my third up in smoke story, technically its my second timeline wise.. but who is counting?

so I related how my failure to correctly torque down a cable led to a 2g cable getting very hot (no fire thank god). but what I did not relate was that right before this, I toasted a generator.

so I have 10kw diesel 3 phase genset that i use to power welders (real ones, not 120 volt craftsmen units) as well as compressors and car lift. i also have it hard wired into my inverter but only at 120. the inverter cannot handle 3phase power as its 120° out of phase compared to 240 split phase which is 180° out of phase. it causes the inverter to overheat when trying to rectify the phases. but you can use 120 input, but you can only charge at half of the rate compared to 240. so 30 amps at 48 volts. I also have(had) a gasoline makita genset from the early 90's that did 20 amps at 240 split phase.

so, the 10kw is hard wired but you can shut it off via its circuit breaker. the 5.5kw makita was a 240 lug, and it has its own breaker. so dumb ass me is charging up the new battery banks with the diesel genset while using the compressor and the lift. but it was taking forever and the temp sensors on the inverter were reading fairly high so i decided to start the smaller 240 genset and allow it to charge while using the 10kw to run the 3 phase stuff. yep.. forgot to shut off the breaker ont he 10kw and it smoked something in the makita. problem is its a 30+ year old genset and parts are no longer available.

my first thought was the diode set, jacks small engines has them listed but cancelled my order saying the part was no longer available. so i found one on EBAY used, and tried it.. no dice, the genset only makes 70-80 volts per leg when it should be making 120 per leg.

any ideas? thinking i might need to just junk it as parts are no longer easily available, which is sad as it only has about 300 hours on it. all of which I put on it after buying it used but stored for over 30 years.

thing is I do not even need it in reality as other than commissioning my new battery banks the panels provide more than enough and the bank is sized to carry me through 7 days of zero output... the 10 kw will charge up the bank, its just slower.

oh and this was a beer involved accident...

Since you already explored repairing it with out success it sounds like it is junk time. Shame but nothing lasts forever. Especially when concentration lapses. I almost toasted my DMM a couple days back by checking a battery for voltage without paying attention to the fact the last time I used the meter was for testing amperage. It was early morning and I was not not at my mental best. The resulting spark and minor fused metal at the probe tip was a wake up. Just luck the meter is still working.

Sucks when parts dry up. While the genset maybe no good anymore it sounds like you still have a good engine for other projects or salvage generators.

Head on over to www.smokstak.com and ask in that forum. Lots of people there with tons of generator knowledge.

Possibly damaged/shorted windings.

SparkyJJO said:

Possibly damaged/shorted windings.

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this is my biggest worry. trying to source all the components in the "box" diodes, capacitor etc. and hoping for the best. it suck because the thing only has a couple of hundred hours on it. it was a unicorn here in japan getting a 240 split phase unit. should have been more sober I think.

Maybe next safety item for you will be a breathalyzer. If under 0.05, proceed with technical tasks. Sorry to hear of your generators passing

Brucey said:

Maybe next safety item for you will be a breathalyzer. If under 0.05, proceed with technical tasks. Sorry to hear of your generators passing

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it falls under hold my beer... or shit happens. flip a coin

Brucey said:

Maybe next safety item for you will be a breathalyzer. If under 0.05,

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Brucey said:

Maybe next safety item for you will be a breathalyzer. If under 0.05, proceed with technical tasks. Sorry to hear of your generators passing

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this whole thing for me is a way to spend time. in other words a basic time wasting exercise. I could pay to have someone else build the whole system. i could simply pay for TEPCO to bring poles and line out. I could do a lot of things, but one thing this forum has brought me is a lot of fun at Sniping at all of you Smurfs




Joking, I learn a lot each time I come on hear even though i probably seem like an ass with some of my posts... (who am i kidding?) its part and parcel.

I've had an alternator that didn't charge well. Rebuild shop simply replaced triode (which I'd burned out messing with wiring), but having been there done that I questioned that. With a scope hooked up, they observed dropouts in waveform, determined there was damaged insulation and rewound it. After which it was OK. So try monitoring waveform.

Is there proper way to test windings in situ? We used a growler for motor armatures. Not sure if that finds all sorts of damaged insulation, if voltage is sufficient to arc across or whatever.

Since you've got a bigger 3-phase generator, consider an isolation to convert 208 to 120/240V split-phase.

Or 208V battery charger (or inverter) to charge from other two legs.

Brucey said:

Maybe next safety item for you will be a breathalyzer. If under 0.05, proceed with technical tasks. Sorry to hear of your generators passing

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If I just could lock out my my tools and Amazon shopping cart with a breathalyzer...... deep sigh... I'd also have lock out the breathalyzer's lockout settings or it would all be for naught.

Daddy Tanuki said:

oh and this was a beer involved accident...

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Hedges said:

Or 208V battery charger (or inverter) to charge from other two legs.

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this is why i have been researching the new chargeverter for. going to put one on one side of the diesel and test it and if all goes well will probably order another one to run two on the diesel to help balance the load.

Daddy Tanuki said:

any ideas? thinking i might need to just junk it as parts are no longer easily available, which is sad as it only has about 300 hours on it. all of which I put on it after buying it used but stored for over 30 years.

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Might be worth giving your friendly local repair shop a try.
I have been pleasantly surprised before. Hoping that the same awaits for you.

shvm said:

Might be worth giving your friendly local repair shop a try.
I have been pleasantly surprised before. Hoping that the same awaits for you.

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kind words, but japan is all about disposing and buying new... but I will try, just because.

There is only one 110v welder I would use for my shop but it does 140 amps at 100% duty cycle. You just have to make sure you use a 30 amp circuit for full 140 amp goodness.
The transformer is at least twice the size of any other I’ve seen on a 110v welder.

Ck systematics made the snap-on FM140 and a couple of others but their rep. suffers because snap-on also sells welders from lesser manufacturers.

So many welders are weakened by lack of robust voltage supply.

Why did you intentionally connect one phase to the inverter and imbalance the gen? Why did you intentionally connect a second single phase generator? (Yes, I read your story, shaking my head the whole time) You "should" have disconnected the 3 phase gen and never used it again on the system!

I am guessing that you might have also tried to mix a little gasoline with diesel to run your generator?

shopman said:

Head on over to www.smokstak.com and ask in that forum. Lots of people there with tons of generator knowledge.

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That’s a good group..

HowlerMonkey said:

There is only one 110v welder I would use for my shop but it does 140 amps at 100% duty cycle. You just have to make sure you use a 30 amp circuit for full 140 amp goodness.
The transformer is at least twice the size of any other I’ve seen on a 110v welder.

Ck systematics made the snap-on FM140 and a couple of others but their rep. suffers because snap-on also sells welders from lesser manufacturers.

So many welders are weakened by lack of robust voltage supply.

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you lost me but OK...

JungleTim said:

Why did you intentionally connect one phase to the inverter and imbalance the gen? Why did you intentionally connect a second single phase generator? (Yes, I read your story, shaking my head the whole time) You "should" have disconnected the 3 phase gen and never used it again on the system!

I am guessing that you might have also tried to mix a little gasoline with diesel to run your generator?

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obviously reading comprehension eludes you or you would have understood that I was discontinuing the use of one genset while hooking up another. just forgot to open the circuit.

To answer the first part, no I did not run it unbalanced, even though its a 3 phase, it has 120 single phase as well on a separate circuit/output which is what i was using. so it was designed to be able to put out 3 phase power as well as one 3kw circuit of single phase. The inverter can use either 240 plit phase, or 120 single phase. on 120 you have to set its output to 50% on split phase you can run it at 100% provided the genset can handle it
where you got the last part I have no clue. Diesel comes form the diesel tank which is used for the genset, two of the trucks, and the log splitter as its diesel as well. gasoline on the other hand comes from the gas tanks and is for the last truck, quads, and 3 wheelers, and mixed with 2 stroke oil for chainsaws and brushcutters.

its water under the bridge either way as it gave me a good excuse to purchase my chargverters which i have wired up to the 3p genset and can charge with some authority.

Seems like the tea total experts are jumping on the bandwagon here, I try and save the beer for after I've done my jobs and got all hot and sweaty

Do you have a manual for it?

Have you just tested the diode pack? I realize you can't test leakage but just a basic short or open should tell you something?

Do you have access to an inductance meter? You could check the windings against each other?
If not you should be able to learn something with a straight ohm meter. That will tell you open or short and if they read way off from each other it means something. Do both rotator and stator.

Is the slip ring clean and happy?

Is the voltage regulator happy? If not any generic of the right size would work.

And I assume you checked the brushes?

Just thinking what I would check.

And anything but a rewind job would be fixable. And even that should fixable if you can find a good shop.

robbob2112 said:

Anything but a rewind job would be fixable. And even that should fixable if you can find a good shop.

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Japan is funny in that way, a good shop tends to be one in the whole county with a 80+year old man who will only do one skill eg rewind motors/transformers and will likely be too busy with jobs from NASA, nuclear power stations or some other extremely important application to rewind your genset. Sadly trades like this are very much in decline in japan and the younger generation would much prefer to stay locked up at home and fap off to hentai.

Quattrohead said:

Seems like the tea total experts are jumping on the bandwagon here, I try and save the beer for after I've done my jobs and got all hot and sweaty

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thats how I normally do it as well, but you get one project done, its hot you have a beer or two or and next thing you know youa re tinkering with something else and boom, another up in smoke thread gets created

ThaiTaffy said:

Japan is funny in that way, a good shop tends to be one in the whole county with a 80+year old man who will only do one skill eg rewind motors/transformers and will likely be too busy with jobs from NASA, nuclear power stations or some other extremely important application to rewind your genset. Sadly trades like this are very much in decline in japan and the younger generation would much prefer to stay locked up at home and fap off to hentai.

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Our man in Thailand knows exactly whats going on here in Japan.

I tend to move fast, so in the end I cannibalized the genset for other projects...

the engine was of course in perfect shape so it sold to a friend to replace a blown engine on a chipper unit of his. he is buying the engine form me for ¥80,000. I paid ¥85,000 for the genset three years ago used. the engine is a Robin Subaru that is very popular here in Japan for the 10-14hp class, and they are known for being pretty much bullet proof, so I am out about $30.00 USD after using it for three years.

the fuel tank, ignition switch, starter relay and battery were used on my logsplitter when i installed the diesel engine.

so i look at it as a break even. It was just nice having a 240 slit phase genset as they are rarer then rare here in japan. almost all gensets over here are either single phase 100 or three phase 208/240. like I said though I already bought the chargeverters so that area is taken care of for the foreseeable future.

Daddy Tanuki said:

thats how I normally do it as well, but you get one project done, its hot you have a beer or two or and next thing you know youa re tinkering with something else and boom, another up in smoke thread gets created

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I gave up alcohol years ago but never really bothered to do things drunk, jazz cabbage on the other hand caused many a "Up in Smoke due to Smoke" moment and eventually gave that up also, my only vice now is cigarettes and coffee and I generally know when I've had too much coffee because soldering becomes impossible due to the jitters.