48V Inverter for Off grid

[SolarJenny]

Hiya solar folks!

My Magna Sine MS4024PAE from Magnum Energy has failed and I’m in the market for a split phase 120 VAC/240 VAC 48V inverter. PV is 1.8 kw and I have four 12V agm 200ah batteries. Looking for an inverter that can handle inductive loads (washer, blender), access to data logs, ability to connect with wifi. I was looking into Outback Radian GS 4048, Schneider SW 4048, but it has 3800 watt output. Growing the system in the future, I would be interested in 4000-5000 watt output inverter. I want to use all my existing components. Starting off with the new inverter, I would setup my four agm 200ah batteries in series (48V 200amps) with incoming PV energy of ~65-70watts going into Midnite CC 150, also AC input from generator to inverter. Would this setup be enough to keep the system balanced? Do I run any risks of frying the batteries or inverter?

 

[Johneb]

For inverter I would recommend the Samlex EVO 4248sp. It has a surge value of 12000+ watts. Many more positives and customer service is exceptional.

 

[SolarJenny]

For inverter I would recommend the Samlex EVO 4248sp. It has a surge value of 12000+ watts. Many more positives and customer service is exceptional.

I checked out their product catalog and they seem like a great option. I saw their ACR (Automatic Charger Isolator) would I incorporate that unit for automatic generator start or is that strictly for DC input? If not, do you know what to use for AGS?

 

[Johneb]

The inverter can be programmed to start automatically if grid is lost.

 

[Johneb]

• Generator start can be initiated by “Status Relay” contact, can be programmed to activate when grid is lost.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Hiya solar folks!

My Magna Sine MS4024PAE from Magnum Energy has failed and I’m in the market for a split phase 120 VAC/240 VAC 48V inverter. PV is 1.8 kw and I have four 12V agm 200ah batteries. Looking for an inverter that can handle inductive loads (washer, blender), access to data logs, ability to connect with wifi. I was looking into Outback Radian GS 4048, Schneider SW 4048, but it has 3800 watt output. Growing the system in the future, I would be interested in 4000-5000 watt output inverter. I want to use all my existing components. Starting off with the new inverter, I would setup my four agm 200ah batteries in series (48V 200amps) with incoming PV energy of ~65-70watts going into Midnite CC 150, also AC input from generator to inverter. Would this setup be enough to keep the system balanced? Do I run any risks of frying the batteries or inverter?

Get the Outback Radian 8048

It's way better than any Samlex (not even in the same park) and somewhat better than the Schneider..

65 to 70 watts of PV energy is much to little to take care of a 200ah lead acid battery. They will never get the battery charged. For lead acid batteries, you need MORE solar array so you are assured of a full charge in 5 hours or less.

65-70 watts of PV isn't even enough to cover the idle current of most larger inverters. For a 200ah lead acid battery bank, you need at least 2000 watts of PV, and preferably 3000 or more.

What that 65-70 watts a typo? I sure hope it was.

 

[OffGridForGood]

What that 65-70 watts a typo? I sure hope it was.

OP says in first line "PV is 1.8kW" although I don't see what panels or how many to be able to confirm.

 

[OffGridForGood]

I’m in the market for a split phase 120 VAC/240 VAC 48V inverter.

Pretty open ended - it depends:
Some additional information would help, or at least guide the discussions a bit:
You comment on the system, and reference generator for back up, are you completely off-grid? ie no utility source available during low sun/cloudy days? - I ask since your battery pack is small, and your comment on the generator leads one to guess off-grid, since a kW produced by a generator is likely the most expensive kW you can get.
What loads you need to power, typically an energy audit of all devices, start up and running consumption, daily typical consumption for items that cycle etc. this will inform decisions on what size system you should have. There are templates you can use on the forum links.
Some info as to budget could be helpful, some inverters are low up-front cost, but maybe not the best long term.
What expansion or future loads you may want to power,
Do you own your property or do you rent - ie what can you do and not do to the property to support your system.
Santa - Cruz listed, gives us an idea of the solar potential, and climate. Do you run A/C in summer, daytime only (ie a load like this can run without a lot of battery since if its' not sunny perhaps you also don't need the A/C (perhaps).

 

[jdz]

The Outback runs 3-4 times the cost of the Samlex -- so I'd hope that it had some features that made it that much more valuable... A bit like comparing a Corolla to an S-Class Mercedes...

The Samlex is a good call, I'd also look at Victron Multiplus or Quattro if you can get by with single phase for awhile, then you can always add another inverter and have split phase at that point as budget allows. You don't have enough solar/battery to support most split phase loads unless they're pretty infrequent. What split phase loads are you needing to run?

 

[OffGridForGood]

The Samlex is a good call, I'd also look at Victron Multiplus or Quattro if you can get by with single phase

I didn't see on the spec sheet, wonder if you know the standby consumption for the Samlex?

 

[MurphyGuy]

For inverter I would recommend the Samlex EVO 4248sp. It has a surge value of 12000+ watts. Many more positives and customer service is exceptional.

A bit of false advertising there, which raises a lot of red flags in my book.

The 12000 watt surge capacity is rated for only 1 millisecond. That's 0.001 seconds, which is but a small fraction of a single 60hz sine wave.

 

[MurphyGuy]

I didn't see on the spec sheet, wonder if you know the standby consumption for the Samlex?

Standby is 30 watts in active mode, 8 watts in power saving mode, and 5 watts in standby (off)

It's a decent inverter for emergency use but I wouldn't recommend it for daily living.


Here's the specs.

https://samlexamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/12027-EVO-4248SP-0722.pdf

 

[OffGridForGood]

Standby is 30 watts in active mode, 8 watts in power saving mode, and 5 watts in standby (off)

That is impressive

It's a decent inverter for emergency use but I wouldn't recommend it for daily living.

Not for daily living? can you expand on why you feel that way? Curious.

 

[MurphyGuy]

That is impressive

Not for daily living? can you expand on why you feel that way? Curious.

It is my personal opinion based on the last 7 years of reading every forum on the internet, and 5 years of personal experience, that off-grid inverters meant for permanent daily use should be of the low frequency type.

High frequency inverters are fine for RV's, Boats, weekend cabins, and emergency storm backup systems when the grid goes down. But if you're living off-grid and your family's comfort is dependent upon your own power systems, then a low frequency inverter is the only way to go.

High frequency inverters work great for resistive loads but inductive loads tend to wear them down fast. They just don't handle those in-rush spikes very well, and even if they can "get it going", it is very hard on the high frequency inverter architecture.

High frequency inverters are also fine for grid tied inverters because there is no such loading on them, but for battery inverters, nothing last longer than a big honkin transformer with a heavy iron core.

 

[jdz]

So Victron is out... Kind've hard to believe as I'm pretty sure they sell a lot of inverters for 24/7 use. FWIW the Samlex weighs in the same as a Victron Quattro (66lbs)...

 

[Johneb]

I woul trust Samlex.

 

[SolarJenny]

OP says in first line "PV is 1.8kW" although I don't see what panels or how many to be able to confirm.

 

[SolarJenny]

There’s (2)330watt (12)100watt. I definitely will have room for another 330watt and two 100watt panels. Would that be enough to power a 48V/4000watt inverter?

 

[OffGridForGood]

There’s (2)330watt (12)100watt. I definitely will have room for another 330watt and two 100watt panels. Would that be enough to power a 48V/4000watt inverter?

Well yes, it will power it.
But the real question is: what are you trying to power with the inverter?

 

[SolarJenny]

• Generator start can be initiated by “Status Relay” contact, can be programmed to activate when grid is lost.

The system is completely off grid, no grid tie in. There would be a situation when the grid is lost. Is it triggered when battery voltage drops?