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Inverter With SUB function

timselectric said:
I have personally measured 1.6a on mine.
I just consider it the cost of having the feature.
I don't use SUB mode, except for special circumstances. (Mostly just testing situations)
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while you don't use it, you can buy much cheaper inverters without this feature. SPF 5000 ES is famous because of the hybrid feature for blending utility and solar energy. disappointing growatt
 
timselectric said:
don't use SUB mode, except for special
Click to expand...
Well December 2021 was the first time I had any grid backup. Last spring I was ‘back’ for the summer the first of April. It’s only been a couple days now since I turned the AC off. 46kWh grid used since February 5th. I have been running sbu but with the switch thrown it’s SB like it should be
 
12VoltInstalls said:
Well December 2021 was the first time I had any grid backup. Last spring I was ‘back’ for the summer the first of April. It’s only been a couple days now since I turned the AC off. 46kWh grid used since February 5th. I have been running sbu but with the switch thrown it’s SB like it should be
Click to expand...
SBU is the mode I run in. But, if there's a big storm system coming. I'll switch to SUB, to save the batteries for the possible outage coming. As soon as the storm clears, I switch back to SBU.

abhelou said:
while you don't use it, you can buy much cheaper inverters without this feature. SPF 5000 ES is famous because of the hybrid feature for blending utility and solar energy.
Click to expand...
Part of the reason I chose this inverter was for this feature. Whether I use it or not, it's nice to have options.
 
timselectric said:
SBU is the mode I run in. But, if there's a big storm system coming. I'll switch to SUB, to save the batteries for the possible outage coming. As soon as the storm clears, I switch back to SBU.


Part of the reason I chose this inverter was for this feature. Whether I use it or not, it's nice to have options.
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not an option anymore when it draws that much idle power. if you find it an option, i'm sure most of users wont see it as an option when it draws that much of power. you must be living somewhere where electricity is cheap
 
abhelou said:
not an option anymore when it draws that much idle power. if you find it an option, i'm sure most of users wont see it as an option when it draws that much of power. you must be living somewhere where electricity is cheap
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Not too expensive.
$ 0.17 kwh
But, it's a rarely used option.
If I was planning on SUB being the primary function, I might think differently. But, I still think that it's cheaper than trying to add battery to a grid tied system.
 
timselectric said:
Not too expensive.
$ 0.17 kwh
But, it's a rarely used option.
If I was planning on SUB being the primary function, I might think differently. But, I still think that it's cheaper than trying to add battery to a grid tied system.
Click to expand...
for people who need this feature as priority, it is a disappointment. it is a draw of around 300kwh per month. poor growatt
 
abhelou said:
for people who need this feature as priority, it is a disappointment. it is a draw of around 300kwh per month. poor growatt
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What?!

1 amp x 120 volts = 120 watts.
120 watts x 24 hours = 2880 watthours.
2880 watthours x 30 days = 86400 watthours.

Also known as 86.4 kWh. Per month.

My grid electric costs $0.10 per kWh.
So... This horrible, nasty standby consumption costs about $8 a month.

That's just the cost of using this particular inverter in this mode.

Thanks for bringing this to the attention of the community.
 
It's a good mode for someone to get started on their system. Just add solar panels and you are already saving money. Then add batteries as the budget allows. I would never consider this mode as a permanent solution.
But, moving all but 2 amps to solar. For this inexpensive price. Is a big step in the right direction.
Everyone needs to find what works best for them. This was perfect for me.
 
TomC4306 said:
That's just the cost of using this particular inverter in this mode.
Click to expand...
Plus there’s the simple fact that any unit has idle power consumption when not connected to grid.
The ken’n’barbie-sized MPP 1012LV-MK has been metered as low as 24? watts and as high as 38W. (I’m unclear why that varies). My point is that’s the ‘cost’ of running the equipment- yes, the same way you view it. Except that the cost is not a monthly fee like the grid, it’s just the overhead needed to run the equipment that you need to plan for up front.
The cost of using the grid is in dollars and you can’t just turn that stuff off like you can your inverter.

FWIW the Reliable/QZRELB 2000W high frequency inverter I ran for a few weeks was 11W. If one is stressed out about idle consumption there’s an inexpensive way to avoid medication.
 
mrzed001 said:
It is normal, because in this way it makes it sure not to BACKFEED to the grid.
Yes, it could. And in many places it is not allowed.
So it enables a little bit from utility to flow through ... just to be safe.

You can buy Online double conversion units from MPP Solar.
There the AC is converted to DC + DC from PV + DC from battery -> and a DC/AC inverter makes your own perfect sine wave.
There is no backfeed, because of the double conversion. But it costs you about 5% loss in the double conversion.
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poor design then, maybe they could have done it better as other manufacturer has done it. this inverter is supposed to reduce electricity bill
 
abhelou said:
this inverter is supposed to reduce electricity bill
Click to expand...
No, it’s supposed to safely function as an AIO unit processing grid power and solar power. The savings come from appropriate use of the device.
 
abhelou said:
poor design then, maybe they could have done it better as other manufacturer has done it. this inverter is supposed to reduce electricity bill
Click to expand...
It does reduce your electricity bill.
By the total amount, minus 2 amps.
Assuming that you are producing enough to cover all of it.
 
abhelou said:
poor design then, maybe they could have done it better as other manufacturer has done it. this inverter is supposed to reduce electricity bill
Click to expand...

The "well designed" Victron works in the same way :D

Victron3.jpg

Also every inverter needs power to run itself.
Like your TV does. If you do not need it, shut it down

There is no "other manufacturer" who can do it with 0W self consumption :ROFLMAO:
 
mrzed001 said:
The "well designed" Victron works in the same way :D

View attachment 94429

Also every inverter needs power to run itself.
Like your TV does. If you do not need it, shut it down

There is no "other manufacturer" who can do it with 0W self consumption :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
there is other manufacturer, i didn't say 0w, but they have done it for much less consumption. poor design for poor growatt
 
abhelou said:
there is other manufacturer, i didn't say 0w, but they have done it for much less consumption. poor design for poor growatt
Click to expand...

Not really.
There are some inverters that have less self consumption. Like small stupid ali inverters and car inverters.
But this is more like the result of missing protections.
Like no galvanic isolation from battery to AC.
So your battery's terminals can have lethal AC current present.
 
steka said:
Hello Friends,

I live in Lebanon where electricity is basically inexistent ! My brother bought Growatt SPF 5000 ES (mppt range starts at 120v), it comes with a very nice option SUB, where the utility will provide the rest of your consumption if solar is not enough. Following my brother good experience with solar energy I bought growatt spf 3000tl hvm-24. I didn't get the new model (like my brother) since I have very limited space for solar panels and the mppt range of model that I bought the starts from 30v.
I did a lot of research and I couldn't find any inverter with sub option with low range mppt voltage. I was wondering if somebody can help me out by pointing to a brand that have these 2 qualities. Choices are somehow limited in Lebanon, we have the brands growatt, must, sako, sorotec and of course unknown chinese brands). Also another thing I didn't like about growatt spf 3000tl that if my batteries are full or near full, the energy provided from solar panel will be low so the battery will contribute to the load and discharge even if the is a lot of sun outside, the only way to fully benefit from solar is to put a big load on the inverter, so solar will kick in fully.

Thank you,
Regards,
SK
Click to expand...
Not sure if you have found a solution. MPP Solar PIP4024MT starts at 60v PV, and has the SUB mode. I just ordered one, 230v and awaiting delivery.
 
I know this is a very old topic but I just wanted to reply to @abhelou as this might be helpful.

You're missing the power factor in your calculation. Check using a watt meter. The power factor will be ~0.1 or 0.2 in the inverter idle mode.

Power = volts x amp x power factor
= 220 x 2 x 0.1 = 44 watt
 
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