Just installed some EasyStarts on 5 ton AC

Dave911 said:

nyone can buy Goodman control boards, blowers, etc. I bought a spare

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reminder for buying some spare boards, working on it.

When I could not patch & repair our 35+ year old R-22 FHP system, I obtained quotes from vendors for a modern replacement.
The factory brands (Carrier, Trane, etc) were more $$$ than I had to spend, so I went for the "Supply House" brand, Goodman.
Here, anybody w/ a pickup truck and an account can buy a pile'o Goodman heat pump parts, install them, get paid, and disappear.

I had read many complaints about the quality and reliability.

Downloaded and read the installation manuals, made a quiz, administered to the contractors
that came to provide quotes.
None of them could provide the correct answers.

So they were just Gypsies that threw the equipment in place and got paid.
No wonder there were reliability issues, and the resulting bad reputation.

I did not want them doing the install, so I made a deal to buy the Goodman parts and supplies, my son & I installed it all,
had them come back and charge it w/ R-410A when we were done.
(I tried to find a way to get a license to buy R-410A, only found very expensive training classes)

The Goodman documentation was excellent, and we followed the instructions exactly, took our time.
Running perfectly since 2017.
I put in a Micro-air Easystart in early 2022, when I connected the heat pump to the Schneider XW-Pro inverters, great!!!
132LRA dropped to 38A

Last i checked, 410 didnt need a license to buy, but that may have changed.
It is approaching criminal the number of "techs" out there who actually are mildly qualified parts changers, with sales experience...

Ive done this since 84, and have seen tech come and go, trained guys and girls how to do this, and learn more every day.

I found it really easy to install mine. I do wonder how they manage to screw it up...

RCinFLA said:

Another little secret is EasyStart with BT comm only measures current on compressor Run winding. It does not measure auxiliary (start) winding current.

Click to expand...

It also does not measure the fan motor current.

SparkyJJO said:

I found it really easy to install mine. I do wonder how they manage to screw it up...

Click to expand...

Lack of concern.
A focus on get paid, go to the next one...
Instead of do the best job for the client.

Will, in your video you mentioned not using these in a batteryless grid tie system. I was wondering if you could expand why not.

You also say if running off grid with critical loads but ac is not on critical loads, then this is not needed.

Putting these two scenarios together, is the soft start a good option for a batteryless grid tie system with a critical loads panel and the ac is on the critical loads panel?

Essentially I’d be moving my ac from grid to solar and with the soft start hopefully reducing the amount of solar I need.

dhall1793 said:

Will, in your video you mentioned not using these in a batteryless grid tie system. I was wondering if you could expand why not.

You also say if running off grid with critical loads but ac is not on critical loads, then this is not needed.

Putting these two scenarios together, is the soft start a good option for a batteryless grid tie system with a critical loads panel and the ac is on the critical loads panel?

Essentially I’d be moving my ac from grid to solar and with the soft start hopefully reducing the amount of solar I need.

Click to expand...

The grid has no problem starting an AC unit, thus there is no benefit of going to the expense and trouble of installing easy start. But, if you have an AC unit on a critical loads panel you would want it to start successfully when off grid so it would be logical to use an easy start in that setup. But, I’m guessing that most people who have a system big enough to run a large AC unit when the grid is down are probably able to go off grid permanently- or as some people say, use the grid as a backup only when they have a problem with the off grid system.

MajicDiver said:

The grid has no problem starting an AC unit, thus there is no benefit of going to the expense and trouble of installing easy start.

Click to expand...

I thought it was mentioned that it’s easier on the compressor and it might lead to greater longevity by using the easy start?

dhall1793 said:

Will, in your video you mentioned not using these in a batteryless grid tie system. I was wondering if you could expand why not.

You also say if running off grid with critical loads but ac is not on critical loads, then this is not needed.

Putting these two scenarios together, is the soft start a good option for a batteryless grid tie system with a critical loads panel and the ac is on the critical loads panel?

Essentially I’d be moving my ac from grid to solar and with the soft start hopefully reducing the amount of solar I need.

Click to expand...

An easy start will NOT reduce the solar you need to operate the ac. It will reduce the size of the inverter you need to START the ac unit up… the wattage the ac consumes will not be affected by an easy start.

Danke said:

I thought it was mentioned that it’s easier on the compressor and it might lead to greater longevity by using the easy start?

Click to expand...

I won’t go into details, but I’ve heard AC people I respect explain why an easy start can cause premature failure of compressor. As with everything, its complex and the details of a particular product and particular compressor in specific types of installations matter. It’s a complex world we live in.

MajicDiver said:

I won’t go into details, but I’ve heard AC people I respect explain why an easy start can cause premature failure of compressor.

Click to expand...

Why not go into detail if you think the concerns are valid?

The main reason I will be getting one is to make it easier for my generator to start my AC during an outage. My generator will start my 4 ton unit, but gripes about it. Can’t be good for the generator or the compressor.

However, I do wonder about the possible trade offs (compressor longevity) when using a soft start unit since I don’t think they have been around long enough to get substantial long term failure statistics. Due to the ease of wiring it in, I have contemplated only using it during outages. One could even accomplish that with a switch or two.

MajicDiver said:

I won’t go into details, but I’ve heard AC people I respect explain why an easy start can cause premature failure of compressor. As with everything, its complex and the details of a particular product and particular compressor in specific types of installations matter. It’s a complex world we live i

Click to expand...

I would say the typical AC service personnel I have seen work has a much higher probability of causing premature failure of compressor than an Easystart softstarter does.

Supervstech said:

An easy start will NOT reduce the solar you need to operate the ac. It will reduce the size of the inverter you need to START the ac unit up… the wattage the ac consumes will not be affected by an easy start.

Click to expand...

I need to see what the AC pulls in current but yes I realize the power consumption won’t change. I should have been more specific. I was thinking if I reduce the inverter size I reduce the amount of panels I need. A load is a load.

MajicDiver said:

The grid has no problem starting an AC unit, thus there is no benefit of going to the expense and trouble of installing easy start. But, if you have an AC unit on a critical loads panel you would want it to start successfully when off grid so it would be logical to use an easy start in that setup. But, I’m guessing that most people who have a system big enough to run a large AC unit when the grid is down are probably able to go off grid permanently- or as some people say, use the grid as a backup only when they have a problem with the off grid system.

Click to expand...

The benefit would be the cooling of your house is free during the day running off solar. I don’t have flat billing so my utility bill approaches $350-400 in the summer. With a hybrid inverter or grid tie in solar priority mode I’m thinking solar during the day grid at night would reduce my bill. I inherited 2200W of panels. Maybe the right question is is that even enough to run the unit. I just want to bring the bill down haha.

I also would have thought that even on grid that would reduce wear and tear. But I probably wouldn’t do it for on grid either.

Texas-Mark said:

The main reason I will be getting one is to make it easier for my generator to start my AC during an outage. My generator will start my 4 ton unit, but gripes about it. Can’t be good for the generator or the compressor.

Click to expand...

The same people who expressed to me their concerns about adverse effects of easy start on compressor life also install generator backup systems. They use hard starts on ac units that need to start on generators (of course that would not work with an inverter) They say a hard start does cause more initial stress, but the effect on lifetime is not measurable and they have many, many years of successful experience using them. They say the extended time periods at low voltage that an easy start invokes will result in higher temperatures in the compressor during the extended start and while it may turn out that after many, many years of experience the impact is also not measurable, they believe it will be.

Now, for my opinion, much like the medical field- if you don’t have the disease, don’t take the medicine or if you personally have no risk of problems with CoVid, don’t take the even tiny risk associated with the vaccine and any vaccine. The same goes for an AC unit, if you don’t need to start it offgrid, there probably is no benefit to justify the risk of an easy start.

dhall1793 said:

The benefit would be the cooling of your house is free during the day running off solar

Click to expand...

That is what we did, put a Micro-Air EasyStart on the 4T compressor, no changes to the air handler.
Also put some of the other things on the solar:
2-pool pumps, well pump, water heater.

Made a BIG difference in the Summer electric bill.

pvdude said:

That is what we did, put a Micro-Air EasyStart on the 4T compressor, no changes to the air handler.
Also put some of the other things on the solar:
2-pool pumps, well pump, water heater.

Made a BIG difference in the Summer electric bill.

Click to expand...

This is great info thanks. I don’t want to make my home off grid just trying to take advantage of the benefits of solar if I already have panels laying around. I went for the biggest load in my mind but moving the water heater is a great idea too. Will definitely do this is my array isn’t big enough to power the ac unit.

dhall1793 said:

big enough to power the ac unit.

Click to expand...

Which do you mean? Big enough to “power” when gridtied or “big enough to start off grid”?

MajicDiver said:

They say the extended time periods at low voltage that an easy start invokes will result in higher temperatures in the compressor during the extended start

Click to expand...

But how much time are we talking about? A few extra milliseconds? A HVAC by nature is self cooling so I’m not sure if a second of added heat will have any long term effects.

However, as I said I don’t think there is enough long term data to day either way.

MajicDiver said:

They use hard starts on ac units that need to start on generators

Click to expand...

A hard start for generator use seems counterproductive unless they are hawking larger generators.

MajicDiver said:

Which do you mean? Big enough to “power” when gridtied or “big enough to start off grid”?

Click to expand...

When grid tied. I don’t know if I would go through the trouble of moving the ac to a critical loads panel if the array is not capable of supplying enough input to the inverter to run the ac unit completely off solar.

Maybe I have the wrong understanding of a grid tie inverter. Can a grid tie inverter supply power to a critical loads panel as well as supplement current from the grid at the same time through its AC input if the array is not large enough to support the ac unit running completely off the inverter?