Sol-Ark 12K + Enphase IQ8 microinverters

[12kw_2021]

Are you AC coupling via the Gen port? If so, you may want to try AC coupling on the Load port at the end of all loads.

Hello
The short YouTube I linked came from solark and it recommended connection of ac coupled PV to the Gen port. So that's how I connected my enphase PV array.

The setup performed perfectly for several months, after I modified the enphase profile to zero export.

I am currently remote and trying to get the enphase combiner box to reconnect to my wifi so I can replace the zero export profile with the default operating profile that allows export.

If the remote software had the AC couple check box I could try to turn off my array then turn back on in hope's that the wifi would reconnect.

But it appears this option is only present on the solark screens on the inverter and not in the powerview app available to customers.

Solark engineering team disconnected my array on Friday remotely but neglected to reconnect as expected and agreed to during a support call.

Will contact them on Monday and hopefully they can address the issue and hopefully the enphase combiner box reconnects to my home wifi.

 

[solar8484]

Hello
The short YouTube I linked came from solark and it recommended connection of ac coupled PV to the Gen port. So that's how I connected my enphase PV array.

The setup performed perfectly for several months, after I modified the enphase profile to zero export.

I am currently remote and trying to get the enphase combiner box to reconnect to my wifi so I can replace the zero export profile with the default operating profile that allows export.

If the remote software had the AC couple check box I could try to turn off my array then turn back on in hope's that the wifi would reconnect.

But it appears this option is only present on the solark screens on the inverter and not in the powerview app available to customers.

Solark engineering team disconnected my array on Friday remotely but neglected to reconnect as expected and agreed to during a support call.

Will contact them on Monday and hopefully they can address the issue and hopefully the enphase combiner box reconnects to my home wifi.

Then video states the recommendation is for a 15K only as it has a much larger internal bus bar. My suggestion is in the context of a 12K with AC coupling problems unrelated to your situation.

For your problem, it sounds like the remote software needs to be updated to show/support the option you need.

 

[12kw_2021]

Hello

I spoke to solarc technical support this morning and they showed me how to enable and disable the AC connected solar using the power view app.

Just select equipment and the inverter will appear then press the three dots then select setting parameters.

Then select smartloads. The screen allows you to control how the Gen input pins operate.


Select michinv input then select save and the Gen inputs will have 240 volts and the en phase micro inverters will turn back on.

So it is possible to turn your AC coupled solar on and off remotely using the power view app.

Of course in my case simulating the grid down situation and turning off then back on my micro inverters did not cause them to reconnect to my Wi-Fi but at least I now know how to do it and the feature does exist in powerview hope this helps someone else somebody else.

Powerview screen capture attached so you see the screen I referenced.

Regards

 

[Techy D]

Are you AC coupling via the Gen port? If so, you may want to try AC coupling on the Load port at the end of all loads.

Yes, AC coupling through the Gen port. I tried it through the critical load panel a while back and same the same issue.

 

[solar8484]

Yes, AC coupling through the Gen port. I tried it through the critical load panel a while back and same the same issue.

If tuning the Solark battery settings don't improve things then it seems like there could be hardware issues (e.g. sensors).

 

[solar8484]

Yes, AC coupling through the Gen port. I tried it through the critical load panel a while back and same the same issue.

Had another thought. Does the Solark have a max battery charging current limit setting? If so, it needs to be higher than the max power from the micros.

 

[LydMekk]

Yes it has. Under battery settings from the main menu...
Should be as per the battery MFGs charge settings Amps * number of battery modules.

 

[wheisenburg]

As other people have mentioned all these micro inverters are "Grid Tied" or PV inverters. In order to operate they need an existing AC signal that they will sync with. Turn off that signal and they stop producing power. If the signal is interrupted, the inverter will need to see 5 minutes of continuously good power before they turn back on.

If you are connecting your PV to the generator input, it already has a breaker on that input. It will provide the PV inverters with the required signal. So as long as you are keeping your panel numbers within what your wires support you should be fine. If the circuit will have more than 16 amps (80% of 20), then it needs to be broken into multiple circuits. So 10 inverters at 295 watts each = (295 / 240) * 10 = 12.29 amps, you are fine. 20 inverters at 295 each = (295 / 240) * 20 = 24.58. That is too much current. You need a combiner box with individual breakers for each circuit. After the combiner box you connect the combined output into the generator input. The benefit of using the generator input is that it can cycle PV coupled arrays. They allow you turn the panels off say when SOC goes above 90% ands turn them back on when it drops below 80%.

There is one issue here. When you are grid tied, you want your panels to run at 100% all the time and just export the excess. During an outage the excess power needs to go somewhere. Turning the generator input on and off is a way of making sure that the PV won't overcharge the battery. Besides turning the input off sol ark can also also shift the frequency of the output signal. There is a convention that this will signal the microinverters to reduce their output. Older micro inverters may not support this, but turning the gen input off will turn the attached micros off.

When you are in off grid mode you will likely need to use a special "Off Grid Only" profile to get the micros to turn on. You need installer privileges on the Enphase system to update grid codes. Technically using a grid code other than your approved grid code while on grid is a violation of your permission to operate agreement. With out these special "off grid" profiles the micros anti-islanding tests may determine there is no grid and they will refuse to turn on. So technically if you want this panels to work during an outage, you would need to disconnect the grid entirely and then select an off grid profile for your micros. Then you would need to reselect your current grid profile before reconnecting to the grid. I can understand why you find this all pretty complicated. AC coupled works great for Grid tied PV inverters. Getting this all to work with all the different possible combinations of equipment and configurations, is far from straight forward. Just because a sales person for brand Y says it "should" work does not mean it WILL work. Then they say well our brand Y equipment is fine it is brand X that has the problem. If you call brand X you get the same thing.

So here's the bottom line. If you are just looking to get this to work while on grid, you should be fine. If you want this to seamlessly switch over and work off grid after a power failure, good luck. I'm in the same boat. If I get it to all work I will let you know.

 

[mgdean]

I'm wondering if it would be possible to supplement a PV DC system connected to a Sol-Ark 12K with a few more panels with Enphase IQ8 microinverters connected to the Sol-Ark's generator inputs?. What do the IQ8s need for them to turn on?. How do you turn them off for RSD requirements?.

My understanding for AC coupled power on a Sol Ark 12k is you will need to be grid tied and export all the power generated to the grid.

 

[12kw_2021]

As other people have mentioned all these micro inverters are "Grid Tied" or PV inverters. In order to operate they need an existing AC signal that they will sync with. Turn off that signal and they stop producing power. If the signal is interrupted, the inverter will need to see 5 minutes of continuously good power before they turn back on.

If you are connecting your PV to the generator input, it already has a breaker on that input. It will provide the PV inverters with the required signal. So as long as you are keeping your panel numbers within what your wires support you should be fine. If the circuit will have more than 16 amps (80% of 20), then it needs to be broken into multiple circuits. So 10 inverters at 295 watts each = (295 / 240) * 10 = 12.29 amps, you are fine. 20 inverters at 295 each = (295 / 240) * 20 = 24.58. That is too much current. You need a combiner box with individual breakers for each circuit. After the combiner box you connect the combined output into the generator input. The benefit of using the generator input is that it can cycle PV coupled arrays. They allow you turn the panels off say when SOC goes above 90% ands turn them back on when it drops below 80%.

There is one issue here. When you are grid tied, you want your panels to run at 100% all the time and just export the excess. During an outage the excess power needs to go somewhere. Turning the generator input on and off is a way of making sure that the PV won't overcharge the battery. Besides turning the input off sol ark can also also shift the frequency of the output signal. There is a convention that this will signal the microinverters to reduce their output. Older micro inverters may not support this, but turning the gen input off will turn the attached micros off.

When you are in off grid mode you will likely need to use a special "Off Grid Only" profile to get the micros to turn on. You need installer privileges on the Enphase system to update grid codes. Technically using a grid code other than your approved grid code while on grid is a violation of your permission to operate agreement. With out these special "off grid" profiles the micros anti-islanding tests may determine there is no grid and they will refuse to turn on. So technically if you want this panels to work during an outage, you would need to disconnect the grid entirely and then select an off grid profile for your micros. Then you would need to reselect your current grid profile before reconnecting to the grid. I can understand why you find this all pretty complicated. AC coupled works great for Grid tied PV inverters. Getting this all to work with all the different possible combinations of equipment and configurations, is far from straight forward. Just because a sales person for brand Y says it "should" work does not mean it WILL work. Then they say well our brand Y equipment is fine it is brand X that has the problem. If you call brand X you get the same thing.

So here's the bottom line. If you are just looking to get this to work while on grid, you should be fine. If you want this to seamlessly switch over and work off grid after a power failure, good luck. I'm in the same boat. If I get it to all work I will let you know.

I have 30 iq7a enphase micro inverters up and running connected to my gen input pins on a 15K sol-ark each micro inverter is supposed to max out at around 350 watts. So my AC coupled install could feed as much as 12 KW to the solark with no issue.

I have a battery attached that's 560 amp hours and I see no need to enable and disable the Gen port the sol-ark seems to be able to manage my situation.

If I go outside and turn off my main grid power cut off switch the system stays up and continues to run and generate PV power

I worked for several weeks with solarc to adjust the setup to eliminate any grid export because my install was not approved. Tech supported solarc indicated that my settings should prevent grid export but nothing they did worked to prevent that.

I finally gave up and used my installer application to replace the grid profile on the enphase inverters with a zero export profile over the last two months that has worked perfectly and the enphase profile reduces the power produced to match the need to charge batteries and when the batteries are full it reduces the power to match the load.

I understand the iq8 inverters are a different beast but that's been my experience for what it's worth I did not see any evidence that the PV was disabled if I removed the grid and just let the sol-arc and the battery feedback the 240 volts on the Gen pins to simulate the grid.

Just sharing my experience

 

[wheisenburg]

Thanks,

That is good to know.

Could you tell me what profile you are using for this?

In my case since I can export when "On Grid", I would not want to use the zero export profile all the time. If the grid does go down for an extended period, it sounds like this Zero Export profile might work for me.

I haven't given up on getting this to work, but I think anyone expecting this is going to be "Turn Key" is going to be disappointed. Everyone that has gotten this AC coupling to work seems to have gone through some extensive experimentation to get their specific configuration to work. I already have on the list, trying an Off Grid profile. I have a main disconnect that allows me to entirely isolate my system from the grid. I just turn the grid off and then switch the profile on the Enphase.

As far as the disabling the gen port, my understanding is that sol ark handles that automatically if the frequency shifting is insufficient to control charge rate. I am looking to up my battery size. 15KWHs is a bare minimum. I am planning to go to 30KWH.

 

[12kw_2021]

Thanks,

That is good to know. In my case since I can export when "On Grid", I would want to use the zero export profile all the time. If the grid does go down for an extended period, it sounds like this might work for me. Could you tell me what profile you are using for this?

"IEE 1547 DEFAULT 2015 , No export"

is the grid profile that works perfectly to allow battery to charge, support loads, and when battery is full it gracefully decreases the PV on sunny days to just meet home loads.

Note that I had to call Enphase tech support to install this profile I did it with my installer app it indicated it was installed but it wasn't and I don't understand that so just call enphase tech support and ask them to install it

 

[solar8484]

When you are in off grid mode you will likely need to use a special "Off Grid Only" profile to get the micros to turn on. You need installer privileges on the Enphase system to update grid codes. Technically using a grid code other than your approved grid code while on grid is a violation of your permission to operate agreement. With out these special "off grid" profiles the micros anti-islanding tests may determine there is no grid and they will refuse to turn on. So technically if you want this panels to work during an outage, you would need to disconnect the grid entirely and then select an off grid profile for your micros. Then you would need to reselect your current grid profile before reconnecting to the grid.

This is only true if your Enphase micros are directly connected to the PCC. If your Enphase micros are on the load side of an interconnection compliant home battery system (e.g. Powerwall) or hybrid inverter (e.g. Outback Radian) then they can use off grid profiles at all times and there is no need to switch. You can verify this with Enphase.

 

[12kw_2021]

double post in error, second post deleted

 

[wheisenburg]

This is only true if your Enphase micros are directly connected to the PCC. If your Enphase micros are on the load side of an interconnection compliant home battery system (e.g. Powerwall) or hybrid inverter (e.g. Outback Radian) then they can use off grid profiles at all times and there is no need to switch. You can verify this with Enphase.

I would assume that if Enphase is saying this they probably believe it, but the utility company that you are connecting to has the last word on this.

While earlier in Solar's evolution there was one main purpose for the interconnect standards. That was to make sure that the solar system would stop producing power when there was an outage. At that time the standard was based on "when in doubt disconnect". The newer standards have some additional requirements. These newer requirements are actually concerned with making sure that your system does NOT disconnect and "Nuisance Trip" off line when it should stay connected. California Rule 21 has lots of requirements related to this. With solar making up an increasing percentage of the power in many areas, these standards require low frequency and low voltage "ride through". The purpose of this is to prevent a small power disturbance from turning into a large cascading disconnect of solar systems which would make the problem worse. There are also portions of the standard that require panels to reduce their output in case of high voltage and high frequency. The purpose of these standards is to increase the stability of the grid.

So if you are in California and are required to be rule 21 compliant, that really does mean that your micros would need to be rule 21 compliant, even if they are on the load side of another device. Until you actually are "Off Grid", the hybrid inverter is essentially acting as a pass through and your micros are acting as if though they are wired to the grid, because they are actually wired to the grid.

If you asked a utility company, they might give you a different opinion on whether having a hybrid inverter acting as a pass through, would turn a non-compliant profile into a compliant profile. Now is the utility company going to come and check your micros to see what profile you are running? Probably not, but technically I think Enphase is wrong about this.

In your case it looks like they installed "IEE 1547 DEFAULT 2015 , No export". This profile likely does meet the IEE 1547 2015 requirements, with a small change for the no export. So, I would assume this is fine, but some random off grid profile may not be compliant.

 

[solar8484]

I would assume that if Enphase is saying this they probably believe it, but the utility company that you are connecting to has the last word on this.

While earlier in Solar's evolution there was one main purpose for the interconnect standards. That was to make sure that the solar system would stop producing power when there was an outage. At that time the standard was based on "when in doubt disconnect". The newer standards have some additional requirements. These newer requirements are actually concerned with making sure that your system does NOT disconnect and "Nuisance Trip" off line when it should stay connected. California Rule 21 has lots of requirements related to this. With solar making up an increasing percentage of the power in many areas, these standards require low frequency and low voltage "ride through". The purpose of this is to prevent a small power disturbance from turning into a large cascading disconnect of solar systems which would make the problem worse. There are also portions of the standard that require panels to reduce their output in case of high voltage and high frequency. The purpose of these standards is to increase the stability of the grid.

So if you are in California and are required to be rule 21 compliant, that really does mean that your micros would need to be rule 21 compliant, even if they are on the load side of another device. Until you actually are "Off Grid", the hybrid inverter is essentially acting as a pass through and your micros are acting as if though they are wired to the grid, because they are actually wired to the grid.

If you asked a utility company, they might give you a different opinion on whether having a hybrid inverter acting as a pass through, would turn a non-compliant profile into a compliant profile. Now is the utility company going to come and check your micros to see what profile you are running? Probably not, but technically I think Enphase is wrong about this.

In your case it looks like they installed "IEE 1547 DEFAULT 2015 , No export". This profile likely does meet the IEE 1547 2015 requirements, with a small change for the no export. So, I would assume this is fine, but some random off grid profile may not be compliant.

Feel free to check with PoCo's yourself but in general, PUC/PoCo's interconnection rules don't apply to things behind the PCC. But, just for clarification, there is nothing preventing you from having a grid profile that comply with the CA Rule 21 ride-through requirements but with anti-islanding disabled. Remember, the purpose of anti-islanding is to protect against "unintentional" islanding while connected to the grid for safety reasons. Your micros behind a interconnect compliant (i.e. active anti-islanding on the grid side) hybrid inverter will disconnect (via a switch) your micros from the grid side in grid outages so there is no risk of backfeeding the grid.

 

[Techy D]

Success!!!

I finally got it working! I appreciate all the advice from everyone on here as I performed many many tests over that past few months from all your suggestions. It was my more in depth conversation with @DER Solar and also suggestions from @BenW that finally got it working.

Just to reiterate my situation:

On the site there is 24 x Enphase IQ8+ micros AC coupled into the GEN port of the Sol-Ark 12K, no DC coupled solar. 16 x Rolls S6 460AGM battery bank used for partial home backup.

Essentially this is what I did to get it working. I Drained the batteries down to 60% using the % charged SOC mode on the Solark - the GEN port relay opens as soon as the grid power is lost. What made it successful was switching back to the Enphase default grid profile. Up until this point I had it on the CA rule 21 profile (and tried many many others) with no success even at 60% SOC the micros still did strange things like shut on and off and would not turn on. The reconnect time for the CA rule 21 profile was 10 seconds which I think was messing with the micros. As soon as I switched to the default profile after 5 minutes all 24 micros fired up instantly and produced full power at just over 7kW. I don't think I can upload it but I have a video of it working, maybe I'll take screenshots. Enphase did perform a firmware update for my site but I'm not convinced that was the determining factor. I think the default grid profile and low battery SOC without frequency shifting were the main factors to get it going.

I performed many tests to try and see if anything would make it unstable and crash like what I have been witnessing up until this point but every single time the micros came back on around 5 min and 15 seconds later and fully cranking at 7kW. It was a beautiful sunny day and I had this working for over 2 hours off grid and charged the batteries back up from 60% to about 80% as well as powered loads. I have never seen it work this smoothly before, like I said I had only ever had it working for maybe 2 minutes before it would crash and burn. I am confident and am considering this is a success! Before this even turning on a space heater or a larger load would trigger the micros off and I could never get them to turn back on.

 

[solar8484]

Success!!!

I finally got it working! I appreciate all the advice from everyone on here as I performed many many tests over that past few months from all your suggestions. It was my more in depth conversation with @DER Solar and also suggestions from @BenW that finally got it working.

Just to reiterate my situation:

On the site there is 24 x Enphase IQ8+ micros AC coupled into the GEN port of the Sol-Ark 12K, no DC coupled solar. 16 x Rolls S6 460AGM battery bank used for partial home backup.

Essentially this is what I did to get it working. I Drained the batteries down to 60% using the % charged SOC mode on the Solark - the GEN port relay opens as soon as the grid power is lost. What made it successful was switching back to the Enphase default grid profile. Up until this point I had it on the CA rule 21 profile (and tried many many others) with no success even at 60% SOC the micros still did strange things like shut on and off and would not turn on. The reconnect time for the CA rule 21 profile was 10 seconds which I think was messing with the micros. As soon as I switched to the default profile after 5 minutes all 24 micros fired up instantly and produced full power at just over 7kW. I don't think I can upload it but I have a video of it working, maybe I'll take screenshots. Enphase did perform a firmware update for my site but I'm not convinced that was the determining factor. I think the default grid profile and low battery SOC without frequency shifting were the main factors to get it going.

I performed many tests to try and see if anything would make it unstable and crash like what I have been witnessing up until this point but every single time the micros came back on around 5 min and 15 seconds later and fully cranking at 7kW. It was a beautiful sunny day and I had this working for over 2 hours off grid and charged the batteries back up from 60% to about 80% as well as powered loads. I have never seen it work this smoothly before, like I said I had only ever had it working for maybe 2 minutes before it would crash and burn. I am confident and am considering this is a success! Before this even turning on a space heater or a larger load would trigger the micros off and I could never get them to turn back on.

That's great. I assume default profile means IEEE1547-2015? It would be best if you can share the actual grid profile name. Also, the iQ8 firmware version. So, is 60% the highest SOC that iQ8's can sync up at? Is 80% the max SOC the iQ8's can charge the batteries to? Do the iQ8's stop working at 80% SOC?

 

[Techy D]

That's great. I assume default profile means IEEE1547-2015? It would be best if you can share the actual grid profile name. Also, the iQ8 firmware version. So, is 60% the highest SOC that iQ8's can sync up at? Is 80% the max SOC the iQ8's can charge the batteries to? Do the iQ8's stop working at 80% SOC?

Firmware is - 521-00005-r06-v02.56.01

The Sol-Ark will close the GEN port relay when the SOC reaches 60% turning on the microinverters. Once the batteries charge up to 85% the relay is opened and the solar turns off. It may work at a higher SOC such as 70% instead of 60% but I wanted to make sure the batteries can accept the current inrush from the solar without any issues.

 

[Shimmy]

I thought the SolArk was capable of modulating volts/frequency to trigger curtailment on the Enphase side. Guess not.