Sorry about that. Hopefully it doesn't make a huge difference in your bill.
It's Working!!! Sol-Ark 15K, 33.52kW with 67 Panels AC+DC PV, 25kW SOK Batteries - Photo Diary
- Thread starter Ryushin
- Start date
Ryushin
Solar Enthusiast
Well, I still added $75 to my credit. It would have been $53 more if they had not reduced it.
53 is significant but I'm glad the bill is still negative
You're doing better than what Xcel pays (not that I don't agree with your "Grrrrrrr!"). Here are Xcel's historic AHIC rates:
Historic AHIC amounts:
2023: 1.529¢ 2022: 2.672¢ 2021: 1.786¢ 2020: 1.115¢ 2019: 1.205¢ 2018: 1.503¢
But Xcel is still better than some local Co-ops and such. Grand Valley Power (and other Co-ops), for example, limits solar to maximum 10kW DC rated and they can choose whether they will allow bigger systems (GVP does not). They must pay out for excess generation but can choose a "rate deemed appropriate." Xcel uses the 200% rule for maximum DC rated size. Finally, GVP has $31.50 monthly base charge, whereas Xcel is $9.39.
So in the end, like you, the payout amount is peanuts but overall it's better than if I were with GVP. At least I was able to put up a 31kW system and will get some dollars back. And the base rate is 70% less.
Brett V
Mad Scientist
I’m glad Pennsylvania still has true net metering!
Ryushin
Solar Enthusiast
Xcel is worse for sure. CORE (utility) also has the 10kW max 200% of your current usage rule for net metering. I went with Qualifying Facility so I could go with 33.52kW. I've also seen the writing is on the wall with net metering and that it will be going away in the future.
I really don't want to be buying any power from my utility. I have to sell 3 to 1 to break even, not to mention selling enough to off set their monthly charges. I talked with my wife today and she is on board with buying another five SOK batteries in a month or two. The extra 25kW should make it that I'm not having to buy from my utility each day unless the weather is really bad. Even then, I have the option of running the generator.
I've attached a copy of the bill for giggles.
Attachments
Ryushin
Solar Enthusiast
Don't see it lasting though. At least you have that for now. What was the size limit of a system you could have?
Brett V
Mad Scientist
Net metering in Pennsylvania
| System capacity limit | 50 kW for Residential 3 MW for Non-residential 5 MW for micro-grid and emergency systems |
| Monthly excess generation credit rate | Full retail |
| Annual excess generation credit rate | Price-to-compare rate (generation and transmission, reconciled yearly) |
I agree it's not fiscally sustainable for the power suppliers but a recent PA Supreme Court ruling solidified it for the foreseeable future.
My total electricity costs for the past year is $241.11. I received $180 in SREC credits for the same period, so basically $61.11 for 12 months.
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Ryushin
Solar Enthusiast
Up to 50kW for residential, and full net metering. Talk about your fast ROI!
Ryushin
Solar Enthusiast
So my battery storage won't last the night without buying from the grid a little bit. I have enough solar capacity to charge the batteries up if the panels are not covered in snow, and even if it is a fully cloudy day (not rain clouds), I should still make enough to charge the batteries back up. So adding the extra battery capacity would let me turn of grid shaving, or change it to much higher amount, such as 5kW from the 1-2kW that I have it set for now, that I would rarely buy anything from the utility.
25kW would be fine for most residential, but my servers consume about 850-950W 24x7. So I have to off set that. With winter daylight being so short, the battery storage has to run a lot longer. So yea, adding an additional 25kWh more of battery storage to get me to 50kWh should make it rare that I have to buy power from the grid.
Brucey
Solar Wizard
Nice, 50 kW limit!
They are trying to do something in NY where instead of net metering you get a worse deal and the website even admits that, right now it's still optional. 25kW limit.
Can you reduce your consumption any more? I saw you installed a heat pump water heater; I did the same and it's amazing how much more efficient it is. The other big thing we did, is install mini splits in both house and shop/office. We do not have natural gas. The mini splits are way more efficient than electric heat and AC. We also have an induction range now, which helps some. The single biggest load we have now days, is the EV, which is also way cheaper than getting gas or diesel.
Also, it just occurred to me looking at your bill... your net metering with Core, is where you get a dollar value ($.037/kWh), which is then used toward future bills. Is that right? So, in the winter, you don't have enough banked money to cover all your usage?
Xcel does seem worse, but my net metering is where I bank the actual kWh (not a $$ value), which then get applied toward any kWh I use from them. At end of year, they will pay out the AHIC rate for whatever kWh are left in my bank.
Ryushin
Solar Enthusiast
My wife and I are always home. We have several computers and I have servers downstairs along with a camera security system with constantly moving PTZ cameras. Our house load, without any HVAC running is around 1300-1400 watts. So that by itself is about 22kW during the long winter nights.
But yea, in times of emergency, I'd shut down the servers at night and bring everything back online in the morning. I can always run the generator though if we still have NG.
The heat pump water heater is using about 4.5kW a day and it's very nice to have. Very impressed with it and it's not loud at all. Next year I'm planning on replacing my AC with a heat pump:
ACiQ 4 Ton 16 SEER High Efficiency Central Heat Pump | Inverter | Extreme Heat
The ACiQ Next Gen model ACiQ-48-HPB is a unitary central split heat pump system for standard ductwork applications. The inverter design means this system can vary the refrigerant flow through the condenser coil based on conditions, making this unit fundamentally different from traditional heat...
hvacdirect.com
I did the heat pump water heater for the 30% this year, so I'm done for this year. Total cost for the heat pump water heater and the electrical panel and such was $5267. My wife was none too happy about that and said I should have just put in a NG water heater. But she understand the need of it. She just does not like letting those green critters escape.
Yea, I bank the money with CORE. I can request CORE to cut me a check any time I want them to. We'll keep banking each year and probably have them cut us a check each April. We should generate enough extra to cover the winter months. Though adding the batteries will mean less buying power from them as long as the panels are not covered with snow, I should be able to charge the batteries to a 100% by the evening. I worked out the cost to run the generator for 10 hours will cost about the same in electricty for the day from CORE. So run the generator for 10 hours will charge the batteries to a 100% while covering the house loads during that time.
We are a bit of a preppers. The solar was a big part of that. Adding the generator was another piece. Adding heat pumps is another. We'll still keep NG for the gas range cooktop as we prefer cooking on the stove with gas. The ovens are electric.
The only piece of the puzzle that I have not worked out yet, is water. Still strongly thinking of digging an illegal well for emergencies. Thought about putting in a 5-10 thousand gallon cistern and filiing it from our municiple water supply, so that would be legal.
Also still have to take care of adding surge protectors and such to the panel strings, inverters, house main panel, etc. For when that pesky CME comes. Not sure what to do about EMP though.
For reference in your planning, we have the cold climate splits, rated down to -22F. They had no problem heating down to 0 (or lower maybe, though I do not recall getting below zero). About the only thing you notice is that they do the defrost cycle more often when it's really cold. In the past two years, we have never had to use any kind of supplemental heat. In case though, I still have a few strategically placed baseboard heaters and a couple space heaters for backup/emergency. It wouldn't really bother me to use those (if necessary), since we make our electricity. Also, we use a pellet stove, though that is more for the enjoyment of a fire to sit by.
Energy Star Mini Split Air Conditioners
Upgrade to unparalleled energy efficiency with our selection of Ultra-High Efficiency mini split air conditioners and ductless heat pumps. Stay comfortable while saving money and reducing your carbon footprint.
senville.com
On the HPWH, I got lucky. Bought it in 2020; was on sale for $649! Got a $500 Xcel rebate, so in the end, it cost around $100. I paid a plumber $600 to help relocate to the other side of the house and I did the electrical. I would pick HPWH over NG any day.
Rheem Performance Platinum 40 Gal. 10-Year Hybrid High Efficiency Smart Tank Electric Heat Pump Water Heater XE40T10H45U0 - The Home Depot
The Rheem ProTerra Electric Hybrid Electric Heat Pump Water Heater. Heat pump technology makes it 4X THE EFFICIENCY of a conventional electric model (of the same or similar capacity). It's so efficient
www.homedepot.com
Makes sense why you want more batteries, now that I see how Core does it. For us, Xcel is basically like another battery; it doesn't really matter if we use from our battery or Xcel, since it all comes from PV. Later this year, they are supposedly adding time of use around here, so that will change things a little bit. With TOU, only peak PV credits can be used during peak, mid/mid, etc. But credits can be used downhill, so peak can be used in mid, mid in off peak. We'll still be banking actual kWh, but we might start using the battery during peak hours when TOU is here.
I agree. This will be a fun project to work out.
There is a bit of logic in prepping. Why wouldn't you want to achieve independence, if it can be done in a reasonable manner? We have one each, diesel truck and tractor, one EV and a PTO generator. Gives a wide range of options for emergency scenarios, while also being a wide range of options for normal use. Prepping doesn't only have to be for SHTF, it can be great for everyday life.
Ryushin
Solar Enthusiast
Yea, the heat pumps have gotten better at colder temperatures. I was just putting 10F as the cutoff in my case because of efficiency. But yea, if the NG was not flowing, the heat pump will be run as long as there was power to supply it. And even on days where it would be be colder than 10F, if it was sunny, and the batteries are charged, I'd probably run the heat pump.
That is a great deal. Mine was a lot more money too because I went with a 80 gallon. CORE doesn't have any kind of rebates. My wife was just looking at the total cost. She is a saver and not a spender, so that works out good in many ways. We are very careful with our money.
Yea, CORE has time of use from 4-8 PM and we run 100% solar/battery during that time.
For sure. It's fun knowing that you can be completely independent and self sufficient. My fear is that if we have a significant event, my neighbors will want what to take what we have. I'll share within reason, but our prepping is to provide for my family. Ant and the Grasshopper kind of thing.
ArthurEld
Solar Wizard
When our house got flooded from Sandy, our neighborhood was without power for weeks. Many of our neighbors were unprepared.
All we had was a crappy generator but it was enough to keep the refrigerator and a heating blanket going. I let one neighbor use a line to the generator so they could keep their refrigerator going. I don't know if I will ever be without power that long again but I am much better prepared now.
Ryushin
Solar Enthusiast
Did you have natural gas for your generator or were you were running on other fuels? And if other fuels, how hard was it to keep your generator fed. How did it go for your other essentials such as water and food?
Being residential, I have an unlimited supply of NG as long as it keeps flowing and the generator does not destroy itself. I have enough solar and battery right now that as long as I get some light each day (and the panels are not covered in snow), I can have electricity and I have the generator for backup. But I do need more battery though, I know that.
Also thinking about picking up a StarLink just to have. I know during power outages my Internet goes down.
I'm actually thinking a large attack on our infrastructure could be coming and we could be without power for days, weeks, or even months. So I'm at least very pleased where I am know, just need to keep preparing.
kolek
Inventor of the Electron
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2021
- Messages
- 564
I guess I'm from a different era, but to me it's sad to see grown men seeking permission and approval from their wives, and then getting beaten up about a solar project they worked really hard on for whatever reason. This reminds me a little of the thread with the guy wringing his hands because his solar project uses some extension cords and his wife doesn't like them. Is this universal nowadays? Maybe I'm just out of the loop.
Does it work both ways? What if the wife wants to go to Paris for her holiday, or she wants spend more than you spent on the solar system to buy a pink Lexus. Does she ask you for permission? Is she telling her friends "My husband gave me the go ahead to buy a pink Lexus. I got all the extras, it's loaded. Ended up costing 40% over budget and he's unhappy about it, but I think he'll be more approving after he's had a ride in it."
And it's sad that you did such a beautiful job on that solar install, and your wife can't just sit back and give thanks and appreciate what a wonderful job you did. How about "Wow, how lucky I am to have a genius for a husband who can build a system like that!"
Don't get me wrong. I've never met your wife and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm sure your wife is great. But me personally, I guess I come from a different generation. Of course I discuss things with my partner, and I take her input and ideas, especially if it's a big project or something expensive, but I don't ask for permission. And my partner is super appreciative and excited about having a lower electric bill. Anyway, congratulations on a really beautiful job!
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ArthurEld
Solar Wizard
Since all of the houses were flooded, they shut off all electricity and natural gas until each house was inspected. That took weeks and it was cold outside.
