyway because they could not understand why the people on the other side couldn't see how evil their leaders were.

Not all is bad, we have Putin invading Ukraine and the West is and especially the US is providing a lot of support to Ukraine. It is actually a relative cheap way (less than 10% of the annual military budget) to get severely degrade the military capabilities of an old time enemy and this will change the balance of power for decades. It also might make China think twice about invading Taiwan.
 
We agree on freedom of speech.

The discussion was about the US and the UK invading Iraq under false pretenses, costing the lives of thousands of Iraqi civilians and creating even more wanabe terrorist who hate the west. And when the American tried to claim (without evidence) that Iraq was he greatest state sponsor of terrorism as justification for the invasion, I pointed out some of the instances where the US has sponsored terrorist. (including the Taliban) Right now Europe does very little without the support of the US, although that was beginning to change under Trump as he was generally seen as untrustworthy.


And European nations have also done some terrible things, for example large scale bombing of cities during WW2 in order to intimidate the populations had the opposite effect and hardened the resolve of the population to defeat the enemy. The problem was that the leaders did not listen and continued to bomb anyway because they could not understand why the people on the other side couldn't see how evil their leaders were.

Not all is bad, we have Putin invading Ukraine and the West is and especially the US is providing a lot of support to Ukraine. It is actually a relative cheap way (less than 10% of the annual military budget) to get severely degrade the military capabilities of an old time enemy and this will change the balance of power for decades. It also might make China think twice about invading Taiwan.
The EU and UN hated Trump because he told them like it was. He told them they would suffer by buying energy from Putin, and he was proven correct. He also told them to pay up on NATO, and bear their burden of defense. They did not like that either. National borders, migration, and patriotism were big issues for Trump. The EU was all about open borders, so they disliked him for those policies also.
Interesting how the national patriotism and migration control is making a comeback in the EU, with the left losing ro more conservative leaning politicians.
 
‘Fully vaccinated”
So is it possible to be half-assed vaccinated? ?‍♂️
Yes, you need two doses of some of the covid vaccines, just like you need multiple doses of the tetanus vaccine before you are considered fully vaccinated.

How come you don't know that?

Regardless, having lots of people being administered the covid shot that isn’t actually a “vaccine” at all does not make it “safe,” it just makes it common.
With billions of people being given the vaccine, any negative side effects can readily be seen. You can then weigh up the risks of the side effects to catching the virus. For example acetaminophen is considered safe enough to be sold over the counter, but there are also side effects.

There’s plenty of unanswered questions regarding efficacy, reported side effects, and potential long-term complications because we the people either don’t have access to the data or “we” have been irresponsible and have not been tracking the data.
The only unanswered questions are in your mind. I will leave it to the experts to decide if the vaccines are safe (and they tell us they are safe)

You don’t even have the faintest that you have an opinion that is 180* polar to actual facts, actual forensic economics.
Sure.

I’m not sure of the relationship here?
Some people fantasize that borders can be hermetically closed.

I’m not at risk of dying from fentanyl or any other drug, myself. Is it tragic? Yes. Especially when it is claimed that a huge percentage of opioid abusers started legally with prescription drugs.
But staying an addict is a choice at some point. There’s help, there’s recovery. As odd as this may sound… I know way more recovered junkies- hardcore, traditional druggie lifestyle people- that turned their backs on it and have been clean for many, many years.
I am glad they are getting help. Portugal did quite a good job by switching policy on drugs, seeing addiction as an illness instead of a crime.

That’s not how I read it. But I’m gaining the impression that you use what intelligence you have selectively. You elect consciously or unconsciously to pretend to misunderstand or misinterpret as you see it fitting your agenda that appears to be focused on being an unwitting victim of those pesky capitalists who keep on creating new cash flow while not sitting around waiting for a handout or their minimum wage to be raised.
Why did you remove the "/s", surely you know it is meant to indicate that the comment was meant as sarcasm?

And to make it clear, I am not against capitalism, nor am I pro capitalism at all costs. For example while I believe that the roads should be state owned (communism if you will), I also believe cars, bikes and shoes should be made for profit by private companies,
(capitalism if you will) who sadly need to be regulated to behave responsibly.
 
The EU and UN hated Trump because he told them like it was.
Trump is seen as a terribly dumb person who loves dictators like Putin.

He told them they would suffer by buying energy from Putin, and he was proven correct.
He did and he was proven right. Europeans, including myself, believed that Putin would not piss of his trading partners by invading his neighbours.

He also told them to pay up on NATO, and bear their burden of defense.
Indeed he did. He even threatened to pull out of NATO and pulled out of other international agreements (Putin's wet dream) For what it is worth, the UK spends as much on it military as Russia.

They did not like that either. National borders, migration, and patriotism were big issues for Trump.
I am not much of a patriot, my country has been wrong in the past and will be wrong again in the future. As for borders and migration, they need to be addressed, excluding people who worship the wrong religion seems like a really dumb idea to me and only drives those people into the hands of the extremists.

The EU was all about open borders, so they disliked him for those policies also.
The US states have open borders as well (That is why they are "united")

Interesting how the national patriotism and migration control is making a comeback in the EU, with the left losing ro more conservative leaning politicians.
There are Nazi's everywhere, not just in Italy. Sometimes it is funny, people who voted for Brexit were upset they could no longer have property in the EU. The believe that your country is better than any other nation is mostly false, depending on your criteria it can only be true for one nation in the world. Other people will find other things more important. For me high quality education available to all, clean environment, universal health care, low crime, enough free time from work (but I would like more), with sufficient income to pursue my hobbies (including solar) are important. Luckily I am able to freely travel abroad to most countries and don't have to worry about religious zealots trying to take away my freedoms in my "own" country.

Not saying things are perfect in Europe, but I prefer Europe over the US (and both over Russia) Blaming the countries ills on minorities and foreigners is an effective way to get the masses to accept atrocities against other humans. The real problem is that the rich are getting richer leaving less wealth to share for the poor. But stating that inevitably leads to being dismissed as a communist. When the nationalists kill or run of the minorities, close their borders, they run out of people to blame. The next step tends to be invading and annexing the neighboring countries, which means accepting those people you tried to keep out of the country as fellow (lower class) citizens, or commit genocide.

The whole idea is stupid and it always fails in the end as there are not enough "patriots" to sustain the oppression.
 
Yes, you need two doses of some of the covid vaccines, just like you need multiple doses of the tetanus vaccine before you are considered fully vaccinated.

How come you don't know that?

Because the powers that be told us we have to take 2nd Pfizer dose 3 weeks after the 1st.
Even though we and everybody else knows a second dose must be taken much later for long lasting effect.

What I would like to see, but have not, is the difference in results U.K. got with their 3 week / 12 week split. They did say much higher antibodies. But I have not seen infection or hospitalization rate one year later.

Some people fantasize that borders can be hermetically closed.

We may not be able to make borders an impermeable barrier. But we could:

1) Arrest and deport anyone who is not here legally.
2) Decide who we want here (e.g. certain migrant workers, immigrants) and have a process to allow them in legally.
3) Stop providing anything free to people here illegally (don't leave cat food out.)

The US states have open borders as well (That is why they are "united")

The United States is a nation. You may travel freely between the states. Federal government, not the states, has power to regulate interstate commerce.

The borders (with Canada and Mexico), and the ports, are subject to immigration and customs control.

The European nations are free to regulate or permit passage at their borders as they choose.

... close their borders,

Absolutely within the authority of every nation to have their borders as open or closed as they wish. Or do you think a nation should not be able to regulate who can and can not visit or immigrate? We have convicted felons slipping back across the border, committing new crimes. Cities passing laws forbidding their police to cooperate with federal authorities, e.g. notifying them a wanted criminal is in their custody, instead turning him loose into the local community.
 
Because the powers that be told us we have to take 2nd Pfizer dose 3 weeks after the 1st.
Even though we and everybody else knows a second dose must be taken much later for long lasting effect.
I just follow the expert advise because I do not have the qualifications to question them. Now there are always going to be outliers and sometimes those outliers will be right, but I go with the consensus.

What I would like to see, but have not, is the difference in results U.K. got with their 3 week / 12 week split. They did say much higher antibodies. But I have not seen infection or hospitalization rate one year later.
People stopped reporting covid cases and as long as hospitals are able to cope, it is much like the flu.

We may not be able to make borders an impermeable barrier. But we could:
Glad we agree.

1) Arrest and deport anyone who is not here legally.
Isn't that what has been happening in your country? "U.S. authorities made more than 2 million immigration arrests along the southern border during the past 11 months"


2) Decide who we want here (e.g. certain migrant workers, immigrants) and have a process to allow them in legally.
Sure, but pure capitalism requires the free movement of goods and labour.

3) Stop providing anything free to people here illegally (don't leave cat food out.)
Prison is free. /s

The United States is a nation. You may travel freely between the states. Federal government, not the states, has power to regulate interstate commerce.
And how would you regulate interstate commerce without controlling those state borders?

The borders (with Canada and Mexico), and the ports, are subject to immigration and customs control.
Same everywhere, Europeans took it a step further and allowed free trade and migration between the countries which pisses off the nationalists. The Spanish don't like Brits buying properties and the Brits don't like the Polish trades people doing the work for less then the locals.

The European nations are free to regulate or permit passage at their borders as they choose.
Not quite that easy, if you are part of the EU, you have to conform to EU rules. You are even required to allow bids for contracts from contractors from other EU nations.

Absolutely within the authority of every nation to have their borders as open or closed as they wish.
There are also international agreements on travel. You can change those rules at a whim, but then you shouldn't be surprised when other nations retaliate.

Or do you think a nation should not be able to regulate who can and can not visit or immigrate?
I think nations should be regulating who can and can't come into the country. I wish we would live in a world where people were nicer to each other though.

We have convicted felons slipping back across the border, committing new crimes.
Yeah, but a wall won't fix that problem.

Cities passing laws forbidding their police to cooperate with federal authorities, e.g. notifying them a wanted criminal is in their custody, instead turning him loose into the local community.
Really, they allow wanted criminals go free instead of checking if they are wanted by the FBI?
 
I just follow the expert advise because I do not have the qualifications to question them. Now there are always going to be outliers and sometimes those outliers will be right, but I go with the consensus.

:ROFLMAO:

How do you know who is an expert?

People stopped reporting covid cases and as long as hospitals are able to cope, it is much like the flu.

What I mean is, U.K. reported 3x greater antibody response when 2nd dose given 12 weeks later.
But they did not report difference in infection/death/hospitalization rate between the "3 weeks later" and "12 weeks later" cohorts after one year.

"able to cope", but we are being pressured to get multiple boosters. Although, infection rate is not improved (beyond first few weeks after booster), but we are told it greatly reduces hospitalization and death. So U.K.'s data regarding timing of 2nd dose would be very interesting.

Isn't that what has been happening in your country? "U.S. authorities made more than 2 million immigration arrests along the southern border during the past 11 months"

No, by and large the population of people not legally here are legally protected by state and local governments.
It would be illegal if I, as a landlord, even asked a prospective tenant anything about his immigration status.



Sure, but pure capitalism requires the free movement of goods and labour.

The movement, not necessarily the free movement.
We can decide to search imports with drug-sniffing dogs. Not allow opium or fentanyl.
We can set worker, child labor, environmental laws. And prohibit imports from places where we disagree with practices.
We can limit employment to citizens and legal residents, not permit people living in another country's slum without running water, without sewage treatment plants, without vaccination against communicable diseases, from working for lower wages and taking jobs that would otherwise support American and pay enough to cover such health related services.

Prison is free. /s

I got a solution for that. You might call it "slavery", but it is allowed by our constitution when inmates are involved.

Costs me $106,000 per year per inmate (including $32,000 in health care.)
My own health care costs $12,000 per year for full coverage.
Newsom just signed a bill providing full health care for illegal aliens. At a cost to the government of $3500/year (which makes me mad - can you guess why?)


And how would you regulate interstate commerce without controlling those state borders?

We do. Agricultural checkpoints, for instance. Cars returning from Reno/Tahoe with skis etc. are waved through, and semi trucks are inspected.
It is a porous border, but people who are caught breaking the law would be dealt with in some manner. This is our business.

Not quite that easy, if you are part of the EU, you have to conform to EU rules. You are even required to allow bids for contracts from contractors from other EU nations.

Perfectly easy. Every person and every country should be able to enter into contracts. Then be held to those contracts. Countries weight the costs and benefits of joining E.U. Bailing out Greece was one such cost. Is it true that Germany, a productive country, has had to subsidize the irresponsibility of others? U.K. apparently had second thoughts about being part of E.U.

There are also international agreements on travel. You can change those rules at a whim, but then you shouldn't be surprised when other nations retaliate.

Sure. All about freedom.
U.S. started charging Brazilians $75 and photographing them with passport.
Brazil starting charging U.S. citizens $75 and photographing them with passport.
Couple of American Airlines pilots held up their passports with a hand that was flipping off the officer photographing them.
Flipping off an officer is recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court as constitutionally protected free speech. But in Brazil it is a crime :)

Yeah, but a wall won't fix that problem.


Really, they allow wanted criminals go free instead of checking if they are wanted by the FBI?

Not leaving out cat food would help.
Arresting and jailing law enforcement officers and legislators to refuse to comply with federal immigration laws would be a start.

Yes, in Sanctuary Cities, the official policy is to release onto the streets anyone who would be subject to deportation.
Perhaps if wanted by the FBI not by INS (now Homeland Security), they would cooperate. But a convicted felon who slipped back into the U.S. was arrested in San Francisco. Although the Feds wanted him, he was released onto the streets. He later found a gun, played with it, discharged it killing a young woman walking on the pier. Prosecutors charged him with "Murder", presumably because he would have to be acquitted of that; one must have the intent to kill (or certain other things) to be convicted. The shot he fired ricocheted off the ground, no aiming or intent.

Yes, in the U.S. some rabid Liberals want criminals to be dealt with as compassionately as possible. And to throw the book at citizens or police officers stopping or defending against crimes. Some people have a criminal history of 20, 30 or more violent and serious crimes. Just keep getting turned loose.
 
:ROFLMAO:
How do you know who is an expert?
Like any reasonable person would, you look at their qualifications....

What I mean is, U.K. reported 3x greater antibody response when 2nd dose given 12 weeks later.
But they did not report difference in infection/death/hospitalization rate between the "3 weeks later" and "12 weeks later" cohorts after one year.
I have not seen the studies, what I can see is when I look at hospitals, that they are no longer overflowing and don't have refrigerated trucks in their parking area's to deal with the dead bodies.

"able to cope", but we are being pressured to get multiple boosters. Although, infection rate is not improved (beyond first few weeks after booster), but we are told it greatly reduces hospitalization and death. So U.K.'s data regarding timing of 2nd dose would be very interesting.
Don't take the boosters if you don't want to. I am at a point where I couldn't care less if you decide to ignore expert advise, your body your choice. Just don't tell others to ignore the advise of experts. A friend of mine just lost her mother who she advised not to take the vaccine.

No, by and large the population of people not legally here are legally protected by state and local governments.
As they should be right? The problem is that if you are in the country illegally and you can not deal with your local police for fear of being deported, you are not going to report on crime, which makes you an easy target unless you take the law into your own hands. Loosing trust in law enforcement is really bad for society as a whole. And republicans, who used to be the party of law and order are not helping...

It would be illegal if I, as a landlord, even asked a prospective tenant anything about his immigration status.
Ok, but that is not your concern as a landlord, your concern is to charge the highest possible rent to (responsible) tenants. When there are more people who want to rent from you, you can charge higher prices.

The movement, not necessarily the free movement.
Free as in unobstructed by law, not free as in free beer.

We can decide to search imports with drug-sniffing dogs. Not allow opium or fentanyl.
You can do many things, but the "war on drugs" is lost just like prohibition failed.

We can set worker, child labor, environmental laws. And prohibit imports from places where we disagree with practices.

We can limit employment to citizens and legal residents, not permit people living in another country's slum without running water, without sewage treatment plants, without vaccination against communicable diseases, from working for lower wages and taking jobs that would otherwise support American and pay enough to cover such health related services.
But that (protectionism) is anti capitalism, I am not totally against it, but at the same time we have to recognize that investing money in countries where wages are low, will improve their economies over time. And of course local consumers benefit from the lower prices. In the mean time the reasons to escape poverty, increases the drive to migrate to richer countries. Just have to think hard about who and how and support governments who do try to improve the lot of their citizens. It really isn't that simple...

I got a solution for that. You might call it "slavery", but it is allowed by our constitution when inmates are involved.
Nuts right?

Costs me $106,000 per year per inmate (including $32,000 in health care.)
Maybe rethink how you deal with inmates, Norway seems to be having some success there, might be worth looking at.


My own health care costs $12,000 per year for full coverage.
Wow, my whole family is "free", I do pay more in taxes here than if I were in the US, although not US$12,000 more.

Newsom just signed a bill providing full health care for illegal aliens. At a cost to the government of $3500/year (which makes me mad - can you guess why?)
Because you don't want them to have health care? (illegal aliens also pay taxes)

We do. Agricultural checkpoints, for instance. Cars returning from Reno/Tahoe with skis etc. are waved through, and semi trucks are inspected.
It is a porous border, but people who are caught breaking the law would be dealt with in some manner. This is our business.
Ok. My own view of borders is like most authority... sad that they are needed, but they are needed.

Perfectly easy. Every person and every country should be able to enter into contracts. Then be held to those contracts. Countries weight the costs and benefits of joining E.U. Bailing out Greece was one such cost. Is it true that Germany, a productive country, has had to subsidize the irresponsibility of others? U.K. apparently had second thoughts about being part of E.U.
Bailing out Greece was about bailing out their banks, which if Greece had not been bailed out would have collapsed banks in other parts of the world. You should have a look at "fractional reserve banking" if you want to understand how fragile the banking system is while creating a lot of wealth and benefits.

The UK did have second thoughts and now they are having third thoughts.


Sure. All about freedom.
I am all for freedom, but with freedom comes responsibility.

U.S. started charging Brazilians $75 and photographing them with passport.
Brazil starting charging U.S. citizens $75 and photographing them with passport.
Couple of American Airlines pilots held up their passports with a hand that was flipping off the officer photographing them.
Flipping off an officer is recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court as constitutionally protected free speech. But in Brazil it is a crime :)
And what positive outcome did people expect from petty bureaucracy?

Bad idea to have pictures flipping officers off, unless you enjoy being held up for hours at the border for secondary questioning. BTW I even bring a burner phone when I travel to the US or buy one there.

Not leaving out cat food would help.
I know your cuisine is nothing to write home about, but I didn't know it was that bad...

Arresting and jailing law enforcement officers and legislators to refuse to comply with federal immigration laws would be a start.
They work for local authorities, who make local laws right, are they required to enforce federal law? Like if federal law allowed abortions, would they not be allowed to arrest doctors who perform them?

Yes, in Sanctuary Cities, the official policy is to release onto the streets anyone who would be subject to deportation.
I seriously doubt that they would release a known murderer or rapist.

Perhaps if wanted by the FBI not by INS (now Homeland Security), they would cooperate.
I imagine they would.

But a convicted felon who slipped back into the U.S. was arrested in San Francisco. Although the Feds wanted him, he was released onto the streets. He later found a gun, played with it, discharged it killing a young woman walking on the pier. Prosecutors charged him with "Murder", presumably because he would have to be acquitted of that; one must have the intent to kill (or certain other things) to be convicted. The shot he fired ricocheted off the ground, no aiming or intent.
Can't comment on that, what I see is that immigrants tend to commit fewer crimes and that the fast majority of the two million immigrants are not criminals.


If you want to base every law on anecdotal evidence, things would turn into a mess real quick, for example you would end up preventitive jailing every citizen because statistically some will commit crimes.
 
Yes, in the U.S. some rabid Liberals want criminals to be dealt with as compassionately as possible. And to throw the book at citizens or police officers stopping or defending against crimes. Some people have a criminal history of 20, 30 or more violent and serious crimes. Just keep getting turned loose.
Using derogatory terms like "rabid liberals" (or Tumptards for that matter) for a group of people you do not agree with is not helpful if you want to have a reasonable discussion about policies.

In the US your police kills a lot of your citizens compared to the number of police officers being killed by citizens and police are rarely held accountable. Again have no problem in jailing people who committed violent crime, however there has to be a path for them to become productive citizens after they are released.

Policies regardless if it is economics, crime, health care, etc, need to be comprehensive and work together to improve the lives of people, regardless if they are a member of a minority or the majority. Closing borders has consequences, imposing sanctions has consequences, protectionism has consequences. Reducing income from tax has consequences. If it were simple, every country in the world would have fixed it.

The way you guys frame the debate is wrong, you need to agree on what is happening today, for example the borders are not open, nor does any party in the US propose for them to be open. And a multi billion dollar wall only slows determined wanabe migrants and smugglers down a few minutes. It will still need enough immigration officers to deal with the people crossing. Personally I find it useful to think along the lines of "How difficult would it be to circumvent the laws I propose if they tried to stop me?"

My biggest concern is how to deal with AI, potentially it could do away with all jobs when it becomes sufficiently smart. Would we hook our brains into the cloud and live in a virtual world where we can have anything we desire, instead of watching tv? Will the robot feed us intravenously while we all run full marathons in the virtual world?

And to close it off, maybe some music?

 
Because you don't want them to have health care? (illegal aliens also pay taxes)

More so because I would like to only pay $3500 not $12,000 for my own health care.
And instead of $32,000 for an inmate's health care.

If the illegal aliens are working like me, they plus their employer can pay for health care just like I/mine do. Instead of me paying $3500 more in taxes so Newsom can give it to them for free.
But if they aren't working and paying for it, they can d*mn well go back home and get it from their own government.
No U.S. citizen or legal resident has any obligation to pay for any services for a citizen of another country. Except Newsom just burdened us with this additional obligation.
 
Nuts right?

If someone breaks a law and is jailed, would it be nuts to force them to work on a farm and grow their own food?
To perform some kind of work until they pay back the financial loss they caused their victim?
Instead of just sitting on a bunk watching TV, being fed and everything else in exchange for nothing?
 
More so because I would like to only pay $3500 not $12,000 for my own health care.
And instead of $32,000 for an inmate's health care.

If the illegal aliens are working like me, they plus their employer can pay for health care just like I/mine do. Instead of me paying $3500 more in taxes so Newsom can give it to them for free.
But if they aren't working and paying for it, they can d*mn well go back home and get it from their own government.
No U.S. citizen or legal resident has any obligation to pay for any services for a citizen of another country. Except Newsom just burdened us with this additional obligation.
Maybe you could ask your representative to vote for universal health care, so you all have it.

 
If someone breaks a law and is jailed, would it be nuts to force them to work on a farm and grow their own food?
Their own food? If I were in prison I would welcome the opportunity to spend time outside and grow vegetables for my own consumption and even cook them. (probably why I am not in prison as I have too many hobbies)

To perform some kind of work until they pay back the financial loss they caused their victim?
You could make restitution part of the sentencing.

If you have prisoners work, you have to pay prevailing market wages and in addition profits go to the inmates, not the companies using prison labour. If they earn more, they can use that money to make a fresh start when they get out. In addition they could learn new skills, even pursue university degrees. You want to give people an opportunity to become productive, law abiding citizens who treat others with respect and compassion.

Instead of just sitting on a bunk watching TV, being fed and everything else in exchange for nothing?
If they refuse, you can't force them. First of all taking away tv, food and everything else is not a smart move, you really do not want an angry mob of prisoners.
 
Their own food? If I were in prison I would welcome the opportunity to spend time outside and grow vegetables for my own consumption and even cook them. (probably why I am not in prison as I have too many hobbies)


You could make restitution part of the sentencing.

If you have prisoners work, you have to pay prevailing market wages and in addition profits go to the inmates, not the companies using prison labour. If they earn more, they can use that money to make a fresh start when they get out. In addition they could learn new skills, even pursue university degrees. You want to give people an opportunity to become productive, law abiding citizens who treat others with respect and compassion.


If they refuse, you can't force them. First of all taking away tv, food and everything else is not a smart move, you really do not want an angry mob of prisoners.
All I can say is sheesh....SMH. Maybe your ideas would work in Japan, but not here in the US. Sometimes I think the Muslims have it right for certain forms of punishment. Steal, and lose a hand. That would make the shiftless think twice before gangs of teens rob stores. It may even create a boom of jobs in the prosthetics field.
Liberals have coddled criminals way too much. The results are evident in every city.
 
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