Possibly. But explicit answers are better than guesses.
Live Ground Shocked 5 Year Old
- Thread starter Joshua787
- Start date
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
You'd have to be barefoot on wet ground to have a chance of drawing a current you could feel that way. But that's why kids always find the shock, because they're full of potential.
Now that the L2 bonding is removed, and you are still getting odd readings with a meter, the next step is to create a proper grounding system.
All ground rods need to be connected to the EGC conductor, and it needs to be correctly fed to the main panel, and bonding conductors need to go from the main Ground terminals to EVERY METALLIC COMPONENT IN THE SYSTEM.
BE SURE BOTH INVERTERS ARE OFF FIRST.
Run full size grounding conductors to each panel or equipment cabinet and to the container. Not with a tapping screw, with a hole drilled in the container, a bolt run through the container, with any paint removed around the bolt, and a proper lug attached to the bolt, and the grounding conductor fed to the lug.
In the panels, use the grounding terminals, not a screw through the cabinet.
AFTER the grounding system is bulletproof, and all equipment and metal components are bonded to the grounding system, go to the FIRST disconnecting means with a true Neutral in it, and connect to the grounding system here.
ALL neutrals outside this box must be isolated from ground.
All ground rods need to be connected to the EGC conductor, and it needs to be correctly fed to the main panel, and bonding conductors need to go from the main Ground terminals to EVERY METALLIC COMPONENT IN THE SYSTEM.
BE SURE BOTH INVERTERS ARE OFF FIRST.
Run full size grounding conductors to each panel or equipment cabinet and to the container. Not with a tapping screw, with a hole drilled in the container, a bolt run through the container, with any paint removed around the bolt, and a proper lug attached to the bolt, and the grounding conductor fed to the lug.
In the panels, use the grounding terminals, not a screw through the cabinet.
AFTER the grounding system is bulletproof, and all equipment and metal components are bonded to the grounding system, go to the FIRST disconnecting means with a true Neutral in it, and connect to the grounding system here.
ALL neutrals outside this box must be isolated from ground.
Tulex
Solar Wizard
This actually kind of ticks me off. I had just commented a few weeks ago that what is so amazing about this forum is that we DO have many qualified people on here who DO go out of their way to offer help. I can go to any electrical forum and get the standard "hire an electrician, you aren't qualified."
Not only do we have many qualified people on here, we have qualified people with real life experience. Something you won't necessarily find going to your local electrician. And, beyond that, even people who aren't electricians sometimes contribute because they've dealt with identical situations.
So, the OP could have left this sit until his local guy could take a look and hopefully understand the situation, (likely not, as it was partially an inverter situation), and risk possibly worse injury, or hop on here and get instant help that may have prevented that.
Spend some time reading what these guys post. You'll see that this forum doesn't need electrician police.
Last edited:
seneysolar
Solar Enthusiast
Id be curious to know how many electricians or companies would even take the call. Off grid solar, diy installed, shipping container - likely result in several "sorry, too busy" responses or just the phone hung up. This is still a nich market that doesn't have full support everywhere.
Joshua787
New Member
Sorry for the horrible drawing but in the picture attached, I drew in BLUE the actual ground wiring.
@AntronX You said to wire a jumper from ground bar to neutral bar on the right panel (Panel #2) I drew this in YELLOW
this is my next step which I will do tomorrow.
The panel on the Left (Panel #1)has no connection to the ground bar outside. theres one 2 wires on the left panel 's ground bar and these are coming from the output ground on inverter 1 and 2 marked in the picture as GREEN
Should I add a jumper ( Marked as RED )from ground busbar on panel 2 to ground busbar in panel 1 so both panels are grounded to outside ground bar?
Attachments
Joshua787
New Member
Exactly the problem I face here in Puerto Rico. Ive called multiple electricians and as soon as i say offgrid or solar theyre turning their backs on me. This Forum has been the BEST source to fix my problem. This is my very first time posting or reading from a Forum and its been an amazing experience.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2022
- Messages
- 18,697
I will make this as simple as possible.
Each inverter ground connects to left panel ground bar.
Left panel ground bar connects to right panel ground bar.
Ground rod connects to right panel ground bar. (#6 AWG)
Auto-transformer ground connects to right panel ground bar.
Container connects to right panel ground bar. (I would also recommend #6 for this)
Solar panel frames should be bonded together and connected to right panel ground bar.
A green jumper should be connected between the neutral bar and ground bar in right panel.
Same for all of the loads ran from the panel.
If I forgot anything, I'll edit later.
But you should get the picture, that everything conductive that you can touch should be grounded (bonded) together.
Each inverter ground connects to left panel ground bar.
Left panel ground bar connects to right panel ground bar.
Ground rod connects to right panel ground bar. (#6 AWG)
Auto-transformer ground connects to right panel ground bar.
Container connects to right panel ground bar. (I would also recommend #6 for this)
Solar panel frames should be bonded together and connected to right panel ground bar.
A green jumper should be connected between the neutral bar and ground bar in right panel.
Same for all of the loads ran from the panel.
If I forgot anything, I'll edit later.
But you should get the picture, that everything conductive that you can touch should be grounded (bonded) together.
Oh, i completely understand the opinion that an onsite electrician would be the best answer here.
If the OP can post meter readings, and pictures showing the situation, and safely solve the issue, all the better for him, but this is a DIY forum, and zero responsibility is taken on by the members responding here.
We are trying to help, and we are posting the best questions and answers we are able.
I think the left panel should go away.
It may be confusing the issues.
There is no disconnecting means in the right panel.
The neutral should be in the panel with the disconnecting means.
Please, lets not bring lightning potentials into this safety discussion...
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2022
- Messages
- 18,697
It's a weird situation of using a panel as a inverter combiner.
I was never a fan of this. But it's there, so we work with what we have.
There is no neutral in the left panel. So, the N/G will be in the right panel.
And subsequently all other electrode connections.
I get it...
I just dont like it.
The autotransformer could be run to the left panel, and thw right one can go away...
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 20,761
The autotransformer can't handle the power of two inverters. Without protection, it could fail.
With incorrectly implemented protection, you lose neutral.
Either need a breaker which disconnects it together with 240V loads (Victron does that, with 32A or 100A breaker),
or have a 240V (only) loads panel tied directly to inverters, plus a panel with fed by small breaker for autotransformer and 120V loads.
With incorrectly implemented protection, you lose neutral.
Either need a breaker which disconnects it together with 240V loads (Victron does that, with 32A or 100A breaker),
or have a 240V (only) loads panel tied directly to inverters, plus a panel with fed by small breaker for autotransformer and 120V loads.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2022
- Messages
- 18,697
I agree completely.
I'm just going on what is there. Without forcing too many changes.
Since the split-phase service technically begins in the transformer. The first means of disconnect is the individual load breakers.
Similar to a residential main lug service panel.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2022
- Messages
- 18,697
The simple solution is to reduce the breaker feeding the transformer to 25a.
And feed any 240v loads from the left panel.
This protects the transformer and allows full output of the two inverters.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 20,761
If this one:
"... and the power difference between the two split phases can not exceed 3kW"
That means 25A @ 120V.
I think you'd better make the breaker 12.5A, 2 pole, not 25A, 2 pole.
(There are improved schemes which measure current through auto-transformer and use that to disconnect power to the loads panel. That serves to enforce difference between the two phases, rather than current feeding the phases.)
"... and the power difference between the two split phases can not exceed 3kW"
That means 25A @ 120V.
I think you'd better make the breaker 12.5A, 2 pole, not 25A, 2 pole.
(There are improved schemes which measure current through auto-transformer and use that to disconnect power to the loads panel. That serves to enforce difference between the two phases, rather than current feeding the phases.)
Mike 134
Solar Enthusiast
138 responses later think you helped him or have him so confused he has no idea what to do? Like someone above posted really don't care if he lets the smoke out of the box, but he does have a small child to think of.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2022
- Messages
- 18,697
You can't get 25a out of the neutral without at least 25a on one of the legs.
So, a 25a 2 pole breaker is what is needed.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2022
- Messages
- 18,697
Actually, I believe that they are following instruction pretty well.
We can save the girl and equipment.
