It's Working!!! Sol-Ark 15K, 33.52kW with 67 Panels AC+DC PV, 25kW SOK Batteries - Photo Diary

[Ryushin]

I have this exact disconnect and have an anecdotal story about it... Electrician was landing some circuits in the main panel (also the same exact panel as you). He was working live and with a slip of a ground wire, POW! It touched a bolt of the bus bar. After a bit of troubleshooting, we found it blew one of the 200A() fuses in the disconnect. One heck of a short circuit. Of course, this was Friday at 3:15pm, before a long holiday weekend. No area supply houses had that fuse in stock. Closest I could get was 150A, which at least got us running again. Note, we were able to run off-grid from the 15k, just couldn't use the grid, due to one leg gone.

^ Moral for me - Order one or two of those big fuses for backup. This stuff shouldn't happen, but when it does, it could be at the worst time.

Also Ryushin, I have been researching (and have posted a couple other places) for how to solve my needs. I have 22 more panels I'd like to AC couple to the 15k. Another inverter would be great for several reasons, including having a "backup" to the 15k. I couldn't find suitable inverters until I came across this thread. Thanks very much!

Here is what I am deciding between:

- Growatt MIN11400TL-XH-US: About $1000 after tax credit.

- Solis S6-EH1P11.4K-H-US-RSS: About $1400 after tax credit.

- Sol-Ark 15k: About $4150 after tax credit.

Main thing I don't like about the Growatt and Solis is that they are HV battery, with Growatt only theirs. Solis can do others. I have 48v Homegrid batteries now, so those two inverters could not charge my batteries. Of course, the 15k checks all boxes, but is $3k more.

As you did, I will run this by the home boss. Perhaps she'll just say "what the heck, just get the 15k."

Well, nice to know those fuses work! I have two spares fuses I keep in the wire trough under the fused disconnect.

Thing is, after I had bought everything, and installed it, then having the couple of issues with the two Growatt MIN (which got fixed), the CFO/wife who does not like to spend money and was very upset with how much I went over budget, came out of the blue and said I should have gotten a second Sol-Ark 15K. If she sees the wisdom of that, you're wife may too. Having the second Sol-Ark will not only give you redundancy, it will allow you to run twice the load in the house. You'll probably need another distribution block too which is listed on the first post.

Yea, if the CFO would have green lighted the second Sol-Ark it would have made things easier. Other thing is, I have 7 strings that would have to fit into that Sol-Ark and I could not make that work with my current layout. I'd probably have to loose a panel and figure out a different layout to make it balance in the 3 MPPTs. There is 17.6kW of PV going into those two Growatts.

 

[Jbird905]

Well, nice to know those fuses work! I have two spares fuses I keep in the wire trough under the fused disconnect.

Thing is, after I had bought everything, and installed it, then having the couple of issues with the two Growatt MIN (which got fixed), the CFO/wife who does not like to spend money and was very upset with how much I went over budget, came out of the blue and said I should have gotten a second Sol-Ark 15K. If she sees the wisdom of that, you're wife may too. Having the second Sol-Ark will not only give you redundancy, it will allow you to run twice the load in the house. You'll probably need another distribution block too which is listed on the first post.

Yea, if the CFO would have green lighted the second Sol-Ark it would have made things easier. Other thing is, I have 7 strings that would have to fit into that Sol-Ark and I could not make that work with my current layout. I'd probably have to loose a panel and figure out a different layout to make it balance in the 3 MPPTs. There is 17.6kW of PV going into those two Growatts.

Ha! That's hilarious. Perhaps I'll show this to our boss, so she'll just agree with your CFO. Right now, we're talking about 22 REC N-Peak 3 400, for about 8.8kW. Pocket change for the 15k.

Yeah, I have a couple fuses coming, plus the 150A that can also serve in a pinch, as it is now. My disconnect is outside (rest of everything is inside); I wonder if I can store the extra fuses in the disconnect?

BTW, I just noticed your location. We are over in Palisade (Grand Junction).

 

[Ryushin]

Ha! That's hilarious. Perhaps I'll show this to our boss, so she'll just agree with your CFO. Right now, we're talking about 22 REC N-Peak 3 400, for about 8.8kW. Pocket change for the 15k.

Yeah, I have a couple fuses coming, plus the 150A that can also serve in a pinch, as it is now. My disconnect is outside (rest of everything is inside); I wonder if I can store the extra fuses in the disconnect?

BTW, I just noticed your location. We are over in Palisade (Grand Junction).

Yea, I like Grand Junction. I would like it better if it was part of Utah.

You may want to contact Bluesun and see what a pallets of panels cost. They have 460W (36 panels) and 550W (31 panels) bi-facials which I used. I think it was around $7K delivered for each pallet. Probably cheaper now. Message me if you want their contact info.

 

[1201]

I have this exact disconnect and have an anecdotal story about it... Electrician was landing some circuits in the main panel (also the same exact panel as you). He was working live and with a slip of a ground wire, POW! It touched a bolt of the bus bar. After a bit of troubleshooting, we found it blew one of the 200A() fuses in the disconnect. One heck of a short circuit. Of course, this was Friday at 3:15pm, before a long holiday weekend. No area supply houses had that fuse in stock. Closest I could get was 150A, which at least got us running again. Note, we were able to run off-grid from the 15k, just couldn't use the grid, due to one leg gone.

^ Moral for me - Order one or two of those big fuses for backup. This stuff shouldn't happen, but when it does, it could be at the worst time.

Also Ryushin, I have been researching (and have posted a couple other places) for how to solve my needs. I have 22 more panels I'd like to AC couple to the 15k. Another inverter would be great for several reasons, including having a "backup" to the 15k. I couldn't find suitable inverters until I came across this thread. Thanks very much!

Here is what I am deciding between:

- Growatt MIN11400TL-XH-US: About $1000 after tax credit.

- Solis S6-EH1P11.4K-H-US-RSS: About $1400 after tax credit.

- Sol-Ark 15k: About $4150 after tax credit.

Main thing I don't like about the Growatt and Solis is that they are HV battery, with Growatt only theirs. Solis can do others. I have 48v Homegrid batteries now, so those two inverters could not charge my batteries. Of course, the 15k checks all boxes, but is $3k more.

As you did, I will run this by the home boss. Perhaps she'll just say "what the heck, just get the 15k."

I think you should just get the solark since you already have one.

I'm eyeing this for my next inverter

SPH 10000TL-HU-US | Residential Storage Inverter | Growatt

SPH 10000TL-HU-US | Residential Storage Inverter | Growatt

us.growatt.com

 

[SenileOldGit]

PVWatts say I should be able to make over 80kWh during December. We'll see.

Is that per day, or for the entire month?

 

[Ryushin]

Is that per day, or for the entire month?

That was per day. I took the total for the month and divided it by 31. Here is the PVWatts monthly data combined for all the 13 strings:

Total of All Solar Arrays​
Month​	Daily Average POA Irradiance (kWh/m2/day)​	DC Array Output (kWh)​	AC System Output (kWh)​
1​	4.74​	2,832,004.05​	2,691,557.95​
2​	4.78​	3,280,213.79​	3,122,815.32​
3​	4.82​	4,597,114.71​	4,375,470.56​
4​	4.86​	5,141,206.60​	4,884,809.22​
5​	4.89​	5,711,248.80​	5,437,625.84​
6​	4.91​	5,723,732.92​	5,464,748.00​
7​	4.91​	5,652,194.03​	5,394,284.71​
8​	4.91​	5,196,618.82​	4,957,439.20​
9​	4.90​	4,628,841.90​	4,417,104.98​
10​	4.90​	3,769,734.09​	3,591,560.65​
11​	4.90​	3,013,989.97​	2,868,663.32​
12​	4.91​	2,483,857.28​	2,354,841.54​
Annual Total​	4.87​	52,030,756.96​	49,560,921.29​

 

[Ryushin]

Well, it's been cold here in Denver area. Getting down to -14F tonight and it was -10F last night. I've been insulating the garage (only half done, but it helps) but it's not enough as it is now below freezing in there.

Four days ago knowing it was going to get below 0F and worrying about the five SOK batteries getting below freezing, I ran a 1500W electric heater in the garage for a few hours but it wasn't enough to see any meaningful temperature increase. The next morning I put an electric throw blanket on the batteries set on high (100 watts) along with putting a moving blanket on top of that. That helped. The top battery was 50F but the bottom battery was still quite cold at 36F and the garage was 30F.

But if a 100W could keep the batteries warm enough, then that is what I needed. Starting looking on Amazon and at first I was looking for electric blankets but then I looked up heating pad and found out about heated seed mats. So I ordered six (meant to order 5) heated seed mats, a temperature controller, and a six port power strip:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08NB4PX9Y

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I15S6OM

Seed mats arrived the same day from Amazon, almost at 9 at night. Since it was late, I just opened them, unrolled them (they are bowed being made from PVC) and slid them between the batteries and plugged them in without hooking anything else up. Solar Assistant showed the temperature climbing on all the batteries, so I thought it was acceptable for the night and the next day I'll make it nicer.

Early yesterday morning the garage was 26F and the bottom battery was 40F, while the top battery was 60F. Big temperature difference, but not unexpected since the top battery has the blanket on it. I decided to slide that sixth seed mat on top of the the bottom battery giving it 40W of heat and that did it. It brought those two bottom batteries closer inline with the middle battery.

Later yesterday I hooked up the thermostat controller and duct taped the temperature probe to the bottom battery and set the thermostat to turn on the power to the mats at 50F (turns on three degrees cooler then what you set it and then heats to it's programmed temperature). I looked around the house to see what I could use to fill the gap between the batteries so the seed mats would have better contact with the batteries and I ended up using some bubble wrap that I had thinking that it might be a good insulator too. I put the moving blanket back on the batteries for good measure and low and behold. Batteries are safe and warm and the temperature controller seems to be doing a good job with it.

I'll take it. I'll end up finish insulating the garage and hopefully add a 2 Ton mini-split in there to heat and cool the garage.

I've attached battery temp graphs. Not sure why Solar Assistant is seeing those spikes. I get that on a few of Solar Assistant's graphs.
On a different note, I've attached the production for December and the first half of January as well (some days the panels were covered in snow).

 

[1201]

@Ryushin that's great. I don't know how but could you post those mats in the resource area?

 

[Ryushin]

@Ryushin that's great. I don't know how but could you post those mats in the resource area?

Sure, I'll ad it to the first post.

 

[Ryushin]

On Saturday I picked up a Firman Tri-Fuel generator from Costco and ordered the EG4 Chargeverter from Current Connected, which is back ordered for the time being. @HighTechLab any idea how long these are back ordered for?
Firman Tri-Fuel Generator: https://www.costco.com/firman-7500w-running--9400w-peak-tri-fuel-generator.product.100840185.html
EG4 Chargeverter: https://www.currentconnected.com/product/eg4-chargeverter-48v-100a-battery-charger-240-120v-input/

My plan is to run the generator on natural gas so this week I'll create my plans and submit them to my AHJ. The generator (5500 running watts on NG) seems sized perfectly to run the Chargeverter at 100% to charge the batteries. Once the AHJ approves my plans I'll go visit Home Depot again.

I'll be contacting Firman today to have them send me the high altitude jet for the Generator. They have a 3000-6000 jet and 6000-8000 jet. I'm at 6600ft in altitude. Most of Denver is 5000-5550 feet. I'm leaning torwards the lower altitude 3000-6000 jet in case I take the generator to another location in the Denver area. Mountains though go a lot higher. When I talk with Firman I'll see what they recommend.

My wife is open to the idea of buying more batteries around the June time frame. Planning on adding another five SOK batteries and placing all 10 in 55U 20" deep open frame four post rack: https://www.racksolutions.com/server-racks/server-racks-cabinets-enclosures.html#description
Using these rails: https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-4POSTRAIL-4-Post-Universal-Mount/dp/B00TCELZTK/?th=1
If I can get the batteries to stack perfectly on top of each other, I should be able to fit another 3 batteries in that rack for a total of 65kWh.

It would be nice if the SOK batteries came with the standard mounting holes on the side so I could attach sliding rails to them which would make racking them so much easier. @HighTechLab, hint, hint.

 

[HighTechLab]

EG4 Chargeverter from Current Connected, which is back ordered for the time being. @HighTechLab any idea how long these are back ordered for?

Well, we were told on Friday that they are still anticipated to ship this month...but here we are on the 29th...

We closed backorder/preorders today. My team is working on calling everyone that has a pre-order and let them know of the situation and that we still don't know when we are going to actually have them - we are offering either a full refund to cancel the order (with the option to be put on a notification list when they do arrive), or provide a $25 refund if you wish to keep the pre-order in as an apology for the continued delays. We will resume taking orders only once the inventory has arrived to our facility.

It would be nice if the SOK batteries came with the standard mounting holes on the side so I could attach sliding rails to them which would make racking them so much easier. @HighTechLab, hint, hint.

The battery is about 1/4" too wide for the extra-heavy-duty rack slides to fit between the battery and the rack. Unfortunately, we don't have 1/4" inside the battery to give to make it skinnier without a full redesign that would require updating our UL listings (note, lots of money).

 

[Ryushin]

Well, we were told on Friday that they are still anticipated to ship this month...but here we are on the 29th...

We closed backorder/preorders today. My team is working on calling everyone that has a pre-order and let them know of the situation and that we still don't know when we are going to actually have them - we are offering either a full refund to cancel the order (with the option to be put on a notification list when they do arrive), or provide a $25 refund if you wish to keep the pre-order in as an apology for the continued delays. We will resume taking orders only once the inventory has arrived to our facility.


The battery is about 1/4" too wide for the extra-heavy-duty rack slides to fit between the battery and the rack. Unfortunately, we don't have 1/4" inside the battery to give to make it skinnier without a full redesign that would require updating our UL listings (note, lots of money).

Thanks. I'll keep my pre-order open and it gets here when it gets here kind of thing. I still have to get the permit for the natural gas line and hook it up.

I was not aware of how the close space was available. Well, since that option is not available because of the space that is inside, how about offering or link to a shelf type rail that does allow stacking them right on top of each other in a 4 post rack/cabinet. I'm hoping that one I listed from Amazon is thin enough to have them pretty much stack right on top of each other. It would be awesome to get 13 of them stacked vertically. That Rack Solutions even makes a 58U rack, to stack 14 tall! When I'm about ready to order the batteries, I'm going to order the cabinet first and five of those shelf rails to see if I can get them to fit correctly.

Will SOK in the future have some kind of hub to connect more than 15 batteries together for closed loop? I still want to hit that 100kWh goal.

 

[1201]

On Saturday I picked up a Firman Tri-Fuel generator from Costco and ordered the EG4 Chargeverter from Current Connected, which is back ordered for the time being. @HighTechLab any idea how long these are back ordered for?
Firman Tri-Fuel Generator: https://www.costco.com/firman-7500w-running--9400w-peak-tri-fuel-generator.product.100840185.html
EG4 Chargeverter: https://www.currentconnected.com/product/eg4-chargeverter-48v-100a-battery-charger-240-120v-input/

My plan is to run the generator on natural gas so this week I'll create my plans and submit them to my AHJ. The generator (5500 running watts on NG) seems sized perfectly to run the Chargeverter at 100% to charge the batteries. Once the AHJ approves my plans I'll go visit Home Depot again.

I'll be contacting Firman today to have them send me the high altitude jet for the Generator. They have a 3000-6000 jet and 6000-8000 jet. I'm at 6600ft in altitude. Most of Denver is 5000-5550 feet. I'm leaning torwards the lower altitude 3000-6000 jet in case I take the generator to another location in the Denver area. Mountains though go a lot higher. When I talk with Firman I'll see what they recommend.

My wife is open to the idea of buying more batteries around the June time frame. Planning on adding another five SOK batteries and placing all 10 in 55U 20" deep open frame four post rack: https://www.racksolutions.com/server-racks/server-racks-cabinets-enclosures.html#description
Using these rails: https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-4POSTRAIL-4-Post-Universal-Mount/dp/B00TCELZTK/?th=1
If I can get the batteries to stack perfectly on top of each other, I should be able to fit another 3 batteries in that rack for a total of 65kWh.

It would be nice if the SOK batteries came with the standard mounting holes on the side so I could attach sliding rails to them which would make racking them so much easier. @HighTechLab, hint, hint.

I'm asking a noob question here- can't you just connect the generator directly to the inverter?

 

[Lt.Dan]

I'm asking a noob question here- can't you just connect the generator directly to the inverter?

Generators typically have a very poor waveform or a frequency that is not stable. Inverters will typically shutdown or not allow charging when one is connected. Hence why the Chargeverter was created.

 

[Ryushin]

Generators typically have a very poor waveform or a frequency that is not stable. Inverters will typically shutdown or not allow charging when one is connected. Hence why the Chargeverter was created.

I'm asking a noob question here- can't you just connect the generator directly to the inverter?

What Lt.Dan said. In addition I'm using the Gen/AC Coupled input on the Sol-Ark for the AC Coupled from the Growatt Inverters.

Yea, that little EG4 Chargeverter will do a good job. I will only need it for emergencies when I loose grid and the batteries get too low. It's almost a required part if you have batteries and a generator.

 

[Ryushin]

Added the fuse items to the first post as it occurred to me I spent a lot of time researching that too:

• Blue Sea 5502 Fuse Block Class T 225-400 Amp: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011KL5HFA/
• South Bend Components 350A Class T Fast Blow Fuse (2-Pack): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BFRSCVS9
• Bussmann NON-200 One-Time 200-Amp Low-Voltage 250V, K5 Cartridge Fuse: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LES9MQ

 

[1201]

How's the system working. Have you received your first subzero bill yet?

 

[Ryushin]

How's the system working. Have you received your first subzero bill yet?

Yesterday I made my first 10 MegaWatts, yay! My utility adds a few extra charges such a delivery fee, time of use, taxes, etc. Those come out to be about $40 a month. My utility bills have before the solar was installed were normally been between $225-$400. The bills have been as follows since then (date is when the bill was delivered):
December 7th: $69.57
January 8th: $58.72
February 7th: $33.00
March: Have not gotten it yet and there is probably 2-3 more days left before it's finalized, but I ran the numbers today, and if they billed me today it would be my first negative month with -$20.71

On average during December, I used about 10-15kWh from the grid per day. The nights are so long the batteries get down to the 20% floor I have them set for. Still hoping to add another five SOK batteries around June and that should get me through the nights as I was still seeing 80-90kWh a day during December.... if the panels were not covered in snow. I've attached the Last 12 Months report from Solar Assistant.

The EG4 Chargeverter came from Current Connected (thanks @HighTechLab ) and the natural gas hose came a couple of days ago. Waiting on the 30Amp cable I ordered from Home Depot still. Going to run 30A Romex from the garage to the back of my house and put in the 30A recepticles and tap into the natural gas BBQ line back there and run the Firman generator under my deck. Need to finish the insulation in the garage before doing that. Probably get it all done this month.

But overall, I'm blown away with the power this system is producing. Today was a 157.4kWh day. Can't imagine what it will be like during the summer solstice. Just need to get those five batteries and I shouldn't be buying from the grid any longer, baring snow or stupidly dark cloudy days. The system even pulls in good numbers during the winter cloudy days.

PV Pro says I've earned back $1,315 so far, as of today. I can see the system making $5-6K a year at this point. So hopefully my breakeven will be within seven years.

Just did my taxes today, so much fun that was, let me break out the paper cuts and lemon juice to celebrate. Still going to have some of the tax credit to apply next year. Uggg.... the government wants so much money.

 

[1201]

12 we

Yesterday I made my first 10 MegaWatts, yay! My utility adds a few extra charges such a delivery fee, time of use, taxes, etc. Those come out to be about $40 a month. My utility bills have before the solar was installed were normally been between $225-$400. The bills have been as follows since then (date is when the bill was delivered):
December 7th: $69.57
January 8th: $58.72
February 7th: $33.00
March: Have not gotten it yet and there is probably 2-3 more days left before it's finalized, but I ran the numbers today, and if they billed me today it would be my first negative month with -$20.71

On average during December, I used about 10-15kWh from the grid per day. The nights are so long the batteries get down to the 20% floor I have them set for. Still hoping to add another five SOK batteries around June and that should get me through the nights as I was still seeing 80-90kWh a day during December.... if the panels were not covered in snow. I've attached the Last 12 Months report from Solar Assistant.

The EG4 Chargeverter came from Current Connected (thanks @HighTechLab ) and the natural gas hose came a couple of days ago. Waiting on the 30Amp cable I ordered from Home Depot still. Going to run 30A Romex from the garage to the back of my house and put in the 30A recepticles and tap into the natural gas BBQ line back there and run the Firman generator under my deck. Need to finish the insulation in the garage before doing that. Probably get it all done this month.

But overall, I'm blown away with the power this system is producing. Today was a 157.4kWh day. Can't imagine what it will be like during the summer solstice. Just need to get those five batteries and I shouldn't be buying from the grid any longer, baring snow or stupidly dark cloudy days. The system even pulls in good numbers during the winter cloudy days.

PV Pro says I've earned back $1,315 so far, as of today. I can see the system making $5-6K a year at this point. So hopefully my breakeven will be within seven years.

Just did my taxes today, so much fun that was, let me break out the paper cuts and lemon juice to celebrate. Still going to have some of the tax credit to apply next year. Uggg.... the government wants so much money.

Congrats on your upcoming first negative bill month!

7 years for such a system is a phenomenal payback time.

As a self proclaimed diy battery evangelist, would you consider a diy battery? For about the same money you can get double the capacity, or spend half for the same capacity.

Nice work. I'm at 3044kwh since turning my system on December 17th

 

[Ryushin]

Congrats on your upcoming first negative bill month!

7 years for such a system is a phenomenal payback time.

As a self proclaimed diy battery evangelist, would you consider a diy battery? For about the same money you can get double the capacity, or spend half for the same capacity.

Nice work. I'm at 3044kwh since turning my system on December 17th

I'm actually surprised how much the system is producing. I was expecting a 9 year break even point when I built it, but based on what I've seen right now, I'm thinking 7 years (if I don't buy more battery) is the break even. Though I could be overly optimistic with how much it will produce during the sunnier months. I guess I'll see where I'm at next November 8th.

As for DIY your own batteries.... that would be a yes.... or at least it was going to be. I DIY everything else, but I need UL approved batteries to pass my inspections originally and the SOK batteries are also officially support by Sol-Ark.

In December and January I was in the process of looking into making my own batteries. Read about the new JK BMS and thought this could be it, then I read about all the problems it was having with it's "alpha" level firmware. Someone posted the SOK batteries use the PACE BMS, so started digging into that. Then by chance I found out about this beast:

48v 1000ah Home Battery Home Solar lithium 50KWH battery Pack

rack mount LiFePo4 lithium battery pack with 48v 1000ah for home solar energy storage system. 50kwh lithium battery storage system ligh weight 50 kwh bank

www.coremax-tech.com

Emailed them and it worked out to be about $8000 to my door.

Anyway, after getting all excited about that Coremax or getting a PACE BMS to make my own batteries, and talking with my wife, I'm going to stay with the SOK batteries. They are user serviceable, supported by Sol-Ark, and are UL listed. So I won't have problems with my AHJ, house insurance, or if I sold the house.

If I ever move and get a good patch of land, which I'm hoping to one day, I'll be making my own batteries with dual Sol-Arks and hell, up to it to 60kW of PV!!!